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09-29-2016, 08:05 PM   #1
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K-3 and Sigma EF 610 DG Super puzzle

Edit: OK a correction for some reason I was in a fog last night when I posted the original post as I had previously been outside in daylight with the meter and K-3, the shutter speed was set to 1/160s and it was not reset as I stated at first. The flash intensity level was reset instead, sorry for my misstatement I am still puzzled about why the K-3 would fire the flash ever other time when triggered by the IR remote and my K-50 would fire the flash every time when triggered by the remote.



Last night I wanted to get familiar with my newly acquired Sekonic L 308S-U flash meter so I set up my K-3 with a DA 35 f2.4 on a tripod with my Sigma EF 610 DG Super mounted on the hotshoe and got out my cheap little IR remote to trigger the flash. I set up the Sekonic for non cable flash metering and proceeded to set up the flash as well as the K-3 for manual flash useage. When I positioned myself in front of the camera at a distance of about 8 feet and triggered the IR remote..... no flash but the camera took a shot with a black photo on the monitor??? Hmmmmm.....so I triggered the IR Remote again and got a flash along with an over exposed photo as I expected to have the first time. I adjusted the shutter speed to the Sekonic recommended exposure and triggered the remote again...........and again I had a camera shot with no flash. I triggered the remote again and got a good exposure??? This behavior never happened before with my K-50 and I even got out the K-50 mounted the flash and each time I triggered the remote a flash and a properly exposed photo was the result. Then I remounted the flash to my K-3 and started getting proper exposures but I never figured out why everything worked the second time around.


My question is: Is there a proper sequence I am missing for mounting and turning on the flash and camera that I missed the first time I tried? In other words is there a "hand shake" sequence with the K-3 Sigma EF 610 DG Super combination for proper flash operation?


Puzzled


Larry


Last edited by Larrymc; 09-30-2016 at 04:06 AM. Reason: spelling
09-29-2016, 09:12 PM   #2
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First, why are you adjusting the shutter speed for exposure with the flash? The camera has a sync speed (1/180- to 1/250 sec), which should not be exceeded (though you can go lower for fill flash applications). The shutter speed has no real effect on the flash exposure as the flash duration is shorter than the sync speed. F stop and flash duration (automatic exposure settings on the flash) control the exposure only, for a given ISO, with a flash.

As for the intermittent flash situation, you may have not had the flash fully seated to the hot shoe the first time. See if there is a threshold position where the flash will work, and where it won't.

Regards.
09-29-2016, 09:26 PM   #3
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QuoteOriginally posted by Larrymc Quote
I adjusted the shutter speed to the Sekonic recommended exposure and triggered the remote again...........and again I had a camera shot with no flash.
1. Use a flash meter to measure the light from the flash.

2. You probably set the shutter speed to a value above the X sync speed (1/180s). The hot shoe will not trigger if faster than that speed.


Steve
09-29-2016, 10:04 PM   #4
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For some reason I do not get it why you mounting the flash on camera hot shoe and use the light meter... unless you do not have wireless remote triggers for the flash.
IMHO The proper set-up will be:
Flash mounted on wireless receiver and on some kind of stand.
Wireless trigger mounted on camera hotshoe (prior you can use use trigger to manually discharge flash to measure the output with your Sekonic).
Enter the measured values into camera and then with IR remote trigger the camera.

Make sure that x-sync speed is bellow 1/180s as mentioned above.

Please note that K-3 does not go above 1/180 unless you have flash mounted on hot-shoe and use P-TTL for HSS.

09-30-2016, 04:15 AM   #5
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The IR remote triggers the camera release, not the flash. If you are intending to use a flash meter, it also means you intend to manually control exposure at the camera. Use X-Sync or M(anual) exposure modes and set the shutter to 1/80. Take the flash off TTL mode and use manual mode there too. You can now control exposure via a aperture and/or flash power setting based on values from your flash meter. If you don't take your flash out of TTL mode, your flash meter is likely going to be fooled by the pTTL pre-flash.
09-30-2016, 05:14 AM   #6
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Have you tried reseating the flash on the K-3? This is odd - the every other trigger is strange. Try firing the camera using the self timer without IR remote is the behavior the same? (Assuming it is) increase the time between shots and verify the ready light is on before triggering - still the same?

I'm stumped. Just tossing out ideas.
09-30-2016, 06:56 AM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by BigDave Quote
First, why are you adjusting the shutter speed for exposure with the flash? The camera has a sync speed (1/180- to 1/250 sec), which should not be exceeded (though you can go lower for fill flash applications). The shutter speed has no real effect on the flash exposure as the flash duration is shorter than the sync speed. F stop and flash duration (automatic exposure settings on the flash) control the exposure only, for a given ISO, with a flash.

As for the intermittent flash situation, you may have not had the flash fully seated to the hot shoe the first time. See if there is a threshold position where the flash will work, and where it won't.

Regards.
Hi Dave,

I edited my original post to reflect the following: Actually I was not adjusting the shutter speed it was set to 1/160s what I was adjusting was the Flash intensity level which worked out nicely. But the intermittent flash was what was giving me problems. I tried re-seating the flash several times to no avail.
09-30-2016, 06:59 AM   #8
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OK, that makes sense. Then the intermittent issue is a puzzle for sure! The other possibility would also be some type of build up on the contacts, that finally cleared, or firmware issues. I can't wait to find out the answer now!

09-30-2016, 07:00 AM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
1. Use a flash meter to measure the light from the flash.

2. You probably set the shutter speed to a value above the X sync speed (1/180s). The hot shoe will not trigger if faster than that speed.


Steve
Thanks Steve,

I had the camera set to manual flash as well as the flash unit. Metering was set manually with 1/160s shutter speed aperture around f5.6.

Larry

---------- Post added 09-30-16 at 09:12 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by BigDave Quote
OK, that makes sense. Then the intermittent issue is a puzzle for sure! The other possibility would also be some type of build up on the contacts, that finally cleared, or firmware issues. I can't wait to find out the answer now!
Thanks Dave,

Yep very puzzling for sure. I'm going to try it again possibly tonight. I keep the camera hot shoe cover on all the time but it could have been some sort of foreign material on the bottom of the flash unit....it looked OK though.

---------- Post added 09-30-16 at 09:19 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by RAART Quote
For some reason I do not get it why you mounting the flash on camera hot shoe and use the light meter... unless you do not have wireless remote triggers for the flash.
IMHO The proper set-up will be:
Flash mounted on wireless receiver and on some kind of stand.
Wireless trigger mounted on camera hotshoe (prior you can use use trigger to manually discharge flash to measure the output with your Sekonic).
Enter the measured values into camera and then with IR remote trigger the camera.

Make sure that x-sync speed is bellow 1/180s as mentioned above.

Please note that K-3 does not go above 1/180 unless you have flash mounted on hot-shoe and use P-TTL for HSS.
Thanks,

I had the flash camera mounted because I don't have wireless triggers and receivers right now. I wanted to control the flash out put manually for proper exposure rather than use P-TTL. Everything was set up manually. My problem is the intermittent flash actuation.

Larry

---------- Post added 09-30-16 at 09:52 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by JimJohnson Quote
The IR remote triggers the camera release, not the flash. If you are intending to use a flash meter, it also means you intend to manually control exposure at the camera. Use X-Sync or M(anual) exposure modes and set the shutter to 1/80. Take the flash off TTL mode and use manual mode there too. You can now control exposure via a aperture and/or flash power setting based on values from your flash meter. If you don't take your flash out of TTL mode, your flash meter is likely going to be fooled by the pTTL pre-flash.
Hi Jim,

Everything on the camera as well as the flash was set up for manual flash with 1/160s not P-TTL. My problem was the intermittent flash operation not the setup.

Larry

---------- Post added 09-30-16 at 09:55 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by UncleVanya Quote
Have you tried reseating the flash on the K-3? This is odd - the every other trigger is strange. Try firing the camera using the self timer without IR remote is the behavior the same? (Assuming it is) increase the time between shots and verify the ready light is on before triggering - still the same?

I'm stumped. Just tossing out ideas.
Hi UV,

Using the shutter button or a wired shutter release the camera and flash operated as it should but with the IR Remote it was intermittent. My K-50 operated perfectly in all three modes.

Larry
09-30-2016, 08:39 AM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by Larrymc Quote
Everything on the camera as well as the flash was set up for manual flash with 1/160s not P-TTL. My problem was the intermittent flash operation not the setup.
Is there any possibility that the flash was not ready? (Grasping at straws here)


Steve
09-30-2016, 09:13 AM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
Is there any possibility that the flash was not ready? (Grasping at straws here)


Steve
That was why I suggested pausing longer between attempts - or lowering the flash output just for testing.

It is even odder sounding now that I hear it works with shutter released manually but not via remote.

What mode is the camera in?
09-30-2016, 09:25 AM   #12
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Out of curiosity - what is your shutter/AF setting (C3.15) and your IR/AF setting (C3.19) and especially release while charging flash setting (C3.20)?

You could potentially set up a conflicting situation with these 3 settings preventing consistent flash shots.

For what it is worth, I have the K-3 and this flash model and have never had a problem.
09-30-2016, 09:52 AM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
Is there any possibility that the flash was not ready? (Grasping at straws here)


Steve
Steve,

The flash ready light was on so I assume it was charged

---------- Post added 09-30-16 at 11:53 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by UncleVanya Quote
That was why I suggested pausing longer between attempts - or lowering the flash output just for testing.

It is even odder sounding now that I hear it works with shutter released manually but not via remote.

What mode is the camera in?
Everything manual

---------- Post added 09-30-16 at 12:02 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by JimJohnson Quote
Out of curiosity - what is your shutter/AF setting (C3.15) and your IR/AF setting (C3.19) and especially release while charging flash setting (C3.20)?

You could potentially set up a conflicting situation with these 3 settings preventing consistent flash shots.

For what it is worth, I have the K-3 and this flash model and have never had a problem.
C3. 15 Focus Priority, C3. 19 On, C3.20 Off. The lens could be heard focusing each time when no flash or with flash.

Larry
09-30-2016, 10:52 AM   #14
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The flash as long as it is mounted on camera, even in manual mode has a hand shake with camera. Try to use camera internal flash as wireless controller to trigger of camera your sigma flash. If the problem stops then you have your answer.
09-30-2016, 11:45 AM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by Larrymc Quote
C3. 15 Focus Priority, C3. 19 On, C3.20 Off. The lens could be heard focusing each time when no flash or with flash.
Hmm, should work, but try this: 15 = release priority, 19 off (release via remote without pre-AF). Since you are just testing manual flash exposure levels, focus shouldn't be a primary concern. Turn camera to manual focus and roughly set to subject distance.

In theory, it would eliminate any timing issues with shutter release. Make sure you have fresh batteries in both camera and flash.
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