[Excalibor]

Greetings!

I have noticed that unless there's a lot of shadows in the image, the spot metering tends to do a very good job on the subject but the highlights (especially the sky and clouds) are usually blown out beyond recovery. Which is okay at times, but others


I have tried the center weighted metering without any noticeable gain, and the whole scene with +1 or +2 exposure compensation does not produce the same light on the subject, mainly outdoors portraits.

So, is there any trick or technoque I am unaware of to use spo metering to have my subjects well exposed and still get the highlights "too the right but not so far!"? I have thought about shooting two pictures, as in bracketing, but that would require a tripod and a patient model (and my 3 years-old nephew is not one of those!).


Thanks in advance!

[twilhelm]

Using a fill flash on the subject is the best method. The problem is, there is too great of a difference in the EV (light) values between the bright sky and the subject. A flash will brighten the subject and close that gap.

Also, what do you use for post processing? It takes a little trial and error, but if the difference isn’t too great, you can expose for the brighter area, and bring the shadows up in post. The Pentax cameras maintain a lot of detail in shadows that you initially can’t see, but blown highlights are gone forever.

[Excalibor]

Using a fill flash on the subject is the best method. The problem is, there is too great of a difference in the EV (light) values between the bright sky and the subject. A flash will brighten the subject and close that gap.

Also, what do you use for post processing? It takes a little trial and error, but if the difference isn’t too great, you can expose for the brighter area, and bring the shadows up in post. The Pentax cameras maintain a lot of detail in shadows that you initially can’t see, but blown highlights are gone forever.

I use the flash when I can: in close portraits, the camera flash (which is still hard to use when people wear glasses or are particularly sensible and always close their eyes, plus it's hard to get the right compensation, -0.3, -1... or else the faces are too bright! it's like the camera is metering before the flash light is added, so it's always too much light...); in greater groups, an external if I have it with me (not always, you know...). It does help, but still... I don't know if I should fire at the first curtain, the second or when, it's complicated stuff.

As for processing, I use Darktable. I can usually get a lot from shadows, but it sometimes creates artifacts like auras around the people and weird colors on the noses, for example... Maybe I should try another program for those hard cases? RawTherapee anybody?

Thanks!

[photoptimist]

The easiest solution is to spot-meter the highlight and the increase the exposure a stop or two. And although it does not produce the same light on the subject, it is the only way to prevent blow-outs.

If comparing spot-meter readings of the clouds to those of the subject shows they are many many stops different, the scene will have very high contrast and force you to pick between blown highlights or a dimly-lit subject. Post-processing can bring up the shadowed subject and can't recover a blown highlight.

The other solution is controlling the scene by ensuring the subject is well lit (by positioning, reflectors, or flash) or by carefully framing the subject to avoid clouds and sky.

---

Last edited by photoptimist; 08-16-2018 at 12:15 PM. Reason: typos

[pschlute]

What they said.

You cannot break the laws of physics. If there is too much difference between the subject and the sky/clouds etc it will not matter what metering system you use, you will not get both of them correctly exposed without further equipment.

Experiment with fill flash as suggested, trying HSS High Speed Sync which will enable you to control the bright areas and still correctly light the subject. With static scenes you can use Neurtral density Graduated filters.

Shoot in raw format and learn about post processing. As suggested this will enable you to bring out more from the shadows if you expose correctly for the highlights.

Sorry there is no magic bullet.

[thix2112]

The easiest solution is to spot-meter the highlight and the reduce the exposure a stop or two. And although it does not produce the same light on the subject, it is the only way to prevent blow-outs..

I think you mean to spot meter the highlights then ~increase~ exposure. Reason - the meter will read the highlights as 18% grey. So you then need to increase the exposure to bring up the highlights to a more normal level.

Tom

[pentageek]

The easiest solution is to spot-meter the highlight and the reduce the exposure a stop or two. And although it does not produce the same light on the subject, it is the only way to prevent blow-outs.

I second this. Maximal dynamic range of K-3 is 8.9 EV@ISO 100, so you can simply set Av or Tv mode, and spot-meter contrast of the scene* - if it gets close to 8 EV, fill flash or HDR picture could be of help.

*without looking into sun, of course

---

Last edited by pentageek; 08-16-2018 at 12:03 PM. Reason: remark on looking into sun

[niels hansen]

exposure bracketing might be a solution

[honey bo bo]

I have used a Kenko Square Neutral Density filter partially sliding in the slot as needed.

[normhead]

The histogram is your friend. Some of my sunsets are dialled back to -3 EV. If you have red spots on your image or your histogram is on the very right of the curve, you need to dial it down. Blown highlights don't look as bad as dark shadows, if you have to make a choice.

I'm just way too practical to consider a solution like figuring out the metering. And, it's un-necessary.

[stevebrot]

It took awhile to craft this response, during which time several good comments were added above. The information below is without reference to those comments.

--------------------------------

Spot metering is not a magic bullet and neither is center-weighted. If matrix metering is not able to balance shadows and highlights without clipping, the dynamic range within the frame is wider than what your camera is capable of capturing in a single exposure. Your options go like this:

• Risk loss of detail in the shadows by using the camera's exposure compensation feature (aka EV Compensation) to intentionally underexpose an appropriate amount. The same may be done by using M mode and dialing in the underexposure manually.
• HDR merge of bracketed exposures
• Fill flash or reflected light in combination with intentional underexposure. This is the classic technique for strongly back-lit portraits.

Going back to spot metering and it not being "magic", there are misconceptions regarding spot metering and how it may be appropriate determining exposure in difficult light. The short answer is that it allows measurement of a small area of the subject. It is up to the photographer to determine how to use that measurement to get the desired exposure for the whole frame. The camera will not do this for you. The process is called "placing exposure" and is essentially manual in nature. The general steps go something like this:

• Select "M" mode
• Place the center point of the frame (where the "spot" measures) on the portion of the frame where one wishes to place exposure
• Adjust the shutter speed and aperture to center the EV scale in the viewfinder on that point
• Further adjust the exposure to the desired EV (Exposure Value). Note the emphasis on the word "desired". The metered exposure will provide an EV that will render to "middle gray". If the subject is light Caucasian skin, one might want to provide an additional two stops exposure to place exposure to the subject's face.
• Compose, focus, and trip the shutter. Since the exposure settings (EV) were determined in advance and the mode is "M", one may frame and recompose at will.
• Elements other than the area used for the spot exposure placement will fall above or below according to their brightness and clipping may well be present at the extremes. No magic.

It should be noted that a common cause of exposure-related troubleshooting requests is use of spot metering for general photography using auto exposure. I hope this helps!


Steve

[BarryE]

I use the flash when I can: in close portraits, the camera flash (which is still hard to use when people wear glasses or are particularly sensible and always close their eyes, plus it's hard to get the right compensation, -0.3, -1... or else the faces are too bright! it's like the camera is metering before the flash light is added, so it's always too much light...); in greater groups, an external if I have it with me (not always, you know...). It does help, but still... I don't know if I should fire at the first curtain, the second or when, it's complicated stuff.

As for processing, I use Darktable. I can usually get a lot from shadows, but it sometimes creates artifacts like auras around the people and weird colors on the noses, for example... Maybe I should try another program for those hard cases? RawTherapee anybody?

Thanks!

A large reflector ? They can throw a lot of light back where it's needed ...

[stevebrot]

Maximal dynamic range of K-3 is 8.9 EV@ISO 100

I don't know where that number came from.* The dynamic range is closer to 14 stops in the absolute sense. After all, the camera does support 14-bit capture. I have shot wider that 9 stops with compression in PP, no problem. As for EV 8.9 @ ISO 100, that is 1/125s at a little wider than f/2.

(The rear LCD histogram gives only a rough estimate of clipping point and is based on an 8-bit JPEG rendering.)


Steve

* DXOMark? FWIW, their methodology does not measure dynamic range per se, but that is another topic.
Correction: DXOMark measured the K-3II at 13.6 at base ISO.

[normhead]

I second this. Maximal dynamic range of K-3 is 8.9 EV@ISO 100, so you can simply set Av or Tv mode, and spot-meter contrast of the scene* - if it gets close to 8 EV, fill flash or HDR picture could be of help.

The generally accepted K-3 DR is 13+EV. If I were to try and remember an exact number i think it was 13.3.
But I;ll change my mind if you give me a definitive reference. A K-5 is 14 EV and a K-1 is almost 15.
Standard every day films were 7 EV, You are probably way under selling the K-3.

[jbinpg]

Darktable can do what you want using its parametric mask mode. Search youtube for tutorials on exposure control using parametric masks.