K3 and K3ii - color on LCD different from raw file brought into Lightroom

ShellyRosenberg · 03-29-2017, 06:46 AM

Particularly when taking photos indoors, the LCD thumbnail is very different from the raw file brought into Lightroom. Actually as it is brought in the photo looks like the LCD and then changes. How can I get my LCD to be more like the raw photo - which has the natural coloring? How can I know when taking my photo (when I look at the LCD) that I have the color tones I want without having to wait until I get into Lightroom? (I have just exported the raw file into a jpeg for visibility here). See attachments
Shelly Rosenberg

Attached Images

awscreo · 03-29-2017, 06:55 AM

You might want to try switching profiles at the bottom of the control panel. Standard Adobe one is rubbish imo. I use dng and switch to Embedded on import.

ShellyRosenberg · 03-29-2017, 07:04 AM

Originally posted by awscreo

You might want to try switching profiles at the bottom of the control panel. Standard Adobe one is rubbish imo. I use dng and switch to Embedded on import.

I do not know what you mean by switching profiles at the bottom of the control panel. On my camera? I have the K3 and the K3ii. Where can I find those settings?
thans

JohnX · 03-29-2017, 07:06 AM

What's actually seen on the LCD is a jpeg thumbnail image regardless of whether you're shooting RAW or not, and will therefore be processed to some extent.

You can, and should, adjust the LCD image to reflect as best as possible the scene you're shooting. You'll find adjustments in the set-up menu for LCD Display Settings, in which you will be able to adjust brightness, saturation and colour.

As you're using LR you'll be able to adjust skin tones, etc, but I agree it's good practice to try and get it right in camera. One quick way to get this right is to take a test shot incorporating something like a grey card, or colour passport, both of which will give you accurate and reproducible references against which to process.

Take a look here>http://xritephoto.com/colorchecker-passport-photo. There are other similar products.

Last edited by JohnX; 03-29-2017 at 07:13 AM.

Oldbayrunner · 03-29-2017, 07:08 AM

Basically you don't, the image on the thumbnail is showing the image using the cameras processing engine the best you can do is have the exposure correct as possible.. The Imported raw image lacks very little to no processing prior to importing into any raw imaging software. When imported the image you see is that software's initial engine processing then it is up to you to make the adjustments until you achieve the look you want.

CarlJF · 03-29-2017, 07:18 AM

Is your computer screen calibrated ? If not, it's certainly a good first step to get the tones right...

Use the "Natural" jpg setting on the camera. This is close to the raw. But remember that what you see on the camera LCD isn't the raw file but the jpeg, even if you shot in raw only. So, there will always be some more or less subtle differences between what you see on the LCD and the look of the unedited raw in LR. As awscreo mentioned, it could help in LR to use the embedded profile instead of the Adobe one.

If you really care about the tones, looking at the LCD isn't really the best thing to do. Sure, it could give you some idea if something is really wrong (like the WB). But fine tuning should be done on a properly calibrated screen and not on the camera LCD.

ShellyRosenberg · 03-29-2017, 07:19 AM

Originally posted by JohnX

What's actually seen on the LCD is a jpeg thumbnail image regardless of whether you're shooting RAW or not, and will therefore be processed to some extent.

You can, and should, adjust the LCD image to reflect as best as possible the scene you're shooting. You'll find adjustments in the set-up menu for LCD Display Settings, in which you will be able to adjust brightness, saturation and colour.

As you're using LR you'll be able to adjust skin tones, etc, but I agree it's good practice to try and get it right in camera. One quick way to get this right is to take a test shot incorporating something like a grey card, or colour passport, both of which will give you accurate and reproducible references against which to process.

Take a look here>ColorChecker Passport - Camera & Image Calibration: X-Rite Photo & Video. There are other similar products.

I just took a photo, then changed those LCD Display Settings, and took another photo. However they actually seem to be the same color. I am really struggling with this. Shelly

awscreo · 03-29-2017, 07:20 AM

Originally posted by ShellyRosenberg

I do not know what you mean by switching profiles at the bottom of the control panel. On my camera? I have the K3 and the K3ii. Where can I find those settings?
thans

In lightroom, go into Develop module, scroll the panel on the right all the way to the bottom, you'll see camera profiles there. Adobe applies it's Adobe Standard by default, I find it's not very accurate for pentax files. You can switch to different profiles with the drop out menu in the panel, see which one looks the closest to the jpeg (which applies the Pentax profile when processed in body). If you want raws to look identical to the jpegs, I believe you'll have to use SilkyPix - free raw developer provided by Pentax. You can open raw in there, and export 16bit tiff for further processing in Lightroom if you find SilkyPix not very user friendly or powerful (I certainly do).

VoiceOfReason · 03-29-2017, 07:32 AM

Shoot a test image as Raw +, then pull in both the jpeg and the raw file. Open them and then compare them to what you see. Most likely the jpeg will look the same as what you see on the rear lcd.

ShellyRosenberg · 03-29-2017, 08:03 AM

Yes, I took a photo in Raw+ and did as you said, and got the results you mention.
Thanks.
So, it seems that I have to realize while out shooting that my LCD will show a more saturated and more red version of my photo because the raw file is really the more correct color but while out shooting I cannot check to see what I actually have unless I carry my laptop with me (HA HA).

Scintilla · 03-29-2017, 08:14 AM

Looking at the sample you posted, I have to ask: is it not just a difference of white balance? I don't know what white balance Lightroom is applying, but if you set the camera's white balance to Tungsten, is the resulting LCD thumbnail more like what you expect?

I would often find with my K-30 that the camera's auto white balance never compensated enough for indoor "soft white" lighting, and I usually found myself switching manually to Tungsten WB in those situations.

**newmikey** · 03-29-2017, 08:18 AM

Any chance this is a color profile issue i.e. AdobeRGB set on the camera?

awscreo · 03-29-2017, 08:25 AM

Originally posted by ShellyRosenberg

Yes, I took a photo in Raw+ and did as you said, and got the results you mention.
Thanks.
So, it seems that I have to realize while out shooting that my LCD will show a more saturated and more red version of my photo because the raw file is really the more correct color but while out shooting I cannot check to see what I actually have unless I carry my laptop with me (HA HA).

RAW just flattens the tonal range as far as I know, at least in Lightroom. That's why almost always a curve adjustment or contrast adjustment is required in post. Have you looked at profile settings in the Develop module? That should get you closer to the color in the jpeg (if Lightroom has profiles for your camera).

ShellyRosenberg · 03-29-2017, 08:26 AM

Originally posted by Scintilla

Looking at the sample you posted, I have to ask: is it not just a difference of white balance? I don't know what white balance Lightroom is applying, but if you set the camera's white balance to Tungsten, is the resulting LCD thumbnail more like what you expect?

I would often find with my K-30 that the camera's auto white balance never compensated enough for indoor "soft white" lighting, and I usually found myself switching manually to Tungsten WB in those situations.

I think that may be the factor. I had white balance set to auto I believe. thanks

awscreo · 03-29-2017, 08:28 AM

Originally posted by Scintilla

Looking at the sample you posted, I have to ask: is it not just a difference of white balance? I don't know what white balance Lightroom is applying, but if you set the camera's white balance to Tungsten, is the resulting LCD thumbnail more like what you expect?

I would often find with my K-30 that the camera's auto white balance never compensated enough for indoor "soft white" lighting, and I usually found myself switching manually to Tungsten WB in those situations.

Lightroom should apply "Camera" white balance on import, unless you specify otherwise (I believe there's an option for that). So white balance should be the same as in jpeg.

03-29-2017, 06:46 AM	#1
ShellyRosenberg New Member Join Date: May 2014 Photos: Gallery Posts: 14	K3 and K3ii - color on LCD different from raw file brought into Lightroom Particularly when taking photos indoors, the LCD thumbnail is very different from the raw file brought into Lightroom. Actually as it is brought in the photo looks like the LCD and then changes. How can I get my LCD to be more like the raw photo - which has the natural coloring? How can I know when taking my photo (when I look at the LCD) that I have the color tones I want without having to wait until I get into Lightroom? (I have just exported the raw file into a jpeg for visibility here). See attachments Shelly Rosenberg Attached Images

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03-29-2017, 06:55 AM	#2
awscreo Veteran Member Join Date: May 2016 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,722	You might want to try switching profiles at the bottom of the control panel. Standard Adobe one is rubbish imo. I use dng and switch to Embedded on import.

03-29-2017, 07:04 AM	#3
ShellyRosenberg New Member Join Date: May 2014 Photos: Gallery Posts: 14 Original Poster	Originally posted by awscreo You might want to try switching profiles at the bottom of the control panel. Standard Adobe one is rubbish imo. I use dng and switch to Embedded on import. I do not know what you mean by switching profiles at the bottom of the control panel. On my camera? I have the K3 and the K3ii. Where can I find those settings? thans

03-29-2017, 07:06 AM	#4
JohnX Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: London Posts: 1,116	What's actually seen on the LCD is a jpeg thumbnail image regardless of whether you're shooting RAW or not, and will therefore be processed to some extent. You can, and should, adjust the LCD image to reflect as best as possible the scene you're shooting. You'll find adjustments in the set-up menu for LCD Display Settings, in which you will be able to adjust brightness, saturation and colour. As you're using LR you'll be able to adjust skin tones, etc, but I agree it's good practice to try and get it right in camera. One quick way to get this right is to take a test shot incorporating something like a grey card, or colour passport, both of which will give you accurate and reproducible references against which to process. Take a look here>http://xritephoto.com/colorchecker-passport-photo. There are other similar products. Last edited by JohnX; 03-29-2017 at 07:13 AM.

03-29-2017, 07:08 AM	#5
Oldbayrunner Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 1,665	Basically you don't, the image on the thumbnail is showing the image using the cameras processing engine the best you can do is have the exposure correct as possible.. The Imported raw image lacks very little to no processing prior to importing into any raw imaging software. When imported the image you see is that software's initial engine processing then it is up to you to make the adjustments until you achieve the look you want.

03-29-2017, 07:18 AM	#6
CarlJF Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Quebec City Posts: 1,185	Is your computer screen calibrated ? If not, it's certainly a good first step to get the tones right... Use the "Natural" jpg setting on the camera. This is close to the raw. But remember that what you see on the camera LCD isn't the raw file but the jpeg, even if you shot in raw only. So, there will always be some more or less subtle differences between what you see on the LCD and the look of the unedited raw in LR. As awscreo mentioned, it could help in LR to use the embedded profile instead of the Adobe one. If you really care about the tones, looking at the LCD isn't really the best thing to do. Sure, it could give you some idea if something is really wrong (like the WB). But fine tuning should be done on a properly calibrated screen and not on the camera LCD.

03-29-2017, 07:19 AM	#7
ShellyRosenberg New Member Join Date: May 2014 Photos: Gallery Posts: 14 Original Poster	Originally posted by JohnX What's actually seen on the LCD is a jpeg thumbnail image regardless of whether you're shooting RAW or not, and will therefore be processed to some extent. You can, and should, adjust the LCD image to reflect as best as possible the scene you're shooting. You'll find adjustments in the set-up menu for LCD Display Settings, in which you will be able to adjust brightness, saturation and colour. As you're using LR you'll be able to adjust skin tones, etc, but I agree it's good practice to try and get it right in camera. One quick way to get this right is to take a test shot incorporating something like a grey card, or colour passport, both of which will give you accurate and reproducible references against which to process. Take a look here>ColorChecker Passport - Camera & Image Calibration: X-Rite Photo & Video. There are other similar products. I just took a photo, then changed those LCD Display Settings, and took another photo. However they actually seem to be the same color. I am really struggling with this. Shelly

03-29-2017, 07:20 AM	#8
awscreo Veteran Member Join Date: May 2016 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,722	Originally posted by ShellyRosenberg I do not know what you mean by switching profiles at the bottom of the control panel. On my camera? I have the K3 and the K3ii. Where can I find those settings? thans In lightroom, go into Develop module, scroll the panel on the right all the way to the bottom, you'll see camera profiles there. Adobe applies it's Adobe Standard by default, I find it's not very accurate for pentax files. You can switch to different profiles with the drop out menu in the panel, see which one looks the closest to the jpeg (which applies the Pentax profile when processed in body). If you want raws to look identical to the jpegs, I believe you'll have to use SilkyPix - free raw developer provided by Pentax. You can open raw in there, and export 16bit tiff for further processing in Lightroom if you find SilkyPix not very user friendly or powerful (I certainly do).

03-29-2017, 07:32 AM	#9
VoiceOfReason Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Mishawaka IN area Photos: Albums Posts: 6,124	Shoot a test image as Raw +, then pull in both the jpeg and the raw file. Open them and then compare them to what you see. Most likely the jpeg will look the same as what you see on the rear lcd.

03-29-2017, 08:03 AM	#10
ShellyRosenberg New Member Join Date: May 2014 Photos: Gallery Posts: 14 Original Poster	Yes, I took a photo in Raw+ and did as you said, and got the results you mention. Thanks. So, it seems that I have to realize while out shooting that my LCD will show a more saturated and more red version of my photo because the raw file is really the more correct color but while out shooting I cannot check to see what I actually have unless I carry my laptop with me (HA HA).

03-29-2017, 08:14 AM	#11
Scintilla Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2013 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 347	Looking at the sample you posted, I have to ask: is it not just a difference of white balance? I don't know what white balance Lightroom is applying, but if you set the camera's white balance to Tungsten, is the resulting LCD thumbnail more like what you expect? I would often find with my K-30 that the camera's auto white balance never compensated enough for indoor "soft white" lighting, and I usually found myself switching manually to Tungsten WB in those situations.

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03-29-2017, 08:18 AM	#12
newmikey Site Supporter Join Date: May 2007 Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,287	Any chance this is a color profile issue i.e. AdobeRGB set on the camera?

03-29-2017, 08:25 AM	#13
awscreo Veteran Member Join Date: May 2016 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,722	Originally posted by ShellyRosenberg Yes, I took a photo in Raw+ and did as you said, and got the results you mention. Thanks. So, it seems that I have to realize while out shooting that my LCD will show a more saturated and more red version of my photo because the raw file is really the more correct color but while out shooting I cannot check to see what I actually have unless I carry my laptop with me (HA HA). RAW just flattens the tonal range as far as I know, at least in Lightroom. That's why almost always a curve adjustment or contrast adjustment is required in post. Have you looked at profile settings in the Develop module? That should get you closer to the color in the jpeg (if Lightroom has profiles for your camera).

03-29-2017, 08:26 AM	#14
ShellyRosenberg New Member Join Date: May 2014 Photos: Gallery Posts: 14 Original Poster	Originally posted by Scintilla Looking at the sample you posted, I have to ask: is it not just a difference of white balance? I don't know what white balance Lightroom is applying, but if you set the camera's white balance to Tungsten, is the resulting LCD thumbnail more like what you expect? I would often find with my K-30 that the camera's auto white balance never compensated enough for indoor "soft white" lighting, and I usually found myself switching manually to Tungsten WB in those situations. I think that may be the factor. I had white balance set to auto I believe. thanks

03-29-2017, 08:28 AM	#15
awscreo Veteran Member Join Date: May 2016 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,722	Originally posted by Scintilla Looking at the sample you posted, I have to ask: is it not just a difference of white balance? I don't know what white balance Lightroom is applying, but if you set the camera's white balance to Tungsten, is the resulting LCD thumbnail more like what you expect? I would often find with my K-30 that the camera's auto white balance never compensated enough for indoor "soft white" lighting, and I usually found myself switching manually to Tungsten WB in those situations. Lightroom should apply "Camera" white balance on import, unless you specify otherwise (I believe there's an option for that). So white balance should be the same as in jpeg.