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03-21-2016, 02:31 PM   #1
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K3 latest "tests" and a weird background ... and more questions - opinions please ?

I haven't been able to "test" my new K3 outside since I got it (bad weather, work, family ... etc ... ) and the "best" I could come up with is this shot of a sparrow in the backyard.
Taken at approximately 25 feet, fairly good light conditions, with a snowy cover (humidity) ...
I am a bit concerned with the seemingly "busy" background as shown in the cropped version of the shot.
The bird itself also seems not quite right. I've taken thousands of shots with the K5 in the past but this is different ...
Hopefully, the EXIF data are intact and I would appreciate any comment(s) on that shot.
Thanks !

https://www.flickr.com/photos/rdlphotos/shares/Pb8kg9
https://www.flickr.com/photos/rdlphotos/shares/5672WY

Also: one technical question: when I look at the file names for the K3 I noticed that when I set it up in camera as K3_ _ but it shows as " _ K3 _ _ " with this annoying "space bar" just before the K3 ... I didn't have this in the K5, i.e.: I could avoid (in a sense) the space before the K3 name .
What have I done wrong this time?


Last edited by jpzk; 03-21-2016 at 02:40 PM.
03-21-2016, 02:58 PM   #2
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QuoteOriginally posted by jpzk Quote
I haven't been able to "test" my new K3 outside since I got it (bad weather, work, family ... etc ... ) and the "best" I could come up with is this shot of a sparrow in the backyard.
Taken at approximately 25 feet, fairly good light conditions, with a snowy cover (humidity) ...
I am a bit concerned with the seemingly "busy" background as shown in the cropped version of the shot.
The bird itself also seems not quite right. I've taken thousands of shots with the K5 in the past but this is different ...
Hopefully, the EXIF data are intact and I would appreciate any comment(s) on that shot.
Thanks !

https://www.flickr.com/photos/rdlphotos/shares/Pb8kg9
https://www.flickr.com/photos/rdlphotos/shares/5672WY

Also: one technical question: when I look at the file names for the K3 I noticed that when I set it up in camera as K3_ _ but it shows as " _ K3 _ _ " with this annoying "space bar" just before the K3 ... I didn't have this in the K5, i.e.: I could avoid (in a sense) the space before the K3 name .
What have I done wrong this time?
_IMG indicates you have it set to AdobeRGB. As for the busy bokeh, it looks like you've cropped significantly which has enhanced an incorrect post processing sharpening technique. Your previous technique for sharpening K-5 files won't work with the K-3 and can lead to bad results.
03-21-2016, 03:10 PM   #3
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(edit: I typed too slowly... the post above covered the underscore!)

I will look at your sample images in a moment.

Concerning your technical question, the first underscore in the file name suggests that the camera is set to AdobeRGB color space. My K-3 II assigns the filename as "K3xxx" for images produced in the sRGB space and "_K3xxx" for images produced in the AdobeRGB space.

Check the following menu items:

- Setup (the 'wrench' tool), Menu 2, File Name, >

and

- Custom Settings, C3,20: Color Space.

I don't know whether the selection of color space would influence the display of the image on your monitor.

- Craig
03-21-2016, 03:15 PM   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by enoeske Quote
_IMG indicates you have it set to AdobeRGB. As for the busy bokeh, it looks like you've cropped significantly which has enhanced an incorrect post processing sharpening technique. Your previous technique for sharpening K-5 files won't work with the K-3 and can lead to bad results.
Thanks for the reply.
Should I then set it for sRGB like it used to be with the K5?
For the "busy" background ... I haven't done any sharpening at all and all the NR was OFF.

---------- Post added 03-21-16 at 06:20 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by c.a.m Quote
(edit: I typed too slowly... the post above covered the underscore!)

I will look at your sample images in a moment.

Concerning your technical question, the first underscore in the file name suggests that the camera is set to AdobeRGB color space. My K-3 II assigns the filename as "K3xxx" for images produced in the sRGB space and "_K3xxx" for images produced in the AdobeRGB space.

Check the following menu items:

- Setup (the 'wrench' tool), Menu 2, File Name, >

and

- Custom Settings, C3,20: Color Space.




I don't know whether the selection of color space would influence the display of the image on your monitor.

- Craig
Thanks !!
I've just set it for sRGB ... like it was for the K5.
I'll just have to see if this will show without the annoying space bar in front of the K3 _ _
Looking forward to your comment(s) on the sparrow shot.

03-21-2016, 04:09 PM   #5
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Based on a single image, I think it's difficult to diagnose the image or to say whether there is a problem. The sparrow was sitting against a background of fairly bright spots. The cedar doesn't look too far away from the sparrow, so an aperture of f/5.6 won't produce a soft out-of-focus background. It might be possible that the bird is slightly out of focus.

I see in the EXIF data: "High Contrast" and "Hard Sharpness". Are these the settings on your K-3?

Perhaps several more images will help to determine what's going on.

- Craig
03-21-2016, 04:16 PM   #6
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The "busy" background is really does look like a sharpening artefact on characteristic bokeh. I assume you're shooting in JPEG rather than RAW, in which case make sure that your in-camera sharpening settings really are set to zero and see how that affects things...
03-21-2016, 04:37 PM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by c.a.m Quote
Based on a single image, I think it's difficult to diagnose the image or to say whether there is a problem. The sparrow was sitting against a background of fairly bright spots. The cedar doesn't look too far away from the sparrow, so an aperture of f/5.6 won't produce a soft out-of-focus background. It might be possible that the bird is slightly out of focus.

I see in the EXIF data: "High Contrast" and "Hard Sharpness". Are these the settings on your K-3?

Perhaps several more images will help to determine what's going on.

- Craig
Hi again.

The bird is slightly out of focus, that I know.
At f5.6, as you mention, doesn't help much either ... better redo some more shots under different f-stops with this particular background. I wasn't really going for a "Bokeh" and I was just shooting randomly here.

As for the "High Contrast" and "Hard Sharpness", I actually never tweaked that: it must be the factory defaults ... ?
I should perhaps fix that as well while I'm at it.

Edit: The WB was set at "Bright" which itself has both high contrast and hard sharpness , so I switched to "natural" which is pretty much right in the middle of the spectrum in terms of adjustments of those two parameters.
As for the file naming ... it is fine now (no more space bar in front of the name with the last shot taken minutes ago) since I went sRGB.

Thanks ! One problem solved !

Last edited by jpzk; 03-21-2016 at 05:01 PM.
03-21-2016, 04:46 PM   #8
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I think it would be worth doing a RESET from the settings menu to ensure all the settings are back to normal. You may have inadvertently selected something, or maybe the camera was tested prior to shipping. Either way, a reset should bring everything back to normal ready for your next few tests.

03-21-2016, 05:06 PM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
The "busy" background is really does look like a sharpening artefact on characteristic bokeh. I assume you're shooting in JPEG rather than RAW, in which case make sure that your in-camera sharpening settings really are set to zero and see how that affects things...
I shoot RAW, always.
QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
I think it would be worth doing a RESET from the settings menu to ensure all the settings are back to normal. You may have inadvertently selected something, or maybe the camera was tested prior to shipping. Either way, a reset should bring everything back to normal ready for your next few tests.
See my previous post regarding the WB originally being set at "Bright" (not by me) and therefore having high contrast and hard sharpness.
So I am now back (that is what I have in the K5) to "Natural" WB and no tweaking of the contrast/sharpness nor anything else.
I'll do more shooting tomorrow and see what happens.

Thanks !

Last edited by jpzk; 03-21-2016 at 05:51 PM.
03-22-2016, 07:00 AM   #10
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Bright and natural isn't a white balance setting, and it shouldn't affect your raw files. Or that's what I understand it.

Last edited by taks; 03-22-2016 at 07:05 AM.
03-22-2016, 07:26 AM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by taks Quote
Bright and natural isn't a white balance setting, and it shouldn't affect your raw files. Or that's what I understand it.
Sorry, I did not give the proper info: it should be "custom image" (pages 56-57 in the user manual) from the four-way controller on the right, and NOT the WB as I mentioned !
you can then go into parameters which allow to "tweak" further .... that's my best explanation.
In there, you can adjust contrast and sharpness.

Do this apply to RAW files or does it not?

I think I should just reset everything to factory defaults and start all over again... !
03-22-2016, 07:36 AM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by jpzk Quote
Sorry, I did not give the proper info: it should be "custom image" (pages 56-57 in the user manual) from the four-way controller on the right, and NOT the WB as I mentioned !
you can then go into parameters which allow to "tweak" further .... that's my best explanation.
In there, you can adjust contrast and sharpness.

Do this apply to RAW files or does it not?

I think I should just reset everything to factory defaults and start all over again... !
White Balance does affect RAW images. The custom image parameters only affect JPEGs; however, these settings are stored within the RAW file for Pentax's own image processing software to pick up and apply by default, and I'm wondering if this is what's happening... Would I be right in guessing that you're using the bundled Pentax Digital Camera Utility to process your images?
03-22-2016, 08:14 AM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
White Balance does affect RAW images. The custom image parameters only affect JPEGs; however, these settings are stored within the RAW file for Pentax's own image processing software to pick up and apply by default, and I'm wondering if this is what's happening... Would I be right in guessing that you're using the bundled Pentax Digital Camera Utility to process your images?
Indeed ! You have guessed quite right !
I am using DCU5 that came with the K3 .... is this a possible cause of this "weirdness" ?

JP
03-22-2016, 09:11 AM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by jpzk Quote
Indeed ! You have guessed quite right !
I am using DCU5 that came with the K3 .... is this a possible cause of this "weirdness" ?

JP
Possibly...

If you had imported your RAW DNG (or PEF) file into different image processing software (such as Lightroom, RawTherapee etc.), that software would ignore any of the in-camera image settings, and simply load the raw image data along with the white balance information and various metadata. What you'd then see is a fairly flat-looking file that you can start work on. DCU5 works differently, in that it also reads the in-camera image settings as it loads the raw image data, and applies them in the same way that the camera would for a JPEG file (this is great if you want to replicate what the camera does internally for JPEGs).

Try loading one of those RAW images into DCU5 and then, in the "Custom Image" tab, make sure your settings look like those in the attached image - adjust them as necessary. Importantly, make sure you have no sharpening applied to begin with. See how that looks, and let us know?

EDIT: One more thing... do you have a filter fitted to your lens? If you do, try shooting with it removed. Occasionally, some UV filters can add strange effects to out-of-focus areas - particularly busy backgrounds such as grass and foliage. I've experienced this myself. I suspect that isn't the problem here, but for the purposes of testing and proving your camera is OK, let's minimise the variables
Attached Images
 

Last edited by BigMackCam; 03-22-2016 at 09:29 AM.
03-22-2016, 09:51 AM   #15
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I shoot jpeg, but have the utility soft that came with the camera installed on my computer hoping to learn shooting with raw.
A ton of info on this forum and lots to learn. Thank you so much.
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