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07-21-2016, 04:19 AM   #106
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
No one ever said it was equal. But what I did say, was given the lower resolution, and nearly equivalent frame rate, I'm not convinced for most of what I do you get more keepers. Considering that any image I actually capture will probably have more resolution with a K-3. If I take my images taken with a K-3, any image I take with any manual focus lens like my A-400 is going to be better than a D500 image based on resolution, unless the images is taken at 3200 ISO on the D500, and I'd probably toss that image anyway.

Any image I can capture using Pentax's somewhat slower AF system is going to be better from the K-3, based on the image being higher resolution.

Any image for which I use AF-s, turn off focus priority and use shutter priority and my subject doesn't move all that much, and that is the vast majority of my images, where I push the FPS to 8 FPS, again the image resolution is going to give my K-3 a clear advantage.

Where does the D500 have an advantage? A little bit of high ISO probably between 1600 ISO and 3200 ISO, and the rare circumstance when I use tracking (which is very rarely necessary) where the K-3 cannot track the subject, but the Nikon D500 can. SO just how big do you suppose that window might be? Only experience will tell.

But this is a straight trade off. AF speed for subject IQ in most shooting circumstances. Until someone shoots some side by side images we won't even be able to evaluate who this trade off might work for. But, it's not certain that for any but those shooters who shoot sports that involve a lot of speed, it will provide better images. It's giving up in the resolution battle to provide the fast but not the fastest APS-c burst speed. AF speed for those who need it..IN that sense it's a niche camera.

The thing I deal with constantly in this type of discussion is the notion that better AF gets you better pictures. The simple truth is that no AF with a larger format gets you better pictures. The realm of the fast AF camera is images you can't get with higher resolution cameras. Just buying a camera like the D500 means you've given up on K-1 or even K-3 image quality for that high speed lower res image. That's why I'm saying It's a niche camera.

Another example of that would be one of those huge cameras they use for aerial photgprahy. They are great at what they do, but do you really want one? Being really good at something only matters if it's the most important thing, and fast AF is irrelevant after the picture is snapped. You want to use the best image, whether it was taken by machine gunning a fast AF camera, or planning and capturing a great image with an MF lens buy triggering the shutter as at the moving subject move through a prefocussed position, if you can get it, the best image will be MF, prefocussed K-1. You have to give up on getting that image and settle for something less just by picking up a 1Dx or a D500, or even a D750. But for some, that is the right choice. Because the choice is between D500 and nothing. What hasn't happened yet is, no one has convinced me that this would be a meaningful choice for anyone.No one cares how fast your camera focusses , they care about what the image looks like. If in fact, they could have waited a half second for their camera to focus and achieved the exact same image with more detail, that image with more detail will probably be what they want. That's the situation most K-3 owner will be in faced with a in a K-3 vs D500 choice.

I see this camera as meaningful type addition to the Nikon family of cameras, in the same way the D3s was. And I expect it's sales to be about the same and it's production run to be as long. And honestly, how many Pentax users left Pentax for a D3s? I don't know of one. D750 yes, D800 D810 , yes, D3s, not one that I know of.

So my advice to those who honestly need it, would be, snap it up before its gone. You can't buy a D3s any more despite people whining and crying about low light performance, and you won't be able to buy a D500 very long, even with all these people whining about slow AF. They gave away to much to achieve their goal. But for those of you for whom it would be useful despite the trade offs, snap it up, Don't wait for the price to drop, you might wait too long. This is not going to become one of those cameras that sells a bazillion units to people of all photographic backgrounds. It simply costs too much for that. Over here in Pentax land, most of us would rather have a K-1, which would actually be cheaper.

I looked through the review on Imaging resources, and wondered, how did that guy get so many great wildlife images in such a short time, I can go weeks without seeing that much wildlife, but I also didn't see any images I couldn't have taken with a K-3.

I honestly think this should be the tone of Nikon's marketing.

It won't last long so get it while you can.
And I'm also willing to bet that people who honestly need what it has to offer, will treasure it for a long time. Who knows if there will ever again be something like it. Want evidence that that's going t be true? Try and buy a second hand D3s.
I remember before the K-3 came out, Pentaxians were craving faster AF. The K-3 delivered AF as good as the D7100, though those shooting with both cameras later claimed that the K-3 was just a tiny bit off a D7100.

I also remember when the D7000 came out that they claimed it had fantastic AF speed etc. I would assume that the K-3 is a little better than the D7000, and just a little off of the D7100/7200. Thats fine with me my K-3 is in the ballpark and I don't really shoot action anyway.

The K3ii apparently had a slight improvement in AF over the K-3 so one might assume that it might be equal to a D7100.

The D500 has come out and its an APSC pro camera and its only competitor is the 7D mark ii, and the K-3 isn't in the same category as these two cameras in terms of sports. I'm not in the market for either the D500 and 7Dii, Canon and Nikon bore me senseless. Last time I picked up a D7100 a few weeks ago, it felt real cheap and the usability wasn't nowhere near as good as my K-3.

I'm sure that the D500, 7dii and D7100 are fine cameras, but I'm more than happy with what I got. Pentax just needs to improve a bunch of lenses that require AF improvements so's that they can be more competitive with Canikony-film.

07-21-2016, 06:32 AM   #107
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QuoteOriginally posted by gaweidert Quote
Two biggies on my wishlist:

1) Optical focus aids on the focus screen. PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

2) Maybe one of the dial buttons like on the K1. Except with a new position called AFOR for Auto Focus Over Ride. You move the dial to that position and then the little wheel can be used to fine tweak the focus to exactly where you want it. Real handy for macro or close focus work.
How refreshing to see something imaginative rather than just more AF.C, AF.C, AF.C

A scaled down K-1 sounds good to me, though, maybe without the fourth wheel, leaving some more space for a top LCD.

I suspect most will leave the mode wheel in one position anyway - and one could always use User modes for much the same purpose.

One focus point is sufficient for me as long as AF.S is accurate Continuous focus I rarely use (if ever).
07-21-2016, 06:44 AM   #108
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QuoteOriginally posted by savoche Quote
A scaled down K-1 sounds good to me, though, maybe without the fourth wheel, leaving some more space for a top LCD.
That would be a K-3 II
07-21-2016, 07:02 AM   #109
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QuoteOriginally posted by D1N0 Quote
That would be a K-3 II
Almost. Missing the 3rd wheel, the wonky screen and a host of other smaller or bigger improvements. But then, I'd like to see the the weight kept down...

I'm happy with my K-3, though. Not sure what Pentax can do to make me upgrade to the new one. Nothing would delight me more than if they did just that, though.

07-22-2016, 05:08 AM   #110
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QuoteOriginally posted by savoche Quote
Almost. Missing the 3rd wheel, the wonky screen and a host of other smaller or bigger improvements. But then, I'd like to see the the weight kept down...

I'm happy with my K-3, though. Not sure what Pentax can do to make me upgrade to the new one. Nothing would delight me more than if they did just that, though.
I would like to see the mirror out
07-22-2016, 07:42 AM   #111
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I would like to see a compact DSLR with a size just a little bigger than the Fuji XT-10, fully loaded with the K-3II features. Of course, better noise handling at high ISO settings and better AF. I'm drooling for such a camera.
07-22-2016, 08:11 AM   #112
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QuoteOriginally posted by panonski Quote
I would like to see the mirror out
A DSLR without a mirror? Would make it pretty useless, wouldn't it?

Seriously, I have yet to see a mirror-less with more than a third of the battery life of the K-3. That alone makes them highly impractical for me. Just imagine having to bring a dozen batteries along on a trip. Just keeping track of which are depleted would be a challenge. Then having to charge them all when you get back to a power outlet - have to bring several chargers to make that feasible.

No, Ricoh, don't you dare!
07-22-2016, 09:07 AM   #113
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QuoteOriginally posted by savoche Quote
A DSLR without a mirror? Would make it pretty useless, wouldn't it?

Seriously, I have yet to see a mirror-less with more than a third of the battery life of the K-3. That alone makes them highly impractical for me. Just imagine having to bring a dozen batteries along on a trip. Just keeping track of which are depleted would be a challenge. Then having to charge them all when you get back to a power outlet - have to bring several chargers to make that feasible.

No, Ricoh, don't you dare!

You're depply wrong about the battery - I have Oly Pen EP 5, which is in very hard use two years from now, and I instantly bought a new spare battery then, when I purchased it.

Same thing I've done with my K3, and guess what - there is no much difference. Don't miss the fact the mirror fliping up and down, also eat the battery, and that's not the case with mirror less.

Yes,
it sound strange, but I believe Pentax would jump into Electrical View finder sooner or later. Technology just goes forward, and there is not much of sentimentality there

Pentaprism and mirror would go together into the sunset once, maybe not for good, but certainly it will fall up from some Pentax future cameras ...

07-22-2016, 10:10 AM   #114
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QuoteOriginally posted by panonski Quote
You're depply wrong about the battery - I have Oly Pen EP 5, which is in very hard use two years from now, and I instantly bought a new spare battery then, when I purchased it.

Same thing I've done with my K3, and guess what - there is no much difference. Don't miss the fact the mirror fliping up and down, also eat the battery, and that's not the case with mirror less.

Yes,
it sound strange, but I believe Pentax would jump into Electrical View finder sooner or later. Technology just goes forward, and there is not much of sentimentality there

Pentaprism and mirror would go together into the sunset once, maybe not for good, but certainly it will fall up from some Pentax future cameras ...
I mean number of pictures you can get from a fully charged battery. The E-P5 has a CIPA rating of 330, which is good for a mirror-less. The K-3 has 720, the K-5 980. And I get more than that by not using the screen, something you can't do with a mirror-less.

Nope, we need far better battery tech before I'll consider MILC a real option for me.

Of course, for everyday use at home this is not a problem. When travelling a bit away from the electrified world, it is. In other words, this is not a problem or a concern for the majority. Nor for me most of the time. But those trips off the beaten track are why I got back into photography at all.
07-22-2016, 10:16 AM   #115
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QuoteOriginally posted by savoche Quote
I mean number of pictures you can get from a fully charged battery. The E-P5 has a CIPA rating of 330, which is good for a mirror-less. The K-3 has 720, the K-5 980. And I get more than that by not using the screen, something you can't do with a mirror-less.

Nope, we need far better battery tech before I'll consider MILC a real option for me.

Of course, for everyday use at home this is not a problem. When travelling a bit away from the electrified world, it is. In other words, this is not a problem or a concern for the majority. Nor for me most of the time. But those trips off the beaten track are why I got back into photography at all.

cipa for k3 is 560, and unknown for liveview. But I'm ensure you, because I shoot with both cameras, the difference is not so big, specially when you have spares for both cameras
07-22-2016, 10:34 AM   #116
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QuoteOriginally posted by panonski Quote
cipa for k3 is 560, and unknown for liveview. But I'm ensure you, because I shoot with both cameras, the difference is not so big, specially when you have spares for both cameras
My bad - I looked up the K-3ii

No matter, as I said, it's possible to eke out a lot more by not using the screen unnecessarily, no review, definitely no live view.

Not that I think we will agree on this topic anyway

Besides, I like optical view finders. So there
07-22-2016, 11:15 AM   #117
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QuoteOriginally posted by savoche Quote
My bad - I looked up the K-3ii

Besides, I like optical view finders. So there
Oh, me too, specially when I realise how convinient it is in much light - but EVF is much much better, with so many improvements lately - pic from only mirror to your eye, through prism, just can't beat modern EVF anymore

Only aspect where is mirror still ( but not so long ) better, is action shooting of fast moving subjects, because refresh rate on EVF is little slower,

but this is just minor issue, and it will be improve - just wait to see Photokina, and models in first quartal of 2017

Sony, Fuji, Olympus, Panasonic are leading in this - and Pentax ( and others too ) must follow this, because it will be eaten in semipro areas very soon. Some of very respectable photographers already jump to Sony from Canon's and Nikon's - and when someone jump to Sony with only few good lenses, you know it's time

it's time little boy, it's time

Last edited by panonski; 07-22-2016 at 11:26 AM.
07-22-2016, 11:41 AM   #118
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QuoteOriginally posted by panonski Quote
Oh, me too, specially when I realise how convinient it is in much light - but EVF is much much better, with so many improvements lately - pic from only mirror to your eye, through prism, just can't beat modern EVF anymore

Only aspect where is still ( but not so long ) better is action shooting fast moving subjects, because refresh rate on EVF is little slower,

but this is just minor issue, and it will be improve - just wait to see Photokina, and models in first quartal of 2017

Sony, Fuji, Olympus, Panasonic are leading in this - and Pentax ( and others too ) must follow this, because it will be eaten in semipro areas very soon. Some of very respectable photographers already jump to Sony from Canon's and Nikon's - and when someone jump to Sony with only few good lenses, you know it's time

it's time little boy, it's time
Talk like that gives me nightmares

Ah well. Different tastes, different needs, different systems. I will still choose what suits me, not what suit others.

Have a wonderful weekend
07-22-2016, 11:54 AM   #119
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QuoteOriginally posted by savoche Quote
Talk like that gives me nightmares

Ah well. Different tastes, different needs, different systems. I will still choose what suits me, not what suit others.

Have a wonderful weekend

hhahhaha, thanks - you too !
07-23-2016, 12:08 AM - 1 Like   #120
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QuoteOriginally posted by panonski Quote
I believe Pentax would jump into Electrical View finder sooner or later
QuoteOriginally posted by panonski Quote
Pentax ( and others too ) must follow this
I for one do not want EVF, definetely not. No, Pentax does not need to follow like sheep. OVF is what I need in my DSLR, if Pentax change to EVF I will change to another brand that have OVF.
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