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03-22-2018, 04:29 AM   #286
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QuoteOriginally posted by x4rd Quote
I have two K-3 and consider buying A6000 because of the very bad video in 3 series. What Ricoh should do is to upgrade the video capabilities, as fellow colleagues Pentaxians mentioned already in this topic. FHD/60p in 48 mbit/s is already enough for a good start in videography. Having sealed body and lenses is a killer deal in high capability videography. I would love to have that package in Pentax.

Therefore, by upgrading AF and video, Ricoh could turn the tide and gain market share. Marketing would just follow.
I could not agree more. (currently I am using a7s for video).

03-22-2018, 06:33 AM   #287
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As I posted elsewhere based on my recent conversation with Ricoh healthcare rep, it appears to me they are more interested in investing in other areas of the firm than Pentax Camera. This makes sense as everything keeps getting delayed.
03-22-2018, 07:04 AM - 2 Likes   #288
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pentax_WA Quote
As I posted elsewhere based on my recent conversation with Ricoh healthcare rep, it appears to me they are more interested in investing in other areas of the firm than Pentax Camera. This makes sense as everything keeps getting delayed.
I really discount a lot of what the Ricoh healthcare rep told you. I understand that he acted somewhat knowledgeable, however, it feels to me as though folks on that side of things wouldn't know as much about the imaging side of Ricoh. But more than that, North American reps are completely unaware of what is going on in Japan until fairly close to the time of release of items. There are a select group of folks in Asia who actually know what Ricoh's plans are and where they are going with things, but I very much doubt that those people are going to be repping at a healthcare show.

I have said before that overall the rumor mill tends to be a Rorschach ink blot. If you are optimistic, you see positive things, DFA *50 coming out, a new version of the K-1, K3 III coming by the end of the year -- an 11-16 lens and probably more redesigns of the other DA * lenses. If you are a pessimist, you don't focus on this, but rather on the delayed releases and the fact that the products you wanted six months ago are still six months away.

The truth is probably somewhere between these two views, but I do think that the overall predominance of facts favors a company that is planning to continue to support the K mount and both full frame and APS-C cameras now and in the future.

That is a good thing in my book.
03-22-2018, 07:20 AM - 2 Likes   #289
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pentax_WA Quote
As I posted elsewhere based on my recent conversation with Ricoh healthcare rep, it appears to me they are more interested in investing in other areas of the firm than Pentax Camera. This makes sense as everything keeps getting delayed.
And that is a non information even if based on Ricoh specific facts. That is what the whole industry does. Wihtout exception.

Sinking ship Nikon is struggling to find business areas outside ILC photography where they can make money to avoid having to fire even more people. Their profits are best in precision instruments.
Struggling Sony sensor business is downsizing camera sensors and shifting as much as they can to smartphone sensors.
Canon, while being the single remaining large camera player, is now focussing on commercial printing services.

No one dares invest primarily in their ILC business.

03-22-2018, 08:09 AM   #290
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Also holding out for the K3 replacement. And the 11-18 to go with it (much faster than I need, but the quality must blow everything).
If you take the best specs from K3ii/K1II, all they really must improve are AF, buffer, and card write speed (or maybe put two SD controllers for parallel writing).
Video? You're better off buying a proper video camera. USB3? If you don't put all your egs in 1 basket, you already have a USB3 card reader anyway. I think I only downloaded pics straight from the camera once, since I owned a K10...


I'm particularly worried about the part in the interview where he says they're "starting development" on the APS flagship. I hope that means they're starting to integrate their best technologies, and not really starting the process, because a camera like that isn't developed in less than a year, unless they make a K3iii just by throwing in their best stuff. Anyway, won't jump ship. In an emergency there are still some K3 for sale, new ii or used original.
03-22-2018, 08:32 AM - 2 Likes   #291
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!'m a patient man......I just bought a used K3 and I'm out shooting pics instead of worrying about the next shiny thing that comes out, but when the next shiny thing comes out, I will give it a few years and maybe buy one for pennies on the dollar when folks are dumping those for the next shiny thing.....
03-22-2018, 08:38 AM - 1 Like   #292
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pentax_WA Quote
As I posted elsewhere based on my recent conversation with Ricoh healthcare rep, it appears to me they are more interested in investing in other areas of the firm than Pentax Camera. This makes sense as everything keeps getting delayed.
QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
I really discount a lot of what the Ricoh healthcare rep told you. I understand that he acted somewhat knowledgeable, however, it feels to me as though folks on that side of things wouldn't know as much about the imaging side of Ricoh. But more than that, North American reps are completely unaware of what is going on in Japan until fairly close to the time of release of items. There are a select group of folks in Asia who actually know what Ricoh's plans are and where they are going with things, but I very much doubt that those people are going to be repping at a healthcare show.

I have said before that overall the rumor mill tends to be a Rorschach ink blot. If you are optimistic, you see positive things, DFA *50 coming out, a new version of the K-1, K3 III coming by the end of the year -- an 11-16 lens and probably more redesigns of the other DA * lenses. If you are a pessimist, you don't focus on this, but rather on the delayed releases and the fact that the products you wanted six months ago are still six months away.

The truth is probably somewhere between these two views, but I do think that the overall predominance of facts favors a company that is planning to continue to support the K mount and both full frame and APS-C cameras now and in the future.

That is a good thing in my book.
QuoteOriginally posted by beholder3 Quote
And that is a non information even if based on Ricoh specific facts. That is what the whole industry does. Wihtout exception.

Sinking ship Nikon is struggling to find business areas outside ILC photography where they can make money to avoid having to fire even more people. Their profits are best in precision instruments.
Struggling Sony sensor business is downsizing camera sensors and shifting as much as they can to smartphone sensors.
Canon, while being the single remaining large camera player, is now focussing on commercial printing services.

No one dares invest primarily in their ILC business.
General Knowlege, available to virtually any management executive (and spread throughout the sales force by word of mouth down the management tree): ROE Medical Equipment = 20%. ROE Consumer Electronics: (Camera Equipment) = 8%. Related Nikon or Sony or Ricoh (or Hoya) products are in between. Even in lower ROE areas growth matters, so Theta is attractive and throws off cash flow.

None of this is news. Pentax as a brand (Ricoh Imaging) has been successfully operating under this regimen for several years now. Saying the same things over and over (PID) and expecting a different outcome is the definition of insanity.
03-22-2018, 09:07 AM - 1 Like   #293
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
General Knowlege, available to virtually any management executive (and spread throughout the sales force by word of mouth down the management tree): ROE Medical Equipment = 20%. ROE Consumer Electronics: (Camera Equipment) = 8%. Related Nikon or Sony or Ricoh (or Hoya) products are in between. Even in lower ROE areas growth matters, so Theta is attractive and throws off cash flow.

None of this is news. Pentax as a brand (Ricoh Imaging) has been successfully operating under this regimen for several years now. Saying the same things over and over (PID) and expecting a different outcome is the definition of insanity.
Perhaps also explains why outfits like Olympus and Fuji are keeping their camera ops fairly small and tight as a percentage of the overall business. However, associating success with the current camera industry is probably insane too. Collectively they've scored more own goals over the past decade than you'd see in Monty Python's philosophers playing football


Last edited by mecrox; 03-22-2018 at 09:14 AM.
03-22-2018, 10:28 AM - 1 Like   #294
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QuoteOriginally posted by mecrox Quote
Perhaps also explains why outfits like Olympus and Fuji are keeping their camera ops fairly small and tight as a percentage of the overall business. However, associating success with the current camera industry is probably insane too. Collectively they've scored more own goals over the past decade than you'd see in Monty Python's philosophers playing football
Things do change. Bayonet Mount happened. SMC Patents expired. Digital happened. Soccer Moms happened. MILC happened.

My wife’s great-grandmother’s family owned one of the premier carriage makers in New England for 100 years (until 1920) . . .

Last edited by monochrome; 03-22-2018 at 10:54 AM.
03-22-2018, 10:41 AM - 1 Like   #295
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QuoteOriginally posted by The Squirrel Mafia Quote
I must admit that Sony, Panasonic, & Olympus are tempting me with their recent cameras & lenses. They're making it hard for me to resist the urge of unloading my Pentax gear & jumping ship, but I'm dead set on waiting for that K-3II replacement & I won't be buying anything until it comes out. I have a feeling that it's going to take a decent leap in AF performance. Not like a Nikon D500 or Canon 7D Mark II type of leap in AF performance, but something that will have much better AF tracking & single point shooting than anything Pentax currently offers & I'll dare say that the AF performance will probably be better than what the K-1II will offer. Something tells me that the Pentax DA 55-300mm PLM lens & whatever other fast focusing lenses that will eventually come out are going to fly on that body.

I'm really looking forward to it. Even if it turns out to be a dud, which I highly doubt, I'll win either way. A lot of other manufacturers already have some pretty great cameras & lenses out right now & I can only imagine they will bring in 2019 or even 2020, so I'll get to pick whatever I think will work out better for me. It's like a win-win for me.

As for now, I'm doing fine with my K-50 bodies & 5 lenses. Hopefully those bodies can make it until then. I already had to replace the aperture motor in my black K-50.

So who else is dead set on waiting for that K-3II replacement?

Or has the "grass started looking more greener" for you elsewhere? Hmmm....
Both. I got the KP to go with the DA560, and although not a dedicated wildlife body, I find the overall IQ a real upgrade to the K3. The images have much less of the grain that the K3 had, and colors in many situations are richer. Also the AF is more decisive and definitly faster and more responsive. In good light and contrast, this is a benefit. But the benefit evaporates when the contrast and light are not optimal, and although hunting less, you will not get critical focus consistently. Which is what a birder is looking for, to not let go to waste unique photographic moments and opportunities.
So because of that, and because I more and more value portability, I have decided that the KP will be my last Pentax body.
After that, I will go for a Canon 7DIII, which should come out end of year or beginning next year, together with a Canon 400mm f4 DOII, and the 1.4 and 2.0 extenders, which appear to work very well with this lens.
It feels like time....

Chris
03-22-2018, 11:06 AM - 2 Likes   #296
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QuoteOriginally posted by Chris Mak Quote
Both. I got the KP to go with the DA560, and although not a dedicated wildlife body, I find the overall IQ a real upgrade to the K3. The images have much less of the grain that the K3 had, and colors in many situations are richer. Also the AF is more decisive and definitly faster and more responsive. In good light and contrast, this is a benefit. But the benefit evaporates when the contrast and light are not optimal, and although hunting less, you will not get critical focus consistently. Which is what a birder is looking for, to not let go to waste unique photographic moments and opportunities.
So because of that, and because I more and more value portability, I have decided that the KP will be my last Pentax body.
After that, I will go for a Canon 7DIII, which should come out end of year or beginning next year, together with a Canon 400mm f4 DOII, and the 1.4 and 2.0 extenders, which appear to work very well with this lens.
It feels like time....

Chris
You have a lot of money in lenses in Pentax but you have decided that the new Canon which is perhaps marginally farther along in development than the K-3 II replacement, but you have decided based on vaporware that you will change before either is out as even a prototype? Must be nice to have tons of money to throw at new gear like you are planning to do. Love my new KP but since I don 't use it for making a living, I can't argue with making a similar choice in some future time period. I just don't get making a decision before the information to make a smart (for you, and your needs,) decision is available.
03-22-2018, 11:46 AM - 1 Like   #297
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QuoteOriginally posted by SSGGeezer Quote
You have a lot of money in lenses in Pentax but you have decided that the new Canon which is perhaps marginally farther along in development than the K-3 II replacement, but you have decided based on vaporware that you will change before either is out as even a prototype? Must be nice to have tons of money to throw at new gear like you are planning to do. Love my new KP but since I don 't use it for making a living, I can't argue with making a similar choice in some future time period. I just don't get making a decision before the information to make a smart (for you, and your needs,) decision is available.
In truth the decision is for the lens, and not so much for the camera. I am sure the K3mkIII will knock the Canon 7DIII for IQ no matter what sensor Canon can come up with. The KP is as much as you can wish for in an APSC camera IQ wise anyway. But talk about a cutting edge birding lens with matching AF, and the reality is in my case that I have to go Canon. If you do a lot of birding, you will know that AF missing by a hair is a missed opportunity. When using a car with a window mount it is less of a problem, or when shooting from a tripod or support, but I always cycle or hike, so I was growing towards a high end but also portable telelens that works very well with 1.4 and 2.0 extenders. And that has the AF I have always hoping for Pentax to develop. Next to that, the DA560, great lens that it is, is absolutely hopeless at tracking BIF, something that I want ot get into also. The Canon 400mm f4 DOII with 1.4 extender turns into a DA560 like f5.6 lens, but with still superb tracking ability.

The Canon 7DIII is not so much vapour ware, the 7DII gives a pretty good idea what to expect, but with newer class sensor and AF. Gowing to a Canon sensor is not that exciting, a bit scary if you are used to the best Sony sensors, but the newer Canon FF sensors are very good.
I can recommend the KP though, it is a very nice camera, and I will be enjoying it a lot until I switch.


Chris

Last edited by Chris Mak; 03-22-2018 at 12:02 PM.
03-22-2018, 11:59 AM   #298
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QuoteOriginally posted by Chris Mak Quote
In good light and contrast, this is a benefit. But the benefit evaporates when the contrast and light are not optimal, and although hunting less, you will not get critical focus consistently. Which is what a birder is looking for, to not let go to waste unique photographic moments and opportunities.
So because of that, and because I more and more value portability, I have decided that the KP will be my last Pentax body.
After that, I will go for a Canon 7DIII, which should come out end of year or beginning next year, together with a Canon 400mm f4 DOII, and the 1.4 and 2.0 extenders, which appear to work very well with this lens.
It feels like time....
Chris - plenty will pile on and gang attack this post you have made but my questions are honest and I have no bones to pick:

1) Given that the 7Dii is a worse performing sensor than the plane old K-3 - is there news in Canon land that indicates they are making big improvements that will reduce this delta between the Canon and Sony APSC sensors?

2) Why Canon not Nikon? Nikon seems to have the upper edge on sensor and focus vs. Canon - at least from my perspective reading about them. However I don't shoot birds. Is there a special benefit to Canon over Nikon (or Sony etc) that applies here?

3) You mention portability - m43 seems to be quite capable and has some lovely telephoto lenses - and in some cases can even Autofocus Canon EF lenses - sometimes as fast or faster than native use. The crop factor and the 20mp sensors seem ideal for this and shouldn't be worse than Canon on the latest generation of sensors for low light and bit depth. (Assuming there is no massive upswing from Canon in their sensors over past trends). Is this on your radar at all?

(Seriously I am asking because I enjoy understanding other people's reasons for decisions. I am not baiting but others may bite - if so I apologize.)

EDIT: It might be worth creating a separate thread for this as this is the news/rumors thread about the new K3.

Last edited by UncleVanya; 03-22-2018 at 12:07 PM.
03-22-2018, 12:11 PM   #299
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My son uses a 7Dll for Sports/Action publication (50,000 shutter releases a year) and is quite pleased with tracking AF, focus speed and IQ (for that purpose) using 24-70 L, 70-210 IS L and 300mm IS L lenses.
03-22-2018, 12:16 PM   #300
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QuoteOriginally posted by UncleVanya Quote
Chris - plenty will pile on and gang attack this post you have made but my questions are honest and I have no bones to pick:
Why? Have they not heard about the high end Canon super tele lenses? Following some of the wildlife/birding fora and I learned by means of seeing many images, that the Canon 400mm f4 DOII is a fantastic lens that turns into a still spectacular 560/f5.6 and still very good 800mm/f8 with both extenders, while keeping below 2,5 kg weight. It is no competition to Pentax, because Pentax does not make such a lens (in that class).
QuoteOriginally posted by UncleVanya Quote
1) Given that the 7Dii is a worse performing sensor than the plane old K-3 - is there news in Canon land that indicates they are making big improvements that will reduce this delta between the Canon and Sony APSC sensors?
The Canon sensors have kept me away from Canon so far, but with the latest Canon FF sensors, things are (somewhat) looking up. Still not Sony level at all though...
QuoteOriginally posted by UncleVanya Quote
2) Why Canon not Nikon? Nikon seems to have the upper edge on sensor and focus vs. Canon - at least from my perspective reading about them. However I don't shoot birds. Is there a special benefit to Canon over Nikon (or Sony etc) that applies here?
I thought hard about the new Sigma 500mm f4S with a Nikon D500, but as I explained in another post, portability is becoming more and more important to me. The difference is 1 kg with the Canon lens and still 800 gr. with Canon lens and 1.4ext. I cycle and hike in nature a lot, and I have found that the DA560 + K3 and bag was just above the critical limit, meaning fatique etc...
QuoteOriginally posted by UncleVanya Quote
3) You mention portability - m43 seems to be quite capable and has some lovely telephoto lenses - and in some cases can even Autofocus Canon EF lenses - sometimes as fast or faster than native use. The crop factor and the 20mp sensors seem ideal for this and shouldn't be worse than Canon on the latest generation of sensors for low light and bit depth. (Assuming there is no massive upswing from Canon in their sensors over past trends). Is this on your radar at all?
As an ex-Olympus user, that had three SHG Zuiko lense, I can say that I will personally never go to the 4/3 sensor again. Not meaning to bash the wonderful new m4/3 Olympus system, but no, not for me. It is either APS-C or FF.
QuoteOriginally posted by UncleVanya Quote
(Seriously I am asking because I enjoy understanding other people's reasons for decisions. I am not baiting but others may bite - if so I apologize.)
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