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01-21-2016, 02:26 PM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by Qwntm Quote
The LENSES are the main problem. Compare the DA*16-50 to the FA 24-70 Tamron/Pentax. Or the DA* 50-135 to any of the 70-200's.
You do realize, don't you, that you are instigating, for the umpteenth time, the argument that on FF an f4 lens will yield the performance obtained by an f2.8 lens on APS-c

01-21-2016, 02:50 PM   #32
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In this case too, the DA* lenses are smaller, but the benefits of a larger sensor are lost.
01-21-2016, 04:03 PM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by bxf Quote
You do realize, don't you, that you are instigating, for the umpteenth time, the argument that on FF an f4 lens will yield the performance obtained by an f2.8 lens on APS-c


Yes and no...


It's still letting in F2.8 amount of light, it's not an F4 lens.


Depth of field is the only issue where it's more like an F4...


Again, the theory here is way more compelling than the reality!

---------- Post added 01-21-16 at 04:05 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Surovi Quote
In this case too, the DA* lenses are smaller, but the benefits of a larger sensor are lost.

Everything's a compromise. Just make sure those obscure "benefits" of the FF are worth the very real penalties.
01-21-2016, 05:59 PM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by Qwntm Quote


It's still letting in F2.8 amount of light, it's not an F4 lens.

It is not.

Shoot at f4 and your FF photo is now 50% too dark.

01-21-2016, 06:10 PM - 1 Like   #35
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I'm still waiting for a gutsy purveyor of 2828mm sensors: no more rotating the camera for a shot and thanks but I'll crop later. I'd expect nearly every DA lens to manage 28mm on a side.. heck maybe even 30
01-23-2016, 09:38 PM - 1 Like   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
It is not.

Shoot at f4 and your FF photo is now 50% too dark.


I'm not sure what your trying to say, but in terms of absolute exposure value, F4 is F4 regardless if it's a Pentax Q, a M4/3, APS-c, FF, Medium Format, or Large format lens. Just as F2.8 is F2.8.


If it were not, nobodies 3rd party light meters would work! Buy a Sekonik light meter and if the exposure is F4 at iso 100 at 1/60th of a second, that's the exposure. PERIOD. It's the same on a q, m4/3, APS-c, Medium format, or large format camera.


Or shoot a pentax Q right next to a Wisner 4x5 film camera. If the exposure is f4 at 100 iso at 1/60th of a second, you set the Q and the Wisner to the same settings. The exposure is the exposure for all formats and lenses.
01-23-2016, 09:45 PM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by Qwntm Quote
I'm not sure what your trying to say, but in terms of absolute exposure value, F4 is F4 regardless if it's a Pentax Q, a M4/3, APS-c, FF, Medium Format, or Large format lens. Just as F2.8 is F2.8.


If it were not, nobodies 3rd party light meters would work! Buy a Sekonik light meter and if the exposure is F4 at iso 100 at 1/60th of a second, that's the exposure. PERIOD. It's the same on a q, m4/3, APS-c, Medium format, or large format camera.


Or shoot a pentax Q right next to a Wisner 4x5 film camera. If the exposure is f4 at 100 iso at 1/60th of a second, you set the Q and the Wisner to the same settings. The exposure is the exposure for all formats and lenses.
+1, that's my understanding...
01-23-2016, 09:46 PM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by jimr-pdx Quote
I'm still waiting for a gutsy purveyor of 2828mm sensors: no more rotating the camera for a shot and thanks but I'll crop later. I'd expect nearly every DA lens to manage 28mm on a side.. heck maybe even 30


But nobody will do that because nobody else has done it.


There is only 1 totally APS-c based pro level system, and that's Fuji AND it's mirrorless. Pentax could have done something unique and made a complete pro based APS-c DSLR system, a true Fuji alternative which no one else has or has done, but NOOOOO, they had to go and make something every other company makes too...


Why have vision and innovate when you can just show up years late with the same old, same old. Just sayin'

01-23-2016, 09:51 PM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by Qwntm Quote
But nobody will do that because nobody else has done it.
Time to pick up the NX fabrication shops & tech as part of that 10-years-gone 'partnership' with Samsung
Clearly it will take a startup to break the mold, like the Light camera is trying to do (though with already-common sensors. Even them..)
01-23-2016, 10:15 PM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by Qwntm Quote
But nobody will do that because nobody else has done it.


There is only 1 totally APS-c based pro level system, and that's Fuji AND it's mirrorless. Pentax could have done something unique and made a complete pro based APS-c DSLR system, a true Fuji alternative which no one else has or has done, but NOOOOO, they had to go and make something every other company makes too...


Why have vision and innovate when you can just show up years late with the same old, same old. Just sayin'
What make the Fuji pro and the Pentax K-3ii not?
01-23-2016, 10:27 PM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by Qwntm Quote
But nobody will do that because nobody else has done it.


There is only 1 totally APS-c based pro level system, and that's Fuji AND it's mirrorless. Pentax could have done something unique and made a complete pro based APS-c DSLR system, a true Fuji alternative which no one else has or has done, but NOOOOO, they had to go and make something every other company makes too...


Why have vision and innovate when you can just show up years late with the same old, same old. Just sayin'
Like John, I'm not quite understanding this.

For example, the Nikon D300 has been long considered the epitome of a "pro" APS-C DSLR.

And the Pentax K-3 is certainly just as durable and capable (at the very least) as the Fuji X-T1, and has a line of "designed for APS-C" lenses, as well as lenses that cover the FF image circle.

And, just like Pentax, Fuji does not have a "pro-level" service network.

Last edited by luftfluss; 01-23-2016 at 10:32 PM.
01-23-2016, 11:05 PM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by Qwntm Quote
But nobody will do that because nobody else has done it.


There is only 1 totally APS-c based pro level system, and that's Fuji AND it's mirrorless. Pentax could have done something unique and made a complete pro based APS-c DSLR system, a true Fuji alternative which no one else has or has done, but NOOOOO, they had to go and make something every other company makes too...


Why have vision and innovate when you can just show up years late with the same old, same old. Just sayin'
After all the long wait, finally The FF can do things no other FF can do. Wait for the official announcement. As far as Fuji being Pro level. I agree that Fuji makes fine bodies and lenses. But being the only pro level APSc, I am not sure if that is entirely true. Although Pentax lacks in the full frame lens department, they perhaps have the most complete APSc lens line up. As far as APSc bodies, Pentax is just as good as any of the big boys.

It is unfortunate that Pentax had to "wonder a bit" under its previous ownership. Hopefully it not too late for Ricoh to save the day.
01-24-2016, 02:45 AM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by johnmflores Quote
What make the Fuji pro and the Pentax K-3ii not?
QuoteOriginally posted by btnapa Quote
Although Pentax lacks in the full frame lens department, they perhaps have the most complete APSc lens line up. As far as APSc bodies, Pentax is just as good as any of the big boys.
I too would like to know what makes the K-3/II a non-pro camera? Is it cost, alone? Is it the mere fact that it's not FF? ???

Back in 2012, I had $5000 to spend on a new DSLR camera system. That could've even meant only one [zoom] lens with a body. I was going for low-light and best image quality. I can't remember if FF was priced within that bracket at that time, but I looked at many brands of cameras - certainly Canon and Nikons were included in that 'research'.

In 2012 that camera system ended up being the Pentax K-30 (I wanted the newer technology, over the K-5). At least to my eyes, that camera produced the best quality images out of all of the competition I looked at within that spending bracket. And to boot, it was cheap enough that I could even get several lenses with that $5000 spending bracket! I would've spent $4000+/- on a camera body and $1000+/- for one lens if I had to, for the best image quality. Yet that turned out to be Pentax. Again, that's at least to my eyes.

Now although I didn't consider the K-30 to be a 'pro' camera - in large part at least, because it didn't have separate AE-L and AF-L buttons -- the K-3 DOES have separate buttons for those functions, and more. So why would the Pentax K-3/II not be considered a pro level camera? Where is that specific line in the sand?
01-24-2016, 03:39 AM - 1 Like   #44
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The biggest thing that makes no Pentax a "professional" camera at this point is the lack of support. If you have gear that needs service, the turn around time is pretty slow. Rental companies are few and far between. There is, I think, some sort of Professional Service program that is available if you get enough of your income from photography, but for everyone else, if you drop your camera and 50-135, you will wait 4 to 6 weeks, like everyone else for Precision to get your gear back to you.

Of course, that doesn't mean you can't shoot professionally with a Pentax camera -- you can and many do, but the road is just a little harder than with some other brands. (not sure why the D500 and 7D MK II aren't professional APS-C cameras though)...
01-24-2016, 07:11 AM   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by Qwntm Quote
I'm not sure what your trying to say, but in terms of absolute exposure value, F4 is F4 regardless if it's a Pentax Q, a M4/3, APS-c, FF, Medium Format, or Large format lens. Just as F2.8 is F2.8.
I meant that the FF at f4 does not expose as the APS-C does at f2.8, Qwntm, but I can see now that's not what you meant at all - my bad!
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