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01-24-2016, 03:17 PM   #1
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Pixel shifting

I tried pixel shifting today on my model Pullman train. I think the pictures came out great with no pp at all, but I can't see a difference in them!

1 is normal and 2 is pixel shifted, the camera said it was processing the images, but they look the same to me, any comments?

Tuggie76


Last edited by tuggie76; 06-18-2016 at 02:04 PM.
01-24-2016, 04:18 PM   #2
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Very hard to see any difference at the resolution of those images and they have only a small in-focus area which is where you would detect the differences. I guess you've looked a lot at the full sized originals.
Things like the detail in the monogram on the front of the train should be clearly better when looked at with some magnification.
I assume that the second shot really was shot in PS mode, it's pretty obvious as the camera takes quite while to complete the process.
Try a few more, with more in focus and with a lot of fine detail which should help show the differences in normal and PS.

Cheers,
Terry
01-24-2016, 04:20 PM   #3
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Hi. Yes, similar to what tduell said, post a small cropped area at 100% so we can see the pixels. How did you process the RAWs?

I'm thinking of getting a K-3 II, so am currently trying to figure out how I'll use pixel shift RAWs in Linux. (I currently use Darktable.)
01-24-2016, 04:45 PM   #4
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Shooting model trains is a good application for pixel shifting. Just remember that raw processors that currently support pixel shifting are limited in functionality. I've found the in-camera engine to be quite good.


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01-24-2016, 05:08 PM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by DavidOliver Quote
Hi. Yes, similar to what tduell said, post a small cropped area at 100% so we can see the pixels. How did you process the RAWs?

I'm thinking of getting a K-3 II, so am currently trying to figure out how I'll use pixel shift RAWs in Linux. (I currently use Darktable.)
I use Linux and Darktable (wonderful bit of FOSS).
I use dcrawps to process PS raw files. Easy to build, but the source, as provided, builds and installs the binary 'dcraw'. I had to make a few changes so it built 'dcrawps' instead.
Get in touch with me directly if you need any help in doing that.

Cheers,
Terry
01-24-2016, 08:22 PM   #6
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There are a couple of current pixel shift threads. You may wish to check out https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/172-pentax-k-3/311865-pixel-shift-finicky.html
It has some pointers on using dcrawps which is a fork of Dave Coffin's dcraw code written by a PF user. dcrawps can decode and also repair movement artifacts in the Pentax pixel-shifted files.
01-25-2016, 06:47 AM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by DavidOliver Quote
Hi. Yes, similar to what tduell said, post a small cropped area at 100% so we can see the pixels. How did you process the RAWs?

I'm thinking of getting a K-3 II, so am currently trying to figure out how I'll use pixel shift RAWs in Linux. (I currently use Darktable.)
Here are the enlargements. I did no adjustments whatsoever, just downloaded them in LR5.

The manual said nothing about needing special processing, but maybe I need some advice on what is required. I've found the other thread and it seems to be more on how to remove a file from the 'stack', I'm not really sure why I wold want to do this.

How to do in camera processing? when I took the photos the camera said something like 'processing', so I assumed that was all that was needed, but again, I'm open to advise.

Thanks again.

Tuggie 76

Last edited by tuggie76; 06-18-2016 at 02:04 PM.
01-25-2016, 01:40 PM   #8
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I haven't read the other thread yet and I'm not up on Adobe RAW processing, but I suspect LR5 isn't using the additional pixel-shifted exposures and that it used only the first of the four.

This page has some guidance on processing Pentax's pixel-shifted RAWs. It's from October of last year, but maybe it still all applies. There's a section on "Adobe Camera Raw" - do you have access to that? It seems you need to drag the sharpness slider to "the low to mid 100s". It'd be interesting to see new crops if you do get a different result.

tduell: thanks - I may well do that when I've got the camera!

01-25-2016, 01:50 PM   #9
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I suppose you should apply the same sharpening to the non-PS RAW too, for a fair comparison.

I've done a very quick bit of searching, and it seems that LR5 uses ACR? If so, you could try the high amount of sharpening in LR5. Failing that, I suggest trying Pentax Digital Camera Utility.
01-25-2016, 06:03 PM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by Oldbayrunner Quote
I did some testing with mine and concluded both lightroom CC and Photoshop CC sharpening , even at 126%, were softer than using DCU 5.4 FS tool one notch left of center.
I can't find out how to sharpen an image in DCU5.4. I've even googled it, but nothing! A shove in the right direction would be appreciated.

Thanks

Tuggie76
01-26-2016, 02:18 AM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by DavidOliver Quote
I've done a very quick bit of searching, and it seems that LR5 uses ACR? If so, you could try the high amount of sharpening in LR5. Failing that, I suggest trying Pentax Digital Camera Utility.
For reference, the engine is the same between LR and ACR. Since LR4 the process version has been pv2012 (I don't know the ACR version equivalents), only the tools have progressed since then.

If the Pixel Shifting is anything like the raw-HDR of the K-3 where each image has been stored in the DNG separately, then not even the current LR6/ACR will be able to decode them. It'll only display and work with the 1st image stored in them. The last I saw, Adobe was 'investigating' them but there still has been no resolution on those.

So if that's the case with PixS, then LR still won't work for it. Which means like raw-HDR, the PixS (& therefore the K-3ii) would be of no use to me since I mainly use LR. I don't even think Capture One v9 can process either of those yet. So that means the only thing I like about the K-3ii is the addition of GPS.

Now - LR6's raw-HDR & raw-panorama (saved as DNG's) OTOH is of far more use to me, and just got much better with LR6.3. However, I know for a fact that Capture One v9 still doesn't recognize them. Although that may be more because of the raw searing hatred by many Capture One proponents of Adobe and therefore of DNG.

Last edited by Hoggy; 01-26-2016 at 03:26 AM.
01-26-2016, 03:33 AM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by tuggie76 Quote
I can't find out how to sharpen an image in DCU5.4. I've even googled it, but nothing! A shove in the right direction would be appreciated.

Did the page I linked to help at all? It says:

QuoteQuote:
By default, PDCU develops pixel-shifted RAW files without the extra level of detail that would be expected due to a low sharpness setting. To leverage the pixel shift resolution, select the file you want to work with and open the "Laboratory" view. In the upper-right corner of the screen, under "Custom Image", you will see a dropdown surrounding the icon of the very last slider (the sharpness slider). Select "FS" and adjust the slider.
Hoggy, thanks. My wife uses LR and Photoshop, though I use Darktable in Linux. She has a colour display issue actually, where colours in LR appear way off (too purple in the example I saw) but in Photoshop they're okay, so I need to look into that.
01-26-2016, 07:00 AM   #13
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DavidOliver;Did the page I linked to help at all? It says:

Thanks David, for some reason I didn't follow that link, but when I did it was very helpful.

I found a page that stated that pixel shifted files are 4x the size of regular files. Checking LR I found they all the images were the same size, this leads me to assume LR doesn't import them correctly. I have deleted them from my card so I can't import directly to DCU, but will retake and try as soon as I can.

Tuggie76

---------- Post added 01-26-16 at 09:06 AM ----------

O/k, I made myself late for work and took another image, all I can say is 'B****y hell!" what a difference. I loaded it directly to DCU and it all worked a treat. Unfortunately I don't have time to figure out how to save it and send as I don't want to get fired, well maybe.

Thanks for all your help.

Tuggie76
01-26-2016, 07:15 AM - 1 Like   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by tuggie76 Quote
Unfortunately I don't have time to figure out how to save it and send as I don't want to get fired, well maybe.
Pics or it didn't happen. Seriously, I'd be interested to see your 100% crop results when you have time.
01-26-2016, 08:03 AM   #15
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First off let me attempt to clear a couple of things with what I have noticed using both ACR and Lightroom with PS photos. I find both ACR 9.3 with Photoshop and Ligthroom CC 2015 with ACR 9.3 do work with Pixel shifted photos but the difference can easily go unnoticed. Normally using these programs when photos are opened they auto apply some sharpening, usually at least 25%. When PS photos are opened I notice the sharpening sliders are remaining at 0% so neither are applying any sharpening. The other difference is while sharpening is manually being applied usually noise and artifacts start to show around 40-50% depending on the exposure, and one has to play with radius, mask or noise in order to create a decent balance between sharpness and noise, with the PS photos one can get away with going to 100% without adjustments to other sliders as long as there isn't existing noise from using high ISO. Pixel Shifting to my knowledge isn't just about sharpening, If you are using kit lens opposed to an expensive prime the lens sharpen differences still may apply but in either case you can get away better sharpening with less effort. PS's other applications to my knowledge is about resolution and color, so I advise keeping that in mind also.

Tuggy, to answer your question re; DCU 5.4 once imported and you,ve gone to labratory in the row of sliders at the bottom is a circled S, click on that and change it to FS, then use the slider to adjust sharpness.

They will be 4 times the size in PS raw, usually over 100mb, but not using PS jpeg, around 24mb.

As far as the photos posted don't forget uploading to this web site noticeably softens ones photos so the true sharpness of the photo cannot be seen

Last edited by Oldbayrunner; 01-26-2016 at 08:12 AM.
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