K-3 mishap...

PALADIN85020 · 04-08-2016, 10:58 AM - **1 Like**

Yesterday, my K-3 just shut down, refused to take a picture, the upper LCD panel went crazy, and I couldn't turn it off!

Here's what happened. Yesterday, I took my K-3 in its usual soft carry case and put it in the trunk of my car. Outside temperature yesterday was in the low 90s in Phoenix. My granddaughter was in town, and I had intended to take some pictures of her standing in front of some of our old family homes. Taking the K-3 from its case, I turned it on and attempted to take a picture - it was on the green automatic setting. It seemed to focus normally, but when I pressed the go button, absolutely nothing happened. I tried again, with the same result. I switched to AV mode and tried again - still nothing. The top LCD panel was going crazy, and I could not turn the camera off. I pulled the battery and inserted a fresh one. Still no action when trying to activate the shutter. I finally got it turned off, put it back the case, and used a backup point-and-shoot to take the pictures I wanted.

Upon getting home, I took out my wayward K-3 to try to figure out what happened. Inside the house, out of direct sunlight, I turned it on. However, now I could see both LCD displays, which I could not view previously in direct harsh sunlight. On top, the indicator for the second slot memory card was blinking, and on the back, a message appeared that indicated something was wrong with the card in slot #2. I have set the camera's priorities to direct all shots to card 1, and the overflow to card 2.

Accordingly, I removed the card in slot 2 and re-inserted it. Suddenly things returned to normal. As a precaution, I re-formatted the card in slot 2 (which was already formatted and empty waiting for any overflow of card 1).

Apparently, even if card 2 was not being used, a problem with it will absolutely shut down the K-3. I did not know this, and could not find anything in the instructions or in aftermarket guides on the camera that described this particular anomaly. It may be that the camera was not making proper contact with the contact strips on the card, or the card did in fact have some sort of problem. I hope re-formatting it would guard against this possibility.

I wanted to let you all know of this occurrence in case something similar happens to you. My K-3 is now performing perfectly again. Have any of you had a similar problem?

John

PENTAX : PENTAX Photo Gallery artist page

**jatrax** · 04-08-2016, 11:32 AM - **1 Like**

Camera in the trunk in 90 degrees plus is (IMHO) not a good thing. We used to keep our gear in a styrofoam cooler in the car so it would not overheat.

No way to prove what happened but here is a theory: at the temp in the trunk the SD card expanded just enough to short out the memory bus.

Anyway, very glad all is back to normal.

pathdoc · 04-08-2016, 11:36 AM

Thank you for reporting this. Worth knowing if anyone with a two-SD camera has ever reported the same problem, and a potential in-the-field fix too.

Do please let us know if it happens again under different circumstances. I wouldn't risk trying to reproduce the same ones again, for your camera's sake!

Ole · 04-08-2016, 01:00 PM

Could the little switch on the card have been in read-only mode?

TheOneAndOnlyJH · 04-08-2016, 01:28 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by PALADIN85020

...Apparently, even if card 2 was not being used, a problem with it will absolutely shut down the K-3.

Confirmed... I tried it on my K-3 by putting in a microSD to SD adapter without a microSD card and it did exactly what you described. (Flashing on top, message on rear display.) It doesn't matter which card fails, or even if it's the one that the camera is currently writing to. The camera will take a while to boot up and show the error, but it won't take any pictures and it will just sit there flashing. The power switch won't even turn it off until you pull the faulty card or the battery.

What happened to you could be heat related, or just bad luck. I'd suggest blowing out the SD card slots to make sure there isn't any dust on the contacts. (And if it happens again, I'd recommend getting a new card.)

Originally posted by PALADIN85020

I have set the camera's priorities to direct all shots to card 1, and the overflow to card 2...

With the K-3 there is no explicit setting to send pictures to card 1 before card 2 which caused some frustration for a few people. What happens pretty much depends on the order you insert or use cards, but sometimes I've noticed that it seemed to switch cards for no apparent reason since neither card is full. (Maybe I bumped it or didn't pay attention to the order I put the cards back in after emptying it.

)

On my K-3 it starts with card 1 if you insert two cards at once, but there are some situations where the camera will write to card 2 and overflow to card 1. I hate when my K-3 switches SD cards before it's full because I end up with folders mixed between the two cards and I have to look on both to find different events. (Part of my problem is I leave some folders on the camera for a while to show people or look back at what I did. If I completely emptied both cards each day I probably wouldn't care!

)

Here are some things I've been able to repeat on purpose:
— If you are writing to card 1 and insert (or remove and re-insert) card 2, it will still write to card 1.
— If you are writing to card 1 and remove and re-insert card 1 before turning it back on, it will still write to card 1.
— If you pull card 1 and power up the camera with only card 2 in, it will write to card 2.
— If you are writing to card 2 and insert (or remove and re-insert) card 1, it will still write to card 2.
(So if you fill card 1 and overflow to card 2, it will still write to card 2 even after you empty off card 1.)
— If you are writing to card 2 and remove and re-insert card 2, it will switch to card 1 even if you didn't turn it back on before re-inserting card 2.

I've had enough of the camera switching between cards on it's own, so I came up with a quick and dirty solution.
I just set the write-lock tab on the card I am not using so that I can force the camera to use the main one (whether 1 or 2). Once my main card runs out, the camera will stop taking pictures and I just pop the second card out for a moment to set it to writeable. This way I'm not surprised by the camera unexpectedly switching cards, and it also gives me a sort of warning when I'm about halfway out of space. Granted, if I was doing a paid gig I might rethink this, but I haven't missed any pictures yet by having to pop out my second card for a few moments to slide the tab.

Oldbayrunner · 04-08-2016, 01:30 PM

Leaving it in an insulted trunk at around 90 can easily equate to approx 120 degrees. Not good for electronics or card's.

rawr · 04-08-2016, 01:39 PM

Originally posted by TheOneAndOnlyJH

What happens pretty much depends on the order you insert or use cards,

Good testing.

The firmware logic of the K-3 for managing dual card operation does indeed produce truly weird (and sometimes very inconvenient and annoying) results. I hope they have improved this in the K-1.

TheOneAndOnlyJH · 04-08-2016, 01:46 PM

Originally posted by rawr

Good testing.

The firmware logic of the K-3 for managing dual card operation does indeed produce truly weird (and sometimes very inconvenient and annoying) results. I hope they have improved this in the K-1.

And if all else fails, there's always that little locking tab!

---------- Post added 04-08-16 at 04:48 PM ----------

To be honest, the way the K-3 manages it seems to make sense since it tends to continue writing to the same card unless you take that card out. It's just those odd times it switches unexpectedly that I don't like.

PALADIN85020 · 04-08-2016, 10:23 PM

Originally posted by Ole

Could the little switch on the card have been in read-only mode?

Nope. Probably would have had the same result, though.

John

**Larrymc** · 04-09-2016, 05:03 AM

Originally posted by TheOneAndOnlyJH

Confirmed... I tried it on my K-3 by putting in a microSD to SD adapter without a microSD card and it did exactly what you described. (Flashing on top, message on rear display.) It doesn't matter which card fails, or even if it's the one that the camera is currently writing to. The camera will take a while to boot up and show the error, but it won't take any pictures and it will just sit there flashing. The power switch won't even turn it off until you pull the faulty card or the battery.

What happened to you could be heat related, or just bad luck. I'd suggest blowing out the SD card slots to make sure there isn't any dust on the contacts. (And if it happens again, I'd recommend getting a new card.)

With the K-3 there is no explicit setting to send pictures to card 1 before card 2 which caused some frustration for a few people. What happens pretty much depends on the order you insert or use cards, but sometimes I've noticed that it seemed to switch cards for no apparent reason since neither card is full. (Maybe I bumped it or didn't pay attention to the order I put the cards back in after emptying it.

)

On my K-3 it starts with card 1 if you insert two cards at once, but there are some situations where the camera will write to card 2 and overflow to card 1. I hate when my K-3 switches SD cards before it's full because I end up with folders mixed between the two cards and I have to look on both to find different events. (Part of my problem is I leave some folders on the camera for a while to show people or look back at what I did. If I completely emptied both cards each day I probably wouldn't care!

)

Here are some things I've been able to repeat on purpose:
— If you are writing to card 1 and insert (or remove and re-insert) card 2, it will still write to card 1.
— If you are writing to card 1 and remove and re-insert card 1 before turning it back on, it will still write to card 1.
— If you pull card 1 and power up the camera with only card 2 in, it will write to card 2.
— If you are writing to card 2 and insert (or remove and re-insert) card 1, it will still write to card 2.
(So if you fill card 1 and overflow to card 2, it will still write to card 2 even after you empty off card 1.)
— If you are writing to card 2 and remove and re-insert card 2, it will switch to card 1 even if you didn't turn it back on before re-inserting card 2.

I've had enough of the camera switching between cards on it's own, so I came up with a quick and dirty solution.
I just set the write-lock tab on the card I am not using so that I can force the camera to use the main one (whether 1 or 2). Once my main card runs out, the camera will stop taking pictures and I just pop the second card out for a moment to set it to writeable. This way I'm not surprised by the camera unexpectedly switching cards, and it also gives me a sort of warning when I'm about halfway out of space. Granted, if I was doing a paid gig I might rethink this, but I haven't missed any pictures yet by having to pop out my second card for a few moments to slide the tab.

Just curious, are your writing the same format to both cards? I've never experienced this problem but I download my cards both Raw and JPEG and format them after downloads.

Larry Mc

TheOneAndOnlyJH · 04-11-2016, 02:42 PM

Originally posted by Larrymc

Just curious, are your writing the same format to both cards? I've never experienced this problem but I download my cards both Raw and JPEG and format them after downloads.

Larry Mc

I use RAW+ (RAW and JPEG on the same card) set to overflow to the next card once the current card is full. If I emptied and formatted my cards each time I probably wouldn't have any issue, but I leave some folders on the card so I can show people family pictures later or look back at ones I took before to plan out what I want to do next. (Right now I'm taking monthly pictures of a newborn to show how he grows, so I want the same lighting / framing / pose each time.) Since I don't empty and format both cards each time I was ending up with folders back and forth on the cards rather than chronologically sorted like I wanted, which is why I write-lock my second card to force everything onto the primary one (whether it be slot 1 or 2 that day). It would be nice to have a menu option to select which card to write to, but this works for me.

**jpzk** · 04-11-2016, 03:54 PM

It's a weird behavior.
Would anyone think that this could be corrected via firmware?

04-08-2016, 10:58 AM - 1 Like	#1
PALADIN85020 Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Arizona Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 442	K-3 mishap... Yesterday, my K-3 just shut down, refused to take a picture, the upper LCD panel went crazy, and I couldn't turn it off! Here's what happened. Yesterday, I took my K-3 in its usual soft carry case and put it in the trunk of my car. Outside temperature yesterday was in the low 90s in Phoenix. My granddaughter was in town, and I had intended to take some pictures of her standing in front of some of our old family homes. Taking the K-3 from its case, I turned it on and attempted to take a picture - it was on the green automatic setting. It seemed to focus normally, but when I pressed the go button, absolutely nothing happened. I tried again, with the same result. I switched to AV mode and tried again - still nothing. The top LCD panel was going crazy, and I could not turn the camera off. I pulled the battery and inserted a fresh one. Still no action when trying to activate the shutter. I finally got it turned off, put it back the case, and used a backup point-and-shoot to take the pictures I wanted. Upon getting home, I took out my wayward K-3 to try to figure out what happened. Inside the house, out of direct sunlight, I turned it on. However, now I could see both LCD displays, which I could not view previously in direct harsh sunlight. On top, the indicator for the second slot memory card was blinking, and on the back, a message appeared that indicated something was wrong with the card in slot #2. I have set the camera's priorities to direct all shots to card 1, and the overflow to card 2. Accordingly, I removed the card in slot 2 and re-inserted it. Suddenly things returned to normal. As a precaution, I re-formatted the card in slot 2 (which was already formatted and empty waiting for any overflow of card 1). Apparently, even if card 2 was not being used, a problem with it will absolutely shut down the K-3. I did not know this, and could not find anything in the instructions or in aftermarket guides on the camera that described this particular anomaly. It may be that the camera was not making proper contact with the contact strips on the card, or the card did in fact have some sort of problem. I hope re-formatting it would guard against this possibility. I wanted to let you all know of this occurrence in case something similar happens to you. My K-3 is now performing perfectly again. Have any of you had a similar problem? John PENTAX : PENTAX Photo Gallery artist page

04-08-2016, 01:28 PM - 1 Like	#5
TheOneAndOnlyJH Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Buffalo, NY Posts: 351	Originally posted by PALADIN85020 ...Apparently, even if card 2 was not being used, a problem with it will absolutely shut down the K-3. Confirmed... I tried it on my K-3 by putting in a microSD to SD adapter without a microSD card and it did exactly what you described. (Flashing on top, message on rear display.) It doesn't matter which card fails, or even if it's the one that the camera is currently writing to. The camera will take a while to boot up and show the error, but it won't take any pictures and it will just sit there flashing. The power switch won't even turn it off until you pull the faulty card or the battery. What happened to you could be heat related, or just bad luck. I'd suggest blowing out the SD card slots to make sure there isn't any dust on the contacts. (And if it happens again, I'd recommend getting a new card.) Originally posted by PALADIN85020 I have set the camera's priorities to direct all shots to card 1, and the overflow to card 2... With the K-3 there is no explicit setting to send pictures to card 1 before card 2 which caused some frustration for a few people. What happens pretty much depends on the order you insert or use cards, but sometimes I've noticed that it seemed to switch cards for no apparent reason since neither card is full. (Maybe I bumped it or didn't pay attention to the order I put the cards back in after emptying it.) On my K-3 it starts with card 1 if you insert two cards at once, but there are some situations where the camera will write to card 2 and overflow to card 1. I hate when my K-3 switches SD cards before it's full because I end up with folders mixed between the two cards and I have to look on both to find different events. (Part of my problem is I leave some folders on the camera for a while to show people or look back at what I did. If I completely emptied both cards each day I probably wouldn't care!) Here are some things I've been able to repeat on purpose: — If you are writing to card 1 and insert (or remove and re-insert) card 2, it will still write to card 1. — If you are writing to card 1 and remove and re-insert card 1 before turning it back on, it will still write to card 1. — If you pull card 1 and power up the camera with only card 2 in, it will write to card 2. — If you are writing to card 2 and insert (or remove and re-insert) card 1, it will still write to card 2. (So if you fill card 1 and overflow to card 2, it will still write to card 2 even after you empty off card 1.) — If you are writing to card 2 and remove and re-insert card 2, it will switch to card 1 even if you didn't turn it back on before re-inserting card 2. I've had enough of the camera switching between cards on it's own, so I came up with a quick and dirty solution. I just set the write-lock tab on the card I am not using so that I can force the camera to use the main one (whether 1 or 2). Once my main card runs out, the camera will stop taking pictures and I just pop the second card out for a moment to set it to writeable. This way I'm not surprised by the camera unexpectedly switching cards, and it also gives me a sort of warning when I'm about halfway out of space. Granted, if I was doing a paid gig I might rethink this, but I haven't missed any pictures yet by having to pop out my second card for a few moments to slide the tab. Last edited by TheOneAndOnlyJH; 04-08-2016 at 01:34 PM.

04-09-2016, 05:03 AM	#10
Larrymc Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Mississippi, USA Posts: 5,252	Originally posted by TheOneAndOnlyJH Confirmed... I tried it on my K-3 by putting in a microSD to SD adapter without a microSD card and it did exactly what you described. (Flashing on top, message on rear display.) It doesn't matter which card fails, or even if it's the one that the camera is currently writing to. The camera will take a while to boot up and show the error, but it won't take any pictures and it will just sit there flashing. The power switch won't even turn it off until you pull the faulty card or the battery. What happened to you could be heat related, or just bad luck. I'd suggest blowing out the SD card slots to make sure there isn't any dust on the contacts. (And if it happens again, I'd recommend getting a new card.) With the K-3 there is no explicit setting to send pictures to card 1 before card 2 which caused some frustration for a few people. What happens pretty much depends on the order you insert or use cards, but sometimes I've noticed that it seemed to switch cards for no apparent reason since neither card is full. (Maybe I bumped it or didn't pay attention to the order I put the cards back in after emptying it.) On my K-3 it starts with card 1 if you insert two cards at once, but there are some situations where the camera will write to card 2 and overflow to card 1. I hate when my K-3 switches SD cards before it's full because I end up with folders mixed between the two cards and I have to look on both to find different events. (Part of my problem is I leave some folders on the camera for a while to show people or look back at what I did. If I completely emptied both cards each day I probably wouldn't care!) Here are some things I've been able to repeat on purpose: — If you are writing to card 1 and insert (or remove and re-insert) card 2, it will still write to card 1. — If you are writing to card 1 and remove and re-insert card 1 before turning it back on, it will still write to card 1. — If you pull card 1 and power up the camera with only card 2 in, it will write to card 2. — If you are writing to card 2 and insert (or remove and re-insert) card 1, it will still write to card 2. (So if you fill card 1 and overflow to card 2, it will still write to card 2 even after you empty off card 1.) — If you are writing to card 2 and remove and re-insert card 2, it will switch to card 1 even if you didn't turn it back on before re-inserting card 2. I've had enough of the camera switching between cards on it's own, so I came up with a quick and dirty solution. I just set the write-lock tab on the card I am not using so that I can force the camera to use the main one (whether 1 or 2). Once my main card runs out, the camera will stop taking pictures and I just pop the second card out for a moment to set it to writeable. This way I'm not surprised by the camera unexpectedly switching cards, and it also gives me a sort of warning when I'm about halfway out of space. Granted, if I was doing a paid gig I might rethink this, but I haven't missed any pictures yet by having to pop out my second card for a few moments to slide the tab. Just curious, are your writing the same format to both cards? I've never experienced this problem but I download my cards both Raw and JPEG and format them after downloads. Larry Mc

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04-08-2016, 11:32 AM - 1 Like	#2
jatrax Site Supporter Join Date: May 2010 Location: Washington Cascades Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,991	Camera in the trunk in 90 degrees plus is (IMHO) not a good thing. We used to keep our gear in a styrofoam cooler in the car so it would not overheat. No way to prove what happened but here is a theory: at the temp in the trunk the SD card expanded just enough to short out the memory bus. Anyway, very glad all is back to normal.

04-08-2016, 11:36 AM	#3
pathdoc Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2015 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,381	Thank you for reporting this. Worth knowing if anyone with a two-SD camera has ever reported the same problem, and a potential in-the-field fix too. Do please let us know if it happens again under different circumstances. I wouldn't risk trying to reproduce the same ones again, for your camera's sake!

04-08-2016, 01:00 PM	#4
Ole Administrator Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Copenhagen, Denmark Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,408	Could the little switch on the card have been in read-only mode?

04-08-2016, 01:30 PM	#6
Oldbayrunner Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 1,665	Leaving it in an insulted trunk at around 90 can easily equate to approx 120 degrees. Not good for electronics or card's.

04-08-2016, 01:39 PM	#7
rawr Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 11,913	Originally posted by TheOneAndOnlyJH What happens pretty much depends on the order you insert or use cards, Good testing. The firmware logic of the K-3 for managing dual card operation does indeed produce truly weird (and sometimes very inconvenient and annoying) results. I hope they have improved this in the K-1.

04-08-2016, 01:46 PM	#8
TheOneAndOnlyJH Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Buffalo, NY Posts: 351	Originally posted by rawr Good testing. The firmware logic of the K-3 for managing dual card operation does indeed produce truly weird (and sometimes very inconvenient and annoying) results. I hope they have improved this in the K-1. And if all else fails, there's always that little locking tab! ---------- Post added 04-08-16 at 04:48 PM ---------- To be honest, the way the K-3 manages it seems to make sense since it tends to continue writing to the same card unless you take that card out. It's just those odd times it switches unexpectedly that I don't like.

04-08-2016, 10:23 PM	#9
PALADIN85020 Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Arizona Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 442 Original Poster	Originally posted by Ole Could the little switch on the card have been in read-only mode? Nope. Probably would have had the same result, though. John

04-11-2016, 02:42 PM	#11
TheOneAndOnlyJH Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Buffalo, NY Posts: 351	Originally posted by Larrymc Just curious, are your writing the same format to both cards? I've never experienced this problem but I download my cards both Raw and JPEG and format them after downloads. Larry Mc I use RAW+ (RAW and JPEG on the same card) set to overflow to the next card once the current card is full. If I emptied and formatted my cards each time I probably wouldn't have any issue, but I leave some folders on the card so I can show people family pictures later or look back at ones I took before to plan out what I want to do next. (Right now I'm taking monthly pictures of a newborn to show how he grows, so I want the same lighting / framing / pose each time.) Since I don't empty and format both cards each time I was ending up with folders back and forth on the cards rather than chronologically sorted like I wanted, which is why I write-lock my second card to force everything onto the primary one (whether it be slot 1 or 2 that day). It would be nice to have a menu option to select which card to write to, but this works for me.

04-11-2016, 03:54 PM	#12
jpzk Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Québec Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 8,251	It's a weird behavior. Would anyone think that this could be corrected via firmware?