AF Fine Adjustment Question!

**Larrymc** · 03-23-2018, 09:46 AM

I am in the process of calibrating my lenses with Lens Align MkII and Focus tune 4. The process is very time consuming if you use the recommended procedure, which I am using. There are 5 de-focus and focus shots for each of the fine tune settings 105 in all for each lens. Then a series of 10 de-focus and focus shots in a narrower range around the optimal setting.

My question is has anyone determined if the global setting "Apply All" and the per lens setting "Apply One" affect each other? For instance if I have a -9 dialed into "Apply One" and dial in a -10 will that move the focus point further to the minus end? I did some testing and the result is inconclusive. My personal opinion is that one doesn't affect the other although when doing real world shooting "Apply All" does seem to affect "Apply One" but that might be explained by "normal" shot to shot differences in autofocus.

Any and all opinions appreciated.

Larry

gmans · 03-23-2018, 10:02 AM

Fixing Front and Back Focus - Introduction - In-Depth Articles

might be this one help?

**Larrymc** · 03-23-2018, 10:14 AM

Originally posted by gmans

Fixing Front and Back Focus - Introduction - In-Depth Articles

might be this one help?

Thanks,

Nope, what I'm doing is using Lens Align MkII plus Focus Tune 4 which are Michael Tapes Designs products and designed to work together. it is much more detailed that the process you linked to although the link referred to an earlier process using Lens Align. My question is are the "Apply All' and the "Apply One" seperate and apart or does one affect the other?

Larry

gmans · 03-23-2018, 10:27 AM

Will beyond me at with this your question,

I adjust each lens per to each camera adjustment and only have the K3 to adjust for AF lens.

**UncleVanya** · 03-23-2018, 10:32 AM

I understand the question - but I don't have an answer. I tried experimentally testing and I can't decide. The apply all in theory applies to all - but your point is (I assume) does it apply to those lenses that have specific dialed in adjustments or does it ignore those lenses.

Practical example:
An FA lens is tested and needs +5, then...
A bunch of K, M, and A lenses are tested and a global setting of let's say -3 is found to be the best compromise.
Is the FA lens still dialed in or is it effectively at only +2 "net"?

**Larrymc** · 03-23-2018, 11:01 AM

Thanks UV, that is precisely my question. I'm like you, I can't decide by using just one lens to test, I guess I'll just have to go back through several of my AF lenses and do a full test. I've never seen a definitive answer, just some posts by a couple of members stating that it was cumulative on later models and these discussions were in 2014 and 2015. I guess I'll have to do a full test of several lens to assure myself.

Larry

Originally posted by UncleVanya

I understand the question - but I don't have an answer. I tried experimentally testing and I can't decide. The apply all in theory applies to all - but your point is (I assume) does it apply to those lenses that have specific dialed in adjustments or does it ignore those lenses.

Practical example:
An FA lens is tested and needs +5, then...
A bunch of K, M, and A lenses are tested and a global setting of let's say -3 is found to be the best compromise.
Is the FA lens still dialed in or is it effectively at only +2 "net"?

**UncleVanya** · 03-23-2018, 11:16 AM

Originally posted by Larrymc

Thanks UV, that is precisely my question. I'm like you, I can't decide by using just one lens to test, I guess I'll just have to go back through several of my AF lenses and do a full test. I've never seen a definitive answer, just some posts by a couple of members stating that it was cumulative on later models and these discussions were in 2014 and 2015. I guess I'll have to do a full test of several lens to assure myself.

Larry

When you figure it out - please post - I'm curious myself.

---------- Post added 03-23-18 at 02:17 PM ----------

The other scenario is:

DA lens +10 isn't enough, can I add more using global?

Adam · 03-23-2018, 11:43 AM - **1 Like**

An interesting question, but also one that's easy to test empirically.

There are 4 possible scenarios:
1. Apply one takes precedence over apply all. If a lens has an individual setting, it will be the one actually used.
2. Apply all takes precedence over apply one. Regardless of your apply one setting, the apply all setting is used.
3. The greater of the two values is used (in terms of magnitude).
4. They stack

IMO the most likely scenario is #1, and the least likely is #4.

Since you're mainly interested in whether or not #4 is the case: set the lens to +10, apply all to +0, and take a photo of your test chart. Then, set apply all to +10. Take another photo, and compare. If they are the same, then you can cross off #4. If they are different, then #4 it is!

**Larrymc** · 03-23-2018, 12:10 PM

Originally posted by UncleVanya

When you figure it out - please post - I'm curious myself.

---------- Post added 03-23-18 at 02:17 PM ----------

The other scenario is:

DA lens +10 isn't enough, can I add more using global?

I'll do that.

A couple of my non Pentax lens ended up close to the minus limit and most of my DA lens were close to the center of the fine tune scale. My problem lens is my DFA 100 2.8 it is all over the place and I can't count on it for reliable shot to sht focus.

Larry

leekil · 03-23-2018, 12:31 PM

Though stacking might not be as unlikely as you suggest, Adam. If the camera is generally maladjusted, then the apply all might reasonably be a global solution. But even in that case, certain lenses might be out of alignment themselves, and need specific adjustments. The stacking model would also be useful to achieve additional adjustment range beyond the +/-10, in a similar scenario.

**UncleVanya** · 03-23-2018, 12:31 PM

Originally posted by Larrymc

I'll do that.

A couple of my non Pentax lens ended up close to the minus limit and most of my DA lens were close to the center of the fine tune scale. My problem lens is my DFA 100 2.8 it is all over the place and I can't count on it for reliable shot to sht focus.

Larry

At normal (non-macro) distances? or between normal and macro?

JohnX · 03-23-2018, 12:37 PM - **1 Like**

My understanding is that Apply All does not work cumulatively with Apply One and over-rides any previously applied Apply One settings.

**UncleVanya** · 03-23-2018, 01:11 PM

This agrees with what JohnX wrote above:

RiceHigh's Pentax Blog: AF Fine Adjustment: "Apply All" and "Apply One" Fully Explained

**Larrymc** · 03-23-2018, 01:39 PM

Originally posted by UncleVanya

At normal (non-macro) distances? or between normal and macro?

I calibrated the DFA 100 2.8 at the recommended distance of 8.2 feet per 100mm.

Larry

**BarryE** · 03-23-2018, 01:43 PM

Originally posted by JohnX

My understanding is that Apply All does not work cumulatively with Apply One and over-rides any previously applied Apply One settings.

Yup, that's how I think it works, which has always seemed a little dangerous to me. Eg previous set up a few lenses, then inadvertently set a new one to Apply All. Previous results all gone. Therefore I make a note of each setting, just in case. Even if it doesn't work that way, why, when more than one lens has already been set, would you not be going down the route of testing each lens? It's a chore and takes a considerable time, but makes me feel more in control of the situation. Also, the individual settings approach still allows each to be set up the same, albeit as Apply One for each, then work on each individually to tweak as required.

Interestingly, previous K3s were around +5 for each lens, while my FFs are both 0. I've heard others say the K1s are less in need of AF adjustments. Wonder if this is true ? Does make it easier ...

03-23-2018, 11:43 AM - 1 Like	#8
Adam Administrator Site Webmaster Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Arizona Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 51,594	An interesting question, but also one that's easy to test empirically. There are 4 possible scenarios: 1. Apply one takes precedence over apply all. If a lens has an individual setting, it will be the one actually used. 2. Apply all takes precedence over apply one. Regardless of your apply one setting, the apply all setting is used. 3. The greater of the two values is used (in terms of magnitude). 4. They stack IMO the most likely scenario is #1, and the least likely is #4. Since you're mainly interested in whether or not #4 is the case: set the lens to +10, apply all to +0, and take a photo of your test chart. Then, set apply all to +10. Take another photo, and compare. If they are the same, then you can cross off #4. If they are different, then #4 it is! Adam PentaxForums.com Webmaster (Site Usage Guide \| Site Help \| My Photography) PentaxForums.com server and development costs are user-supported. You can help cover these costs by donating or purchasing one of our Pentax eBooks. Or, buy your photo gear from our affiliates, Adorama, B&H Photo, KEH, or Topaz Labs, and get FREE Marketplace access - click here to see how! Trusted Pentax retailers:

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
AF Fine Adjustment	Jim93	Pentax K-70 & KF	9	12-23-2020 08:34 AM
An AF Fine Adjustment setting question	Joyce Keay	Troubleshooting and Beginner Help	10	08-17-2017 07:51 PM
Question for owners of K-3 / K-3II and K10D / GX-10 re AF fine adjustment	BigMackCam	Pentax K-3 & K-3 II	8	10-24-2016 07:13 AM
All lens needs AF fine adjustment, does the camera need a global adjustment? Thanks	bennyxyz	Troubleshooting and Beginner Help	9	04-21-2016 12:36 PM
AF Fine Adjustment, focus correction, AF micro adj., AF fine tuning	annajonna	Pentax K-5 & K-5 II	13	11-19-2011 11:32 PM

03-23-2018, 09:46 AM	#1
Larrymc Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Mississippi, USA Posts: 5,251	AF Fine Adjustment Question! I am in the process of calibrating my lenses with Lens Align MkII and Focus tune 4. The process is very time consuming if you use the recommended procedure, which I am using. There are 5 de-focus and focus shots for each of the fine tune settings 105 in all for each lens. Then a series of 10 de-focus and focus shots in a narrower range around the optimal setting. My question is has anyone determined if the global setting "Apply All" and the per lens setting "Apply One" affect each other? For instance if I have a -9 dialed into "Apply One" and dial in a -10 will that move the focus point further to the minus end? I did some testing and the result is inconclusive. My personal opinion is that one doesn't affect the other although when doing real world shooting "Apply All" does seem to affect "Apply One" but that might be explained by "normal" shot to shot differences in autofocus. Any and all opinions appreciated. Larry

03-23-2018, 10:02 AM	#2
gmans Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Hunter Valley,NSW, Australia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,466	Fixing Front and Back Focus - Introduction - In-Depth Articles might be this one help?

03-23-2018, 10:14 AM	#3
Larrymc Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Mississippi, USA Posts: 5,251 Original Poster	Originally posted by gmans Fixing Front and Back Focus - Introduction - In-Depth Articles might be this one help? Thanks, Nope, what I'm doing is using Lens Align MkII plus Focus Tune 4 which are Michael Tapes Designs products and designed to work together. it is much more detailed that the process you linked to although the link referred to an earlier process using Lens Align. My question is are the "Apply All' and the "Apply One" seperate and apart or does one affect the other? Larry

03-23-2018, 10:27 AM	#4
gmans Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Hunter Valley,NSW, Australia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,466	Will beyond me at with this your question, I adjust each lens per to each camera adjustment and only have the K3 to adjust for AF lens.

03-23-2018, 10:32 AM	#5
UncleVanya Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2014 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 28,401	I understand the question - but I don't have an answer. I tried experimentally testing and I can't decide. The apply all in theory applies to all - but your point is (I assume) does it apply to those lenses that have specific dialed in adjustments or does it ignore those lenses. Practical example: An FA lens is tested and needs +5, then... A bunch of K, M, and A lenses are tested and a global setting of let's say -3 is found to be the best compromise. Is the FA lens still dialed in or is it effectively at only +2 "net"?

03-23-2018, 11:01 AM	#6
Larrymc Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Mississippi, USA Posts: 5,251 Original Poster	Thanks UV, that is precisely my question. I'm like you, I can't decide by using just one lens to test, I guess I'll just have to go back through several of my AF lenses and do a full test. I've never seen a definitive answer, just some posts by a couple of members stating that it was cumulative on later models and these discussions were in 2014 and 2015. I guess I'll have to do a full test of several lens to assure myself. Larry Originally posted by UncleVanya I understand the question - but I don't have an answer. I tried experimentally testing and I can't decide. The apply all in theory applies to all - but your point is (I assume) does it apply to those lenses that have specific dialed in adjustments or does it ignore those lenses. Practical example: An FA lens is tested and needs +5, then... A bunch of K, M, and A lenses are tested and a global setting of let's say -3 is found to be the best compromise. Is the FA lens still dialed in or is it effectively at only +2 "net"?

03-23-2018, 11:16 AM	#7
UncleVanya Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2014 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 28,401	Originally posted by Larrymc Thanks UV, that is precisely my question. I'm like you, I can't decide by using just one lens to test, I guess I'll just have to go back through several of my AF lenses and do a full test. I've never seen a definitive answer, just some posts by a couple of members stating that it was cumulative on later models and these discussions were in 2014 and 2015. I guess I'll have to do a full test of several lens to assure myself. Larry When you figure it out - please post - I'm curious myself. ---------- Post added 03-23-18 at 02:17 PM ---------- The other scenario is: DA lens +10 isn't enough, can I add more using global?

03-23-2018, 12:10 PM	#9
Larrymc Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Mississippi, USA Posts: 5,251 Original Poster	Originally posted by UncleVanya When you figure it out - please post - I'm curious myself. ---------- Post added 03-23-18 at 02:17 PM ---------- The other scenario is: DA lens +10 isn't enough, can I add more using global? I'll do that. A couple of my non Pentax lens ended up close to the minus limit and most of my DA lens were close to the center of the fine tune scale. My problem lens is my DFA 100 2.8 it is all over the place and I can't count on it for reliable shot to sht focus. Larry

03-23-2018, 12:31 PM	#10
leekil Pentaxian Join Date: May 2016 Photos: Albums Posts: 2,003	Though stacking might not be as unlikely as you suggest, Adam. If the camera is generally maladjusted, then the apply all might reasonably be a global solution. But even in that case, certain lenses might be out of alignment themselves, and need specific adjustments. The stacking model would also be useful to achieve additional adjustment range beyond the +/-10, in a similar scenario.

03-23-2018, 12:31 PM	#11
UncleVanya Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2014 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 28,401	Originally posted by Larrymc I'll do that. A couple of my non Pentax lens ended up close to the minus limit and most of my DA lens were close to the center of the fine tune scale. My problem lens is my DFA 100 2.8 it is all over the place and I can't count on it for reliable shot to sht focus. Larry At normal (non-macro) distances? or between normal and macro?

03-23-2018, 12:37 PM - 1 Like	#12
JohnX Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: London Posts: 1,116	My understanding is that Apply All does not work cumulatively with Apply One and over-rides any previously applied Apply One settings.

03-23-2018, 01:11 PM	#13
UncleVanya Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2014 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 28,401	This agrees with what JohnX wrote above: RiceHigh's Pentax Blog: AF Fine Adjustment: "Apply All" and "Apply One" Fully Explained

03-23-2018, 01:39 PM	#14
Larrymc Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Mississippi, USA Posts: 5,251 Original Poster	Originally posted by UncleVanya At normal (non-macro) distances? or between normal and macro? I calibrated the DFA 100 2.8 at the recommended distance of 8.2 feet per 100mm. Larry

03-23-2018, 01:43 PM	#15
BarryE Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Hampshire, UK Posts: 1,653	Originally posted by JohnX My understanding is that Apply All does not work cumulatively with Apply One and over-rides any previously applied Apply One settings. Yup, that's how I think it works, which has always seemed a little dangerous to me. Eg previous set up a few lenses, then inadvertently set a new one to Apply All. Previous results all gone. Therefore I make a note of each setting, just in case. Even if it doesn't work that way, why, when more than one lens has already been set, would you not be going down the route of testing each lens? It's a chore and takes a considerable time, but makes me feel more in control of the situation. Also, the individual settings approach still allows each to be set up the same, albeit as Apply One for each, then work on each individually to tweak as required. Interestingly, previous K3s were around +5 for each lens, while my FFs are both 0. I've heard others say the K1s are less in need of AF adjustments. Wonder if this is true ? Does make it easier ...