[UncleVanya]

Hi All,

First thanks for all of the info and I've completed a bit more experimentation on it now that I'm not so tired. Some of my original comments were actually incorrect now that I have completed more experimentation. I'll state what my problem is, along with what equipment I have, what I have tested and what the results where.

Original Problem: Viewfinder and photo do not match up. Viewfinder photo seems to be 10% to the right. Occurs on K-3 18-135mm stock lens. No problems when using Live Mode

Equipment for Experimentation: Pentax K3, Pentax Kr, Pentax 18-135mm lens, Pentax 18-55mm lens, Pentax 55-300 lens, Sigma 18-250 lens

Pentax K3 + 18-135mm lens: The photo DOES move 10% to the right. It is fine in LIVE mode. However, I can hear something moving when it is in live mode but it locks into place when using the viewfinder.

Pentax K3 + Sigma 18-250mm lens: The photo DOES move 10% to the right. It is fine in LIVE mode. However, I can hear something moving when it is in live mode but it locks into place when using the viewfinder.

Pentax Kr with 18-135 mm lens: no problems.

Pentax Kr with Sigma 18-250mm lens: no problems.

MAIN COMMENT: When I use the 18-135mm lens and Sigma 18-250mm lens in LIVE mode I hear movement when I move the camera slowly back and forth. Could it be that the viewfinder mirrors are potentially jiggling around??

Pentax Kr with 18-55 & 55-300mm lens: no problems

In live view you will hear the Shake Reduction system adjusting sensor position.

Have you tried resetting to defaults yet? My money is on the composition adjustment feature, but I'm seeing some others report it shouldn't keep settings on this feature and I've not had a chance to verify this. Resetting to defaults would help eliminate this as a potential factor.

[mfedley]

In live view you will hear the Shake Reduction system adjusting sensor position.

Have you tried resetting to defaults yet? My money is on the composition adjustment feature, but I'm seeing some others report it shouldn't keep settings on this feature and I've not had a chance to verify this. Resetting to defaults would help eliminate this as a potential factor.

Just confirming that I've reset the defaults and still no difference

[UncleVanya]

To recap. On this particular camera, the is in the viewfinder isn't lined up completely with what you get when the picture is taken, and the live view is matched to what you get when taking as photo.

The problem isn't lens specific, as far as you can tell. The problem goes away on another camera body.

I'd say the SR system or the composition adjustment Staten is not working as intended. Can you try going into the composition adjustment manually in live view and see if you can force the sensor to shift far enough to replicate what you see when taking a picture with the viewfinder? Which is more accurate btw, the viewfinder or the live view? (Compared to the shots from another camera in the same position. )

[stevebrot]

Pentax K3 + 18-135mm lens: The photo DOES move 10% to the right. It is fine in LIVE mode. However, I can hear something moving when it is in live mode but it locks into place when using the viewfinder.

Pentax K3 + Sigma 18-250mm lens: The photo DOES move 10% to the right. It is fine in LIVE mode. However, I can hear something moving when it is in live mode but it locks into place when using the viewfinder.

This helps, but to pin this down:

1. Does this still shift when shooting on tripod?
2. Is there any chance the focusing screen has been replaced or fiddled with such that it is not properly seated in its frame?
3. Are there any clues in what you see such as out-of-focus or distortions or significant darkening on left and/or right side of the frame?
4. Are you using any type of viewfinder magnifier or diopter viewfinder attachment?

The actual exposure cycle is the same when using both live view and the optical viewfinder so that system is not a possible cause.

All that being said, if the camera is new to you and #1 and #4 above are both "no", I would be talking to the seller to arrange a refund or exchange.


Steve

---

Last edited by stevebrot; 04-23-2018 at 12:51 PM.

[stevebrot]

I'd say the SR system or the composition adjustment Staten is not working as intended.

The OP reports a 10% shift. That is a huge bias (600 pixels) and beyond the SR system movement. If by some chance the sensor is jammed 600 pixels off center, live view would likely show significant vignette on the left side, particularly at the longer end of the zoom range for the two lenses.


Steve

[Not a Number]

I seem to recall a poster in the past saying the sensor got stuck on his/her body, not shifting. I don't recall if it was ever resolved.

Can the sensor be heard moving when running a manual dust removal sequence? Can the sensor be heard to be shifting when the camera is turned off and gently shaken (not stirred) or tilted around the central lens axis?

[mfedley]

Thanks for the questions.

I've had this camera since 2013 so I refund is not possible.

I'll answer the 4 questions above.

(1) I don't have a tripod, but I sat it on a specific location which is flat which I can see from live mode and the viewfinder. I tried this with multiple lenses. The viewfinder is always off side which the live view is flush (exactly what is expected)
(2) The focus screen may have moved - but I did not do this intentionally or to my knowledge. It was fine on Saturday, not on Sunday.
(3) There are no distortions or black rings for the photo. The photos are just as sharp as normal, just not flush when looking through the viewfinder.
(4) There are no attachments

I currently live in China and there are no Pentax Authorized stores/service centres in my city. As such, I'll wait until I move to Singapore in a couple of months and get it fixed there. In the mean time, I can use live view and compensate the 10% through experimentation for the next couple of months. I can still use my kr body if it drives me crazy (which it was on Sunday). The life of a perfectionist with a slight anal retentive streak....

---------- Post added 04-23-18 at 03:25 PM ----------

Thanks for the questions.

I've had this camera since 2013 so I refund is not possible.

I'll answer the 4 questions above.

(1) I don't have a tripod, but I sat it on a specific location which is flat which I can see from live mode and the viewfinder. I tried this with multiple lenses. The viewfinder is always off side which the live view is flush (exactly what is expected)
(2) The focus screen may have moved - but I did not do this intentionally or to my knowledge. It was fine on Saturday, not on Sunday.
(3) There are no distortions or black rings for the photo. The photos are just as sharp as normal, just not flush when looking through the viewfinder.
(4) There are no attachments

I currently live in China and there are no Pentax Authorized stores/service centres in my city. As such, I'll wait until I move to Singapore in a couple of months and get it fixed there. In the mean time, I can use live view and compensate the 10% through experimentation for the next couple of months. I can still use my kr body if it drives me crazy (which it was on Sunday). The life of a perfectionist with a slight anal retentive streak....

[UncleVanya]

Can you post some pics?

[MarkJerling]

Another poster have asked if you're looking through the viewfinder with glasses on. Can you advise if that's the case?

Another thing you can try, check if something is out of alignment, is to look through your camera the wrong way, i.e. look into the lens. You should see your focus markings and if you're making sure you align your eye with the centre of the lens, you'll see what i mean. This works best if you have the viewfinder side (the rear of) of the camera pointing toward a bright even coloured surface.

[MarkJerling]

I'll also add this: If the camera "sees" what you see when you're looking at the LiveView image on the rear screen, then it must mean that the sensor and the lens is correctly aligned. It must also mean that the lens is not at fault because, if the lens was at fault, you'd see the same displacement with LiveView and through the viewfinder.

So, that leaves you with mirror or focus screen. It can't be the focus screen, because, if the focus screen was out of alignment - even slightly - then your photos will be out of focus, when viewing through the viewfinder.
And, it can't be the mirror because, if the mirror was out of alignment, part of the image would be out of focus when you look through the viewfinder OR you would see a black stripe on one side or other when looking through the viewfinder.

[UncleVanya]

I'll also add this: If the camera "sees" what you see when you're looking at the LiveView image on the rear screen, then it must mean that the sensor and the lens is correctly aligned. It must also mean that the lens is not at fault because, if the lens was at fault, you'd see the same displacement with LiveView and through the viewfinder.

So, that leaves you with mirror or focus screen. It can't be the focus screen, because, if the focus screen was out of alignment - even slightly - then your photos will be out of focus.
And, it can't be the mirror because, if the mirror was out of alignment, part of the image would be out of focus when you look through the viewfinder OR you would see a black stripe on one side or other when looking through the viewfinder.

Are you sure about the focus screen? I was under the impression that the focusing screen was not involved in PDAF focusing.

[MarkJerling]

Are you sure about the focus screen? I was under the impression that the focusing screen was not involved in PDAF focusing.

I meant "then your photos would be out of focus when viewing through the viewfinder".
As per the context of my text - I'm referring to what the OP sees when he looks through the viewfinder. Clearly, per the photo posted and the OP's comments, focus in the resulting photograph is not an issue.

I've edited my comment for clarity.

[UncleVanya]

I meant "then your photos would be out of focus when viewing through the viewfinder".
As per the context of my text - I'm referring to what the OP sees when he looks through the viewfinder. Clearly, per the photo posted and the OP's comments, focus in the resulting photograph is not an issue.

I've edited my comment for clarity.

AHHHHHH! Gotcha. Makes sense.

[mfedley]

Hi. I''ve tried to answer the questions to the best of my ability below.

Do I wear glasses: no

View through lens to viewfinder: seems to be no problems. I've never done this before and it looks quite strange....

I just gave the viewfinder a good clean and then decided to compare the clarity of the image through the viewfinder for my K3 and Kr with the same lens (18-135mm stock lens and my Sigma 18-250mm lens). As expected, there was no difference between the lenses on both cameras but for the first time I have noticed how much clearer (and brighter) the image through the viewfinder is on the Kr compared to my K3.

To be explicit, my VERY old Kr has a sharper and brighter image through the viewfinder than my newer K3 (focus can be made slightly better when playing with settings - does not affect the brightness of image through the viewfinder though).

My original view of "is the viewfinder in focus" was can I see an image that is recognisable and not totally blurry. Not until comparing the viewfinder of two cameras did this become very clear....

[Alex645]

To be explicit, my VERY old Kr has a sharper and brighter image through the viewfinder than my newer K3 (focus can be made slightly better when playing with settings - does not affect the brightness of image through the viewfinder though).

This is not normal, as youʻve suspected, as the Kr uses a smaller, less bright pentamirror compared to the K3 larger and brighter pentaprism.

If you can see a significant reversal of this, then something is amiss with your K3 pentaprism that needs repair unless youʻre willing to always use Live View. The pentaprism is a solid piece of glass, and the off-centering and dimmer view seems to suggest that the glue or foam that seats it has become dislodged and needs to be repaired.

This can happen by physical impact, environmental shock (extreme changes in heat and humidity), or a manufacturing issue that is manifesting itself now. Probably a combination of events, which in my experience is rare.