[normhead]

They'll lose far more than one customer as long as their large, inferior dedicated flashes lack a supplement offering quality, small flash configurations such as the superior (non-pTTL) implementation on the K-3. I have no idea if or when the K-1 will be in my arsenal (we know very little at this point), but the lack of versatile flash implementation in the K-1 will certainly delay or ultimately nix the progression for me.

There are a lot of issues that could cost them customers, slow burst mode, no really low ISO mode, lack of D750 or Canon pro quality AF and tracking. It's being marketed as a field camera. I'm thinking that's a clue right there, as to how important flash in their thinking. Really they've produced a great field camera at a great price. I'm sure lots of folks who shoot other places besides fields who want a whole host of other features.

They have what they want from other manufacturers.

Now us guys who labour out in the fields have what we want. Don't begrudge us our happy moment.

I'm sure there are lots of Canon and Nikon guys asking "why can't Canon or Nikon make a camera like this?" Given market share, Pentax will pick up more guys who are into the "field camera concept" and don't care about flash at all, than they'll lose, from people who want better flash. So, I disagree. Being the best value for money, and the best feature set for landscape and nature, and it's tank like Pentax construction is what they needed to do. Adding cost with better flash would cost them more than it would save them. After all, if these guys who really need better flash, had any money, they'd already have a system dedicated to that use.

The fact that they don't means they think they'd like better flash, not that they'd actually pay for it,

---

Last edited by normhead; 04-13-2016 at 05:38 AM.

[beachgardener]

Bring on the K-4

[normhead]

Bring on the K-4

I was just wondering,the other day "when are they going to use the even numbers? And will they start at 2 and go up?"

[beachgardener]

I was thinking that the K-2 will be reserved for a second FF model

[Fcsnt54]

I was thinking that the K-2 will be reserved for a second FF model

Now that will get confusing for those that own the film camera version

[stevebrot]

Now that will get confusing for those that own the film camera version

That did not stop them from making a K-x and K-m


Steve

(The film cameras were K2, KX and KM...no hyphens...)

[Fcsnt54]

That did not stop them from making a K-x and K-m


Steve

(The film cameras were K2, KX and KM...no hyphens...)

good point

[loveisageless]

The only times I've used the on-board flash is to test new lenses when it is too dark outside to do so lol

[PALADIN85020]

Having an on-board flash on my K-3 is important to me. This last Saturday, I was the "official" photographer for one of my high school class reunions. Most of the shots I took using available light, but in some cases where it was too dark and I didn't want high-ISO noise, I simply popped up the flash and used it with great results. I sure didn't want to carry around a bulky hot-shoe flash unit just to have that capability. On-board flash is also useful for fill-flash when your subject is in the shade or bright sun where dark facial shadows detract from the photo. I can do without on-board GPS or wi-fi capability. I have the hot-shoe GPS unit, and it's a helluva lot lighter and smaller than a hot-shoe flash. If I want to use it, I can; it can be stowed in a shirt pocket.

FWIW, I'm a "semi-pro" photographer; I write articles and have authored a book, all illustrated with Pentax cameras. For most of these photos, I will grant that for ""pro" use, since they are "staged," no flash is necessary - most are taken with a tripod. For "semi" use, though, as mentioned above, that on-board flash is just the ticket, and I would prefer NOT to be without that resource. It's damn handy. As they say, it's better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it.

Will that affect my possible future purchase of a K-1? Probably not, as I strive for high-quality "pro" pictures. But I wish that they had figured out a way to incorporate an on-board flash. That K-1 purchase will in any event be well into the future, when prices have decreased and the inevitable bugs worked out. In the meantime, I'm very happy with the all-around capabilities of my K-3, and I love the extra lens reach that the APS-C crop format provides when desired. Who knows, maybe I could be seduced earlier with a K-1II that gives on-board flash utility. Are you listening, Ricoh-Pentax???

John

PENTAX : PENTAX Photo Gallery artist page

[clackers]

On-board flash is also useful for fill-flash when your subject is in the shade or bright sun where dark facial shadows detract from the photo. I can do without on-board GPS or wi-fi capability.

Yes, Paladin, I use the flash during the day more than at night, for exactly that reason.

I'm buying the K-1, so I'll just have to lug along a dedicated flash.

[RobA_Oz]

Yes, Paladin, I use the flash during the day more than at night, for exactly that reason.

The K-1 uses small LEDs for body illumination. I wonder when someone in Ricoh will notice that they're useful for subject illumination, as well, as phone makers have. Personally, I have more use for GPS and wifi, but fill flash is also handy to have, and LEDs don't have to take up as much space as a xenon tube does.

[ScooterMaxi Jim]

The K-1 uses small LEDs for body illumination. I wonder when someone in Ricoh will notice that they're useful for subject illumination, as well, as phone makers have. Personally, I have more use for GPS and wifi, but fill flash is also handy to have, and LEDs don't have to take up as much space as a xenon tube does.

Great point!

Of course, someone will make the comment that such a set-up will make the camera less "professional." Because professionals don't like utility, I suppose.

[totsmuyco]

Probably it would depend on how people would look at this LED illumination lights. I recall Tony Northrup considered this as a positive feature in his Pentax k-1 preview.

[panonski]

I think, Ricoh tried to do stuffs, and not to worry about anybody personal favorites... They just decided to do camera without flash, and with built in GPS, and it's a shoot from them... Maybe shoot in the dark, but I think many will buy K1, because of many others favs you can get out of this camera...

I'm a just one poor shooter who wants to keep gear smaller, because of price, and versatility of all situations... K1 has nothing what I need right now, because I can get from K3 so satisfied images,
and many of us wouldn't even notice the difference between most of the files, between two cameras... Sure, there is huge difference in certain areas, but just how much would these areas be usefull to me, is completely another question...

For now, I'm really satisfied with my K3, and very pleased with it's flash unit. I can easily get very pleased photos in dark places, and not even notice, I'm using just "pop up flash" instead of big one, even with difusor. Also used as a trigger to my pair of yong nuo 560 II in slave mode.

So, I can easily skip K1, and KII, and not feel any sorrow ....

[Rondec]

Having an on-board flash on my K-3 is important to me. This last Saturday, I was the "official" photographer for one of my high school class reunions. Most of the shots I took using available light, but in some cases where it was too dark and I didn't want high-ISO noise, I simply popped up the flash and used it with great results. I sure didn't want to carry around a bulky hot-shoe flash unit just to have that capability. On-board flash is also useful for fill-flash when your subject is in the shade or bright sun where dark facial shadows detract from the photo. I can do without on-board GPS or wi-fi capability. I have the hot-shoe GPS unit, and it's a helluva lot lighter and smaller than a hot-shoe flash. If I want to use it, I can; it can be stowed in a shirt pocket.

FWIW, I'm a "semi-pro" photographer; I write articles and have authored a book, all illustrated with Pentax cameras. For most of these photos, I will grant that for ""pro" use, since they are "staged," no flash is necessary - most are taken with a tripod. For "semi" use, though, as mentioned above, that on-board flash is just the ticket, and I would prefer NOT to be without that resource. It's damn handy. As they say, it's better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it.

Will that affect my possible future purchase of a K-1? Probably not, as I strive for high-quality "pro" pictures. But I wish that they had figured out a way to incorporate an on-board flash. That K-1 purchase will in any event be well into the future, when prices have decreased and the inevitable bugs worked out. In the meantime, I'm very happy with the all-around capabilities of my K-3, and I love the extra lens reach that the APS-C crop format provides when desired. Who knows, maybe I could be seduced earlier with a K-1II that gives on-board flash utility. Are you listening, Ricoh-Pentax???

John

PENTAX : PENTAX Photo Gallery artist page

I think this has been discussed quite a bit, but I think the feeling was that there wasn't room for both the astro tracer unit and the pop up flash in the K3. Pentax clearly felt that including the astro tracer (which also allows for GPS) was something that would separate their flagship from others on the market, as well as the pixel shift. Leaving the astro tracer out and putting a pop up flash, while pleasing a small number of people doesn't differentiate them from other brands.