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12-16-2015, 10:32 PM   #1
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Pitch and Roll along with Magnetic Heading?

I'm planning on getting a K3-II in the near future and was trying to find out if the pitch and roll information were recorded in the PEF/DNG or EXIF data. It's not a huge thing, but for automated panorama reconstruction and astrophotography having that information along with the file allows for some neat tricks. (pre allignment for point matching, and displaying a star chart respectively)

I assume that the heading displayed is reasonably independent of roll and pitch, and they are generating a full attitude and heading solution?

12-17-2015, 01:52 AM   #2
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Yes, pitch and roll angles are included in the exif of both the K5IIs and the K-3:

$ exiftool K52S3445.DNG | grep Pitch
Pitch Angle : 36.5
j$ exiftool K52S3445.DNG | grep Roll
Roll Angle : 4.5

36.5 is the angle from horizontal subtended to comet C/2014 S2 from my yard.

Jack
12-17-2015, 01:22 PM   #3
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As for heading, that is only available in the exif when using either the O-GPS addon or a K3II with gps enabled. But I believe it is recorded as true not magnetic heading.
12-17-2015, 04:19 PM   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by jbinpg Quote
As for heading, that is only available in the exif when using either the O-GPS addon or a K3II with gps enabled. But I believe it is recorded as true not magnetic heading.
Here's what the exif on that point showed in my DNGs from the camera; I didn't see an option anywhere to change to mag north, and note the absence of declination:

[EXIF] GPS Speed Ref : km/h
[EXIF] GPS Speed : 0.13
[EXIF] GPS Track Ref : True North
[EXIF] GPS Track : 163.87
[EXIF] GPS Img Direction Ref : True North
[EXIF] GPS Img Direction : 299.43


BTW, impressive precision, if not necessarily accuracy.

01-09-2016, 09:39 AM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by Oakland Rob Quote
Here's what the exif on that point showed in my DNGs from the camera; I didn't see an option anywhere to change to mag north, and note the absence of declination:

[EXIF] GPS Speed Ref : km/h
[EXIF] GPS Speed : 0.13
[EXIF] GPS Track Ref : True North
[EXIF] GPS Track : 163.87
[EXIF] GPS Img Direction Ref : True North
[EXIF] GPS Img Direction : 299.43


BTW, impressive precision, if not necessarily accuracy.
Rob, can you explain how to understand these figures?

Also, I notice the coordinates in my EXIF use the comma to separate whole degrees rather than the more common decimal. When I try to paste these coordinates into Google Earth, I need to manually replace the commas with decimals. Do you know if there is a way to adjust this setting?

thanks in advance!
01-10-2016, 11:37 AM   #6
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First, know that the actual data in the file is in hex. Jack and I both used exiftool to extract that info, and exiftool then categorizes and presents that info in more easily read format. Getting a number like 56,21 instead of 56.21 is probably a result of using something odd to extract the GPS data, if that's what you're talking about. "Decimals" is ambiguous since those are numbers; decimal marks or decimal points must be what you're referring to. It's most common in navigation to use a period for the decimal mark, like 56.21. But some countries use commas to separate, as in for example currency, like €56,21. So if you were to use some software from a country that uses commas instead of periods you might get the result you seem to be mentioning, although usually with nav people stick to the period in decimals.

Second, you mentioned to separate whole degrees, which is kinda confusing since a whole degree is just a two or one digit number; do you mean separating degrees of latitude from degrees of longitude? Some examples would really help.

By default, GPS data in many cameras is generally recorded in degrees, minutes and seconds. Like this: "37 38' 32.52" N, 122 8' 54.06" W." The degrees would NOT have decimal marks or points because degrees are being divided into minutes, and minutes into seconds and decimal fractions of seconds. That coordinate could be expressed in many ways equivalently (and even in a different coordinate system, thus:

QuoteQuote:
Position Type LatLon
Degrees Lat Long 37.6423667°, -122.1483500°
Degrees Minutes 37°38.54200', -122°08.90100'
Degrees Minutes Seconds 37°38'32.5200", -122°08'54.0600"

Other coordinate systems:
UTM 10S 575134mE 4166477mN
MGRS 10SEG7513466477
Grid North 0.5°
GARS 116LR45
Maidenhead CM87WP24EE70
GEOREF DJNH51093854
But without an example I can't tell what you got. I don't believe cameras give you the choice of how coordinates are recorded, but software often does. Lightroom uses degree-minute-second, and I don't think you can change it. It also hides the fractions of seconds.

The info I listed is probably from both the GPS recorder and the camera's compass, if it has one. The "track ref" is a reference to the use of true north as a direction, not magnetic north. Same with the image direction, which is which way the camera is pointed, as opposed to the track, which is the direction I'm walking. the degrees are simply the more precise way of expressing direction than cardinal points, like south by southwest. Same for speed. This would be the speed averaged; I wasn't walking when I took the shot.

There are programs that will take a photo and paste the coordinates into Google Earth or other mapping programs, like Jeffrey Friedl's geocoding plugin for Lr (it can kick you to Google Earth, Apple Maps, or Graphic Converter or HoudahGeo on the Mac. And probably many many more.

BTW, that's Hayward Regional Shoreline in the coordinates, in the west east bay.
01-11-2016, 12:23 AM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by jbinpg Quote
Yes, pitch and roll angles are included in the exif of both the K5IIs and the K-3:

$ exiftool K52S3445.DNG | grep Pitch
Pitch Angle : 36.5
j$ exiftool K52S3445.DNG | grep Roll
Roll Angle : 4.5

36.5 is the angle from horizontal subtended to comet C/2014 S2 from my yard.

Jack
Thanks for the reply. That's exactly what I was hoping. I wouldn't trust canon or nikon to include the data on sub 2k bodies even if they collected it. Approximate starting solutions for camera position and orientation make panorama creation and photogrametry so much easier.
01-11-2016, 12:47 PM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by Oakland Rob Quote
First, know that the actual data in the file is in hex. Jack and I both used exiftool to extract that info, and exiftool then categorizes and presents that info in more easily read format. Getting a number like 56,21 instead of 56.21 is probably a result of using something odd to extract the GPS data, if that's what you're talking about. "Decimals" is ambiguous since those are numbers; decimal marks or decimal points must be what you're referring to. It's most common in navigation to use a period for the decimal mark, like 56.21. But some countries use commas to separate, as in for example currency, like €56,21. So if you were to use some software from a country that uses commas instead of periods you might get the result you seem to be mentioning, although usually with nav people stick to the period in decimals.

Second, you mentioned to separate whole degrees, which is kinda confusing since a whole degree is just a two or one digit number; do you mean separating degrees of latitude from degrees of longitude? Some examples would really help.

By default, GPS data in many cameras is generally recorded in degrees, minutes and seconds. Like this: "37 38' 32.52" N, 122 8' 54.06" W." The degrees would NOT have decimal marks or points because degrees are being divided into minutes, and minutes into seconds and decimal fractions of seconds. That coordinate could be expressed in many ways equivalently (and even in a different coordinate system, thus:



But without an example I can't tell what you got. I don't believe cameras give you the choice of how coordinates are recorded, but software often does. Lightroom uses degree-minute-second, and I don't think you can change it. It also hides the fractions of seconds.

The info I listed is probably from both the GPS recorder and the camera's compass, if it has one. The "track ref" is a reference to the use of true north as a direction, not magnetic north. Same with the image direction, which is which way the camera is pointed, as opposed to the track, which is the direction I'm walking. the degrees are simply the more precise way of expressing direction than cardinal points, like south by southwest. Same for speed. This would be the speed averaged; I wasn't walking when I took the shot.

There are programs that will take a photo and paste the coordinates into Google Earth or other mapping programs, like Jeffrey Friedl's geocoding plugin for Lr (it can kick you to Google Earth, Apple Maps, or Graphic Converter or HoudahGeo on the Mac. And probably many many more.

BTW, that's Hayward Regional Shoreline in the coordinates, in the west east bay.
Rob, thanks for this comprehensive reply and this topic is much more complex than my fairly limited application of it, which could be causing me the issue.
When I open my images in Adobe Bridge, in the EXIF under "GPS", I am seeing:

Latitude 37,49.169N
Longitude 122,8.9734W

I was referring to those commas after the 37 and 122 and wondering if there is some setting to show them in another form that can be used directly to paste into Google Earth or The Photographer's Ephemeris, which is how I would like to use them. As such, they cannot be read.

thanks

01-12-2016, 06:14 AM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by mikeSF Quote
Rob, thanks for this comprehensive reply and this topic is much more complex than my fairly limited application of it, which could be causing me the issue.
When I open my images in Adobe Bridge, in the EXIF under "GPS", I am seeing:

Latitude 37,49.169N
Longitude 122,8.9734W

I was referring to those commas after the 37 and 122 and wondering if there is some setting to show them in another form that can be used directly to paste into Google Earth or The Photographer's Ephemeris, which is how I would like to use them. As such, they cannot be read.

thanks
From what I've read adobe really likes to keep things in degrees and decimal minutes, and your best bet is to find a plugin that provides an alternate exif or coordinate/map display. If you can provide a direct copy/paste of the output from adobe and don't mind 2 copy paste operations I'll see if I can make up a minimalist javascript converter that will convert to decimal degrees and URLs for Google maps,earth,and photographer's ephemeris.
01-12-2016, 11:05 AM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by mikeSF Quote
Rob, thanks for this comprehensive reply and this topic is much more complex than my fairly limited application of it, which could be causing me the issue.
When I open my images in Adobe Bridge, in the EXIF under "GPS", I am seeing:

Latitude 37,49.169N
Longitude 122,8.9734W

I was referring to those commas after the 37 and 122 and wondering if there is some setting to show them in another form that can be used directly to paste into Google Earth or The Photographer's Ephemeris, which is how I would like to use them. As such, they cannot be read.

thanks
As rszasz noted, that's a comma, not a decimal mark. Note the space. It's 37 degrees, 49.169 minutes north, and 122 degrees, 8.9734 west.

If you have exiftool, you can use it to write out a list of GPS coordinates of a directory/folder as a text file with this command:

exiftool -filename -gpslatitude -gpslongitude -n -T [DIR/FOLDER where images are] > GPS.text

The -n tells exiftool to write as decimal degrees. If you want one file, just include the file and its path, and if you want the results in the Terminal or whatever you're using to run it, just omit the : > GPS.text part.

If you don't use exiftool, you can copy the coordinates from the command File>File info... in Bridge; it will be in the format degrees-minutes-seconds, which Google can read (but like the metadata window requires two copy-paste operations). Or copy from the Location pane in Lr; it will copy in one step and Google Maps (and I assume Earth) can read those coordinates.

Bridge should really change that formatting; it's rather lame.

EDIT: go to this site if you wanna complain to Adobe about it: http://feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family/topics/non-standard-gps-coord...e-bridge?rfm=1

Last edited by Oakland Rob; 01-12-2016 at 11:16 AM.
01-12-2016, 08:38 PM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by rszasz Quote
From what I've read adobe really likes to keep things in degrees and decimal minutes, and your best bet is to find a plugin that provides an alternate exif or coordinate/map display. If you can provide a direct copy/paste of the output from adobe and don't mind 2 copy paste operations I'll see if I can make up a minimalist javascript converter that will convert to decimal degrees and URLs for Google maps,earth,and photographer's ephemeris.
i wish it were something easier naturally but though i appreciate the offer, this may have to reside in the "i can't do anything with those darn coordinates" file for me.
thanks!

---------- Post added 01-12-2016 at 07:44 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Oakland Rob Quote
As rszasz noted, that's a comma, not a decimal mark. Note the space. It's 37 degrees, 49.169 minutes north, and 122 degrees, 8.9734 west.

If you have exiftool, you can use it to write out a list of GPS coordinates of a directory/folder as a text file with this command:

exiftool -filename -gpslatitude -gpslongitude -n -T [DIR/FOLDER where images are] > GPS.text

The -n tells exiftool to write as decimal degrees. If you want one file, just include the file and its path, and if you want the results in the Terminal or whatever you're using to run it, just omit the : > GPS.text part.

If you don't use exiftool, you can copy the coordinates from the command File>File info... in Bridge; it will be in the format degrees-minutes-seconds, which Google can read (but like the metadata window requires two copy-paste operations). Or copy from the Location pane in Lr; it will copy in one step and Google Maps (and I assume Earth) can read those coordinates.

Bridge should really change that formatting; it's rather lame.

EDIT: go to this site if you wanna complain to Adobe about it: Bridge: Non-standard GPS coordinates
hmm, thanks but this is confusing to me as well. thx for the adobe feedback link - i will at least throw in a vote.
When you say Google can read the degrees-minutes-seconds format, what do you mean? How do I change: "Latitude 37,49.169N
Longitude 122,8.9734W" into something Google Earth will accept?

thanks
01-13-2016, 07:25 AM   #12
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If you don't mind hitting the ol' calculator, you can just take the number after the comma in each case (decimal minutes), divide by 60 and add the result to the number of degrees. Of course this would be pretty tedious for more than one or two pictures at a time, but it works, and Google then understands it.

So in the example, it's 37 + (49.169 / 60) North and 122 + (8.9734 / 60) West.

37.81948N,122.14956W

I don't know if Google Earth takes that, but online Google search certainly does -- it puts this spot near Moraga.
01-13-2016, 09:36 AM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by mikeSF Quote
i wish it were something easier naturally but though i appreciate the offer, this may have to reside in the "i can't do anything with those darn coordinates" file for me.
thanks!

---------- Post added 01-12-2016 at 07:44 PM ----------



hmm, thanks but this is confusing to me as well. thx for the adobe feedback link - i will at least throw in a vote.
When you say Google can read the degrees-minutes-seconds format, what do you mean? How do I change: "Latitude 37,49.169N
Longitude 122,8.9734W" into something Google Earth will accept?

thanks
There are tons of web sites that will convert most GPS coordinate systems.

The easiest way, though, it to just take the phrase above, remove the words and the commas, so you get : 37 49.169N 122 8.9734W. Paste that in Google Maps or Earth and it'll take you to Pinehurst Road.

That's degrees (37 degrees and 122 degrees), and decimal minutes (49.169). Degrees-minutes-seconds would be 37degrees 49minutes 10.14 seconds. It's a question of making minutes into a decimal fraction, or the seconds. In nav, everything started in 360 degrees, 60 minutes, and 60 seconds, since it is based on a circle, like time on a clock, and is easily factored. But these days the seconds and/or the minutes often get broken down into the base 10 system, or decimals.1.69
01-13-2016, 01:03 PM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by Oakland Rob Quote
There are tons of web sites that will convert most GPS coordinate systems.

The easiest way, though, it to just take the phrase above, remove the words and the commas, so you get : 37 49.169N 122 8.9734W. Paste that in Google Maps or Earth and it'll take you to Pinehurst Road.

That's degrees (37 degrees and 122 degrees), and decimal minutes (49.169). Degrees-minutes-seconds would be 37degrees 49minutes 10.14 seconds. It's a question of making minutes into a decimal fraction, or the seconds. In nav, everything started in 360 degrees, 60 minutes, and 60 seconds, since it is based on a circle, like time on a clock, and is easily factored. But these days the seconds and/or the minutes often get broken down into the base 10 system, or decimals.1.69
awesome, this is some logic i can apply and not too much more trouble. thanks for that help!

---------- Post added 01-13-2016 at 12:05 PM ----------

here is the spot on Pinehurst road:

From the Forest Moon of Endor
01-14-2016, 10:58 AM   #15
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BTW, for those not using Pentax GPS solutions, check out gps4cam for use with mobile devices and geocoding. It's the easiest to use by far.

And here's the bridge at the forest of endor. Rather hard to get decent GPS accuracy in these trees, no?

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