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05-20-2019, 12:47 PM - 1 Like   #916
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35Mpix canon APS-C will have horrible noise and dynamic range unless canon guys found some miracle recipe. But if they stick around 22-26mpix, that might be interesting machine.

Concerning KP vs K5/K3 series.. KP only offers slightly better hi-iso than K3, all other aspects are worse. Buffer (10x raw is laughable), FPS, card writing, battery life, shutter speed and life, IR ports, separate cable release jack, top display, PZ support, ergonomy.

Of course if you are just random turist shooting few pics on hiking trip into jpg, you don't care. (Then even K70 is great machine for you and you can save money.)

But if you are used to shoot serious stuff like reports, weddings, sport actions, racing etc, where quick response and controls ergonomy is critical. for long hours with camera in hand using different F2.8 zooms or telephotos, flashes etc. and bring home 800+ raw/day, Then you quickly notice how inadequate KP is for this task and how even original K3 mk1 beats it right away.
KP simply belongs to K-01, KS1, KS2 line of special cameras. Retro looking slightly advanced K70 brother. Not a bad camera, but definitely not top-tier APS-C machine like K7/K5/K3.

And I hope that they manage to prepare something better than KPII.. that case would be the last slap.

06-05-2019, 10:03 AM   #917
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I've got fed up waiting for the K3 successor so have got an Olympus EM1 mkII on Pro loan from Olympus UK, a very nice camera and the Pro lenses are fantastic...looks like I'll soon be an Olympus shooter.
06-05-2019, 10:16 AM - 1 Like   #918
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QuoteOriginally posted by mille19 Quote
I've got fed up waiting for the K3 successor so have got an Olympus EM1 mkII on Pro loan from Olympus UK
Like other brands, Olympus makes good cameras, which produce fine images. Good to have a choice.

May I ask which Pentax camera(s) you were using, and what were the deficiencies in your context? What features or performance had you been hoping for in a new Pentax camera?


- Craig

Last edited by c.a.m; 06-05-2019 at 10:40 AM.
06-05-2019, 10:53 AM   #919
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QuoteOriginally posted by mille19 Quote
I've got fed up waiting for the K3 successor so have got an Olympus EM1 mkII on Pro loan from Olympus UK, a very nice camera and the Pro lenses are fantastic...looks like I'll soon be an Olympus shooter.
It's all good. I do get to use my dad's original OMD E-M1 with PRO lenses at times & the IQ is fantastic up to ISO 6400. I can only imagine the Mark II.

I have been tempted by the Olympus E-M1 Mark II & the Panasonic G9 on many occasions, but I'm still holding off. I'm in no rush for now. The camera industry is still going through a major shakedown. My guess is that there will be lots of interesting things revealed at CP+ 2020.

06-05-2019, 11:34 PM - 1 Like   #920
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QuoteOriginally posted by c.a.m Quote
Like other brands, Olympus makes good cameras, which produce fine images. Good to have a choice.

May I ask which Pentax camera(s) you were using, and what were the deficiencies in your context? What features or performance had you been hoping for in a new Pentax camera?


- Craig
I'm using 2x K3 II and a K5. Autofocus is the main problem I didn't realise how slow the Pentax are until I've used the Olympus, I think this is more to do with the lenses than the body.

Also I'm looking at lightening the load a bit the Olympus Pro lenses are a lot smaller and give fantastic image quality, the 40-150mm F2.8 gives a 80-300mm F2.8 equivalent in a lot smaller size which is easy to hand hold.
I can get the EM1 mkII with 12-40mm Pro and 40-150mm Pro lenses and this give me a 24-300mm F2.8 range in a really small kit, easy to carry around the Lake District fells :-)

---------- Post added 06-06-19 at 08:28 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by UncleVanya Quote
Please note - some mirrorless lenses and cameras are huge compared to others. There is no great benefit in size to a G9 Panasonic with a Olympus 40-150 f2.8 on it compared to a KP with the DFA* 70-200 f2.8. But if you are invested in the ecosystem, sometimes it is worth stretching to a larger size in the same lineup to avoid maintaining multiple systems. (I don't subscribe to this view, I have both m43 and K).

EDIT - I selected the wrong lenses at first. These are closer in angle of view and quality.
I beg to differ here the DFA* 70-200 f2.8 is huge compared to the Oly 40-150mm Pro, I'm sure the KP and DFA* 70-200mm would be a lot heavier than the G9 and Oly 40-150.
I've used the Olympus EM1 mkii and 40-150mm pro and it is a lot lighter than my K3 and sigma 70-200mm, it almost feels like you're cheating getting the 300mm reach on such a small combo.

Last edited by mille19; 06-06-2019 at 12:30 AM.
06-06-2019, 02:45 AM   #921
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QuoteOriginally posted by mille19 Quote
I'm using 2x K3 II and a K5. Autofocus is the main problem I didn't realise how slow the Pentax are until I've used the Olympus, I think this is more to do with the lenses than the body.

Also I'm looking at lightening the load a bit the Olympus Pro lenses are a lot smaller and give fantastic image quality, the 40-150mm F2.8 gives a 80-300mm F2.8 equivalent in a lot smaller size which is easy to hand hold.
I can get the EM1 mkII with 12-40mm Pro and 40-150mm Pro lenses and this give me a 24-300mm F2.8 range in a really small kit, easy to carry around the Lake District fells :-)

---------- Post added 06-06-19 at 08:28 AM ----------



I beg to differ here the DFA* 70-200 f2.8 is huge compared to the Oly 40-150mm Pro, I'm sure the KP and DFA* 70-200mm would be a lot heavier than the G9 and Oly 40-150.
I've used the Olympus EM1 mkii and 40-150mm pro and it is a lot lighter than my K3 and sigma 70-200mm, it almost feels like you're cheating getting the 300mm reach on such a small combo.
You should shoot with what makes you happy and if that's Olympus, then that's great.

I do get a little peeved when people talk about 300mm reach on micro four thirds cameras. You have a 20 megapixel camera with a smaller sensor than the K3 which has 24 megapixels, so your extra reach is whatever the increased pixel density of the Olympus lets you get to, nothing more or less. If you had a full frame camera with the same pixel density as the Olympus you would have no "extra" reach as you could just crop your 60 megapixel full frame to micro four thirds size. I am sure you know what you are talking about, but new users all seem to get confused by this stuff and a 150mm lens is 150mm regardless of what size sensor it is mounted on.
06-06-2019, 03:14 AM   #922
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
You should shoot with what makes you happy and if that's Olympus, then that's great.

I do get a little peeved when people talk about 300mm reach on micro four thirds cameras. You have a 20 megapixel camera with a smaller sensor than the K3 which has 24 megapixels, so your extra reach is whatever the increased pixel density of the Olympus lets you get to, nothing more or less. If you had a full frame camera with the same pixel density as the Olympus you would have no "extra" reach as you could just crop your 60 megapixel full frame to micro four thirds size. I am sure you know what you are talking about, but new users all seem to get confused by this stuff and a 150mm lens is 150mm regardless of what size sensor it is mounted on.
That wouldn't change the size of the lenses though, compare the DFA 70-200mm F2.8 to the Oly 40-150mm Pro, as I get older it's nice to not have to lug that weight around.
I'm looking at getting a kit together ready for my retirement, that's why I'm testing the Olympus system, up to now I'm very impressed with the EM1 mkII and Pro lenses.
06-06-2019, 03:23 AM   #923
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QuoteOriginally posted by mille19 Quote
That wouldn't change the size of the lenses though, compare the DFA 70-200mm F2.8 to the Oly 40-150mm Pro, as I get older it's nice to not have to lug that weight around.
I'm looking at getting a kit together ready for my retirement, that's why I'm testing the Olympus system, up to now I'm very impressed with the EM1 mkII and Pro lenses.
I don't think you follow what I am saying. I have a 135mm f2.8 that works great on my K-1. It is 68 by 80mm and weighs a whopping 375 grams. Mount it on a K-1 and it is a 135mm f2.8 lens. Mount it on your Olympus and it is a 270mm f2.8 lens? But it isn't. It is a 135mm f2.8 lens on both formats and if I had the same pixel density on the K-1 I could just digitally crop to a micro four thirds crop, making it look roughly like a 270mm lens and not lose a thing.

Lenses don't change focal length just because you make the sensor smaller and there are plenty of lenses in the Pentax line up that are quite a bit smaller than the DFA 70-200 (which I agree is a pretty hefty lens).

06-06-2019, 03:35 AM   #924
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote

Lenses don't change focal length just because you make the sensor smaller and there are plenty of lenses in the Pentax line up that are quite a bit smaller than the DFA 70-200 (which I agree is a pretty hefty lens).
I know what you're saying, I have the DA*16-50mm, 50-135*mm, DA*60-250mm, DA*300, DFA 150-450mm they are all fantastic lenses just too big and heavy to carry around.
The Olympus 300mm F4 Pro is slightly bigger than the DA*300mm but when mounted on the EM1 mkII it is giving me more reach and better image stabiliser than my K3 II and DA*300mm, it is a great walk-around wildlife kit, no monopod or tripod required.
06-06-2019, 07:52 PM   #925
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
I don't think you follow what I am saying. I have a 135mm f2.8 that works great on my K-1. It is 68 by 80mm and weighs a whopping 375 grams. Mount it on a K-1 and it is a 135mm f2.8 lens. Mount it on your Olympus and it is a 270mm f2.8 lens? But it isn't. It is a 135mm f2.8 lens on both formats and if I had the same pixel density on the K-1 I could just digitally crop to a micro four thirds crop, making it look roughly like a 270mm lens and not lose a thing.

Lenses don't change focal length just because you make the sensor smaller and there are plenty of lenses in the Pentax line up that are quite a bit smaller than the DFA 70-200 (which I agree is a pretty hefty lens).
Thats just not wrong enough to be misleading. Look at the Q or the LX-7. The format absolutely makes a difference what lens you need. You keep talking about if the sensors of the full frame was the same density, but it isn't the case at least not the k1. Also this ignores the effects on composition that seeing the lens in the viewfinder has on composition and the end result.
06-07-2019, 02:01 AM   #926
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QuoteOriginally posted by mille19 Quote
I've got fed up waiting for the K3 successor so have got an Olympus EM1 mkII on Pro loan from Olympus UK, a very nice camera and the Pro lenses are fantastic...looks like I'll soon be an Olympus shooter.
Enjoy your system. In the end it should be your choice that should be followed, not anybody else.
06-07-2019, 02:27 AM   #927
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QuoteOriginally posted by UncleVanya Quote
Thats just not wrong enough to be misleading. Look at the Q or the LX-7. The format absolutely makes a difference what lens you need. You keep talking about if the sensors of the full frame was the same density, but it isn't the case at least not the k1. Also this ignores the effects on composition that seeing the lens in the viewfinder has on composition and the end result.
I just don't really want to go down the equivalence portal, but I guess we can if you would like to. Maybe the point I should have made is that if you are going to convert the focal length, you should convert the aperture too. It just seems as though these discussions get really crazy and I didn't really want to open that discussion again.

Suffice to say that using a smaller sensor doesn't make your lenses longer, it just crops the view that they see and in point of fact, a K5 has no extra "length" when compared to a K-1 since an APS-C crop of a K-1 image is 15 megapixels.
06-07-2019, 07:26 PM   #928
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QuoteOriginally posted by xmeda Quote
35Mpix canon APS-C will have horrible noise and dynamic range unless canon guys found some miracle recipe. But if they stick around 22-26mpix, that might be interesting machine.

Concerning KP vs K5/K3 series.. KP only offers slightly better hi-iso than K3, all other aspects are worse. Buffer (10x raw is laughable), FPS, card writing, battery life, shutter speed and life, IR ports, separate cable release jack, top display, PZ support, ergonomy.

Of course if you are just random turist shooting few pics on hiking trip into jpg, you don't care. (Then even K70 is great machine for you and you can save money.)

But if you are used to shoot serious stuff like reports, weddings, sport actions, racing etc, where quick response and controls ergonomy is critical. for long hours with camera in hand using different F2.8 zooms or telephotos, flashes etc. and bring home 800+ raw/day, Then you quickly notice how inadequate KP is for this task and how even original K3 mk1 beats it right away.
KP simply belongs to K-01, KS1, KS2 line of special cameras. Retro looking slightly advanced K70 brother. Not a bad camera, but definitely not top-tier APS-C machine like K7/K5/K3.

And I hope that they manage to prepare something better than KPII.. that case would be the last slap.
Have you used a KP?? ISO limits are misleading - high ISO values are extremely useable on the KP, even without any PP; a web-site compared KP to Nikon D500, and found KP did much better at high ISO values. I have no way of comparing to K-3 family, but focusing on KP is also very good. Your comparison to K-30/50/S2/70 family is ludicrous because build quality of KP is so much better. Comments about ergonomic are idiosyncratic, but you do need to recognize that controls of KP are virtually same as those on K-1ii.

All of this is irrelevant, though, because Ricoh has said that K-3ii replacement will be next camera out the door.
06-07-2019, 09:04 PM - 4 Likes   #929
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QuoteOriginally posted by xmeda Quote
KP only offers slightly better hi-iso than K3, all other aspects are worse
I wouldn't call 1 to 1.5 stops better high-iso performance 'slightly better'. I'd call that significantly better.
5-axis SR is worse?
A tilt-screen is worse?
Improved AF tracking algorithms are worse?
Electronic Shutter option is worse?
100g lighter is worse?

We can have own preferences, but I think your characterization is a little inaccurate.

QuoteOriginally posted by xmeda Quote
KP simply belongs to K-01, KS1, KS2 line of special cameras.
I have a K-30, K-S2, KP, K-5iis sitting on my desk side by side. The KP definitely falls into the K-5iis camp in terms of build and feel. Design philosophy closely follows that other "amateur" camera..the K-1.


QuoteOriginally posted by xmeda Quote
Retro looking slightly advanced K70 brother.
You're on a roll...let me post this again to get some facts on the table.

KP vs K-70

Just a reminder of the some of the significant differences:

- Metering: 86K pixel vs 77 segment
- AF system: SAFOX11 (27 point) vs SAFOX 10 (11 point), plus new tracking algorithms
- Processor: Prime IV + accelerator vs Prime M II
- 3 Control wheels vs 2
- Shake Reduction: 5-axis SRII vs SR
- Ultrasonic DRII vs sensor shake DR
- Quiet shutter and motor aperture vs louder shutter and solenoid aperture.
- 7FPS vs 6FPS
- 5 user modes vs 3
- Magnesium body vs plastic.
- Electronic shutter option
- External battery grip option


KP is not for you, you need a K-3 type camera. Fair enough, no problem, but let's keep it real here.

Last edited by caliscouser; 1 Hour Ago at 05:34 PM.
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