Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
04-26-2019, 12:16 PM   #166
Loyal Site Supporter
Loyal Site Supporter
Merv-O's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Philadelphia
Photos: Albums
Posts: 1,413
QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
Even including the entire sentence is unnecessarily alarmist.

The very clear message from Ricoh is that there is a K-3ii replace in the works, and it will be the next Pentax camera out. I am personally convinced that they expected the K-1ii to be the flagship - they hadn't understood that some would want more "fps" than this camera provides in FF mode and more "mp" than it provides in crop mode. Based on their comments at successive conferences, they may have made some kind of mid-course correction that further slowed them down. I am greatly pleased by the KP - I am sure that this camera will be pleasing when it does finally appear.
Well stated reh321: Stihlmania's issue is that he wants an APS-c replacement now, but has not even tested the KP. I remember I was also somewhat dismissive of the KP until I bought one. It is a little powerhouse and Pentax knew they were not entering the mirrorless realm that swept "camera land" in 2018--so they devised a small compact DSLR that had most of the necessary goodies of the K-3ii, better sensor/ISO speed, and a fill-in flash that consumers prefer ove rthe esoteric and less used GPS Astrotracker unit (a separate one is available for the hot shoe--any camera like the KP that can still make discernible photos at 25,000 ISO doesn't need to worry about a larger flash frankly. Even at 12,500 ISO, the relatively low noise is astounding.

Stihlmania has already been maligned by others on this thread--I won't malign him, I will just say he's misguided....the KP with a 300mm Telephoto (effective 450mm) is more than enough tripoded and speedy to snap any wildlife he is seeking...sometimes it's the shooter not the camera....OINK OINK>>>

04-26-2019, 12:20 PM - 2 Likes   #167
Pentaxian
Site Supporter
normhead's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Near Algonquin Park
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 32,753
QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
The one shortcoming of being a Pentax user is that there aren't very many of us - a DA* 400mm f/2.8 is a rather specialized lens, so I don't know there are enough of you to justify the cost of designing one. Looking at B&H, I see that the newest 400mm f/2.8 lens from Canon costs $12K - from Nikon the cost is $1K less. An appropriate camera will cost another $2K; the total cost of nearly $15K is totally out of the question for many of us, but if you can justify that expense, "more power to you",
Th image made with my Tamron 300 2.8 yesterday and 2x TC to get em to 600 ƒ5.6 were encouraging.

The Sigma 300 2.8 is still available new, and I believe there is a matched 2x TC. If you really want to spend that kind of money, maybe $3600 USD. My Tamron also works really well with the 1.4 TC for 420mm ƒ4 as well as the F 1.7x, for 510mm ƒ4.5.

From yesterday, with the 2x. I'm not sure it's up to the K-3's smaller pixels but it certainly makes the K-1 a useful option and gets close to the K-3 FoV with a lot more pixels.

The Sigma 500 4.5 is also still available and I understand you can use the 1.4 with that as well for APS-c.



04-26-2019, 12:47 PM   #168
retired sw engineer
Loyal Site Supporter
reh321's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: South Bend, IN, USA
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 12,737
QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Th image made with my Tamron 300 2.8 yesterday and 2x TC to get em to 600 ƒ5.6 were encouraging.

The Sigma 300 2.8 is still available new, and I believe there is a matched 2x TC. If you really want to spend that kind of money, maybe $3600 USD. My Tamron also works really well with the 1.4 TC for 420mm ƒ4 as well as the F 1.7x, for 510mm ƒ4.5.

From yesterday, with the 2x. I'm not sure it's up to the K-3's smaller pixels but it certainly makes the K-1 a useful option and gets close to the K-3 FoV with a lot more pixels.
Which 2X TC are you using?

Does your camera get enough light with it attached to a more restrictive lens {say f/4, or even f/5.6} to autofocus?

added: I'm trying to learn what the limits of this kind of TC are.

Last edited by reh321; 04-26-2019 at 03:37 PM.
04-26-2019, 07:30 PM   #169
Loyal Site Supporter
Loyal Site Supporter




Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Spring Branch, Tx
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 498
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
And that's what is in question, I'm sure we all want to know if you have the remotest possibility for thinking that or are just talking off the top of your head. As I recall Hoya kept the Pentax name for their medical division PENTAX Medical (Canada)

So even Hoya didn't mine the technology and ditch the name, they bought and use both the name and the technology, so what possible reason would Ricoh have for doing so?
Both Hoya and Ricoh must promote the Pentax name, if everything I read in the purchase agreement is correct. Not a sustainable arrangement in historic terms....once again just my opinion!

---------- Post added 04-26-19 at 09:33 PM ----------

reh321, including the entire sentence in a quote should be standard protocol to avoid avoid unnecessary alarmism if you ask me....others [like you] may have a different opinion...Simply stating an opinion based on what I have learned after 60 plus years is what it is. If many here on Pentax Forums have trouble with that so be it. If Pentax Forums users dis-agree they may state their opinion, but so far those opinion's have no more weight to it than mine unless you have "concrete evidence" to back it up. I have not seen any "concrete evidence" yet. So far many compelling opinions have been offered [Norm comes to mind here]. The fact that Pentax has not made a fast telephoto says more about the typical user of Pentax equipment, than it does about the ability to produce such a lens...and why some have chosen to use other brands that do offer that fast telephoto. Is it fair to condemn them because of the lack of an available Pentax lens? Pentax has chosen not to make an autofocus 400 f2.8, I assume that because it will not sell enough to be profitable. I do not blame Pentax for that....
Unless you have used a fast telephoto like the SMC A ☆ 400 F2.8 ED[IF] you may not know exactly what the lens can do, in many different f stop and shutter speed situations. I can use a shutter speed of 1/60 in many low light situations [with a 400mm or a 680mm with the AF1.7, or the 1.4 XL at 560mm]. Not everyone can. Learning how to cancel vibrations on a telephoto on a tripod is for a different discussion. The AF 1.7 has given a new life to the lens for me, plus the K3-II. I have more photos [8,500] taken in the last 2 years with this lens than in the 15 years before. Thank the the AF 1.7 and the K3-II [I almost never use burst mode if you must know]. Sooner or later the lens will need service, please recommend someone who can service this lens.....or, in your opinion, when Ricoh/Pentax will make an equivalent autofocus version....

04-26-2019, 07:49 PM   #170
Loyal Site Supporter
Loyal Site Supporter




Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Spring Branch, Tx
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 498
Original Poster
Images from today with the K3-II and a HD 55-300 thru a window, The Oriole and painted bunting arrival caught me off guard....I have set up my portable blind for this weekend to get images not thru a glass pane....and with the 400.

---------- Post added 04-26-19 at 10:45 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Merv-O Quote
Well stated reh321: Stihlmania's issue is that he wants an APS-c replacement now, but has not even tested the KP. I remember I was also somewhat dismissive of the KP until I bought one. It is a little powerhouse and Pentax knew they were not entering the mirrorless realm that swept "camera land" in 2018--so they devised a small compact DSLR that had most of the necessary goodies of the K-3ii, better sensor/ISO speed, and a fill-in flash that consumers prefer ove rthe esoteric and less used GPS Astrotracker unit (a separate one is available for the hot shoe--any camera like the KP that can still make discernible photos at 25,000 ISO doesn't need to worry about a larger flash frankly. Even at 12,500 ISO, the relatively low noise is astounding.

Stihlmania has already been maligned by others on this thread--I won't malign him, I will just say he's misguided....the KP with a 300mm Telephoto (effective 450mm) is more than enough tripoded and speedy to snap any wildlife he is seeking...sometimes it's the shooter not the camera....OINK OINK>>>
Sorry Merv-O, you feel it is ok to state an opinion blaming others "Stihlmania has already been maligned by others on this thread--I won't malign him" but you are ok with your opinion? Misguided?. Please go back and re-read my post.... I never stated I want an APS-C replacement now, I wish for a AF 400 f2.8 now [actually when my 400 needs service which no one can provide]. I have tested the KP with my lens, the K3, the K1 and K11 also. The K3-II is not the issue. Fill flash for a lens is not an issue, I use a AF360 or an AF400 when needed. The built in fill flash [K3 or KP] does not work past 15 feet with a long telephoto, you would know this if you ever used one. ' For me the K3-II is a superb camera, up to ISO 8000. That you won't malign me is very humble of you...if not misguided... especially if you think ISO 25,000 makes images that you can sell commercially...if you can more power to you... As for your oink, oink, your opinion.. but the 300 needs so much cropping that you cannot believe it until you use a longer 400mm F2.8 lens , that is also much sharper than your beloved 300. The 300 F4 It is not fast enough to shoot everything I am shooting, ISO whatever. "Its the shooter not the camera" , quite the bold statement from someone who has never used a 400 F2.8.........I do not have first hand knowledge that you have never used this lens but since they are kinda rare I can safely assume you have not. Please correct me if I am wrong, won't be the first time, with some photos with EXIF data.......
Attached Images
View Picture EXIF
PENTAX K-3 II  Photo 
View Picture EXIF
PENTAX K-3 II  Photo 
View Picture EXIF
PENTAX K-3 II  Photo 
View Picture EXIF
PENTAX K-3 II  Photo 
04-26-2019, 09:12 PM   #171
Loyal Site Supporter
Loyal Site Supporter
Merv-O's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Philadelphia
Photos: Albums
Posts: 1,413
All I'm saying is that the K-1, the K-p and the newer Pentaxes have more speed at low light than first perceived. Your 300 f/4 can act as a f2.8 at 6400, and still create commercially viable pictures. you are correct that I have never used the 400 f/2.8 because I have little need for that lens in my daily scope. I meant that you didn't deserve to be maligned, that's all. Photography is a personal endeavor and what one sees as art, others see as rubbish. The 300mm on an APS-c is a 450mm, so I don't get the cropping argument. Again, I trade ISO over f stops and routinely do well on my pics. As an aside, your photos of the wildlife on JPEG at only 85 clarity are quite stunning. Let's leave it at that.
04-27-2019, 04:42 AM - 1 Like   #172
Pentaxian
Site Supporter
normhead's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Near Algonquin Park
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 32,753
QuoteQuote:
Which 2X TC are you using?

Tamron 2X F AF Review

QuoteQuote:
Does your camera get enough light with it attached to a more restrictive lens {say f/4, or even f/5.6} to autofocus?
No

QuoteQuote:
added: I'm trying to learn what the limits of this kind of TC are.
For the 1.4 TC the limit is ƒ4 (but works better on 2.8 glass. For a 2x the limit is ƒ 2.8. This isn't a hard limit, you can extend the range, but you'll feel like you are futzing around.

QuoteQuote:
Your 300 f/4 can act as a f2.8 at 6400, and still create commercially viable pictures.
ƒ4 can never act as ƒ 2.8. The AF system depends on ƒ2.8 DoF for accurate focussing. You want the image calibrated with 1/3 in front, two thirds behind and the subject in the sharpest focus. Using other than ƒ2.8, you get wider DoF and the camera can't be as precise in selecting the focus point. When you focus with 2.8 glass, the lens selects the correct focus point, then stops down from there. The focus point is the best the AF system can select. When I put the 2x TC on the Tamron it never stops searching. WIth the 1.4 TC, the focus lock is accurate and immediate. With the 2x , the point at which it wants to focus is less defined, and many times I interrupt the "searching for the perfect spot" algorithm with the shutter release, because I've found if I don't it never settles on a focus point. The range for acceptable focus is just to wide. The AF can search back and forth within acceptable focus looking for the "right" spot. For that reason, looking at the DoF of the final image, I may not be happy with where the images is sharp with a 5.6 lens.

Or more briefly, your focus point is selected more accurately with 2.8 glass.

The salient point here is the word "can". You can create commercially viable images, but they won't be as good, I find noise starts creeping in and results are unpredictable. Sometimes I get good images with the K-3 at 1600 ISO, sometimes I don't with the K-1 at 800 ISO. So ya, I can also get commercially viable images from my Optio W90 waterproof point and shoot. In fact our best selling image was taken with one. I'm not sure that says anything. You should be able to get a commercial viable image with almost any camera on the market.

I'm quite happy with my 55-300 PLM 4.5-6.3 But let's not pretend it gives me images like the 300 2.8. My standard procedure is to go out and grab a few shots with the K-3 and 55-300, then go back to the car and get the DA 300 2.8 and set up... the subject has to ba around awhile for that to happen, but, you don't want to miss the opportunity because you took time to set up a tripod and long lens when you had the chance.

From a day when I used both. (4 flickr favs)
K-3 and 55-300


K-1 and Tamron 300 2.8 (5 flickr favs)


My flickr followers have spoken. You need ƒ2.8 to maximize your "favs".
I can do both images with the Tamron 300 2.8. It's my choice. With the 55-300 PLM I can only do the top image. But if you do what I did when I used to have only ƒ4 (or slower) telephotos you can always just say " I prefer the top image anyway." I fully expect the ƒ5.6 guys to go and "fav" the top image just to prove me wrong.

From my perspective, I don't take the 6 pound hunk of glass and metal with me for nothing. I take it because it's more functional even if it's less convenient. But as long as It's being carried around in the back seat of the car, it's not even inconvenient. And when I was guaranteed good shooting opportunities, I've carried it as far as 5 miles (with my bad hip and two torn rotator cuffs.)

Last edited by normhead; 04-27-2019 at 05:55 AM.
04-27-2019, 07:53 AM   #173
retired sw engineer
Loyal Site Supporter
reh321's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: South Bend, IN, USA
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 12,737
QuoteOriginally posted by stihlmania Quote
Unless you have used a fast telephoto like the SMC A ☆ 400 F2.8 ED[IF] you may not know exactly what the lens can do, in many different f stop and shutter speed situations. I can use a shutter speed of 1/60 in many low light situations [with a 400mm or a 680mm with the AF1.7, or the 1.4 XL at 560mm]. Not everyone can. Learning how to cancel vibrations on a telephoto on a tripod is for a different discussion. The AF 1.7 has given a new life to the lens for me, plus the K3-II. I have more photos [8,500] taken in the last 2 years with this lens than in the 15 years before. Thank the the AF 1.7 and the K3-II [I almost never use burst mode if you must know]. Sooner or later the lens will need service, please recommend someone who can service this lens.....or, in your opinion, when Ricoh/Pentax will make an equivalent autofocus version....
Unless you have used a KP {or perhaps a K-1ii}, you may not know exactly how a modern body can function in different situations, especially how graceful performance at higher ISO values is changing the rules. Pentax cameras are very good in the niche they have selected for themselves.

When I first started using Pentax in 1979 {yes, I am over 70}, they were one of the prominent brands; I switched to Canon in 1995 because I liked Canon's EF/USM lenses so much better; I wasn't alone in my assessment, and Pentax lost ground to Canon. As a Canon user, I wasn't paying attention to Pentax when the Film Age ended and the Digital Age began, but my understanding is that Pentax lost ground again during that transition. Hoya was able to acquire Pentax because the Pentax of that time had become a shadow of what it had been when I purchased my first Pentax camera. I returned to Pentax in 2015 because I liked what Ricoh was doing with Pentax bodies; in fact, if Ricoh hadn't stepped in, there may not be a Pentax to criticize, but by then they had only so much to work with. At least, they have not absorbed the Pentax brand as Sony did with "the mind of Minolta", but they have had to pick and choose. At the most recent CP+ interview, they used variants of the word "enjoy" over and over again. To be honest, Pentax does not produce 'professional' equipment these days, but they do produce fine equipment for 'enthusiasts'; that orientation shapes their product line; I am not privy to their inner discussions, but I expect that orientation to be their guiding light in coming years. I am having fun with my KP; I am sorry that their product line doesn't fit your needs better.

04-27-2019, 08:00 AM   #174
Pentaxian
Site Supporter
normhead's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Near Algonquin Park
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 32,753
QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
To be honest, Pentax does not produce 'professional' equipment these days, but they do produce fine equipment for 'enthusiasts'; that orientation shapes their product line;
Yet they started with the 15-30 2.8, 24-70 2.8 and 70-200 2.8 that seems to be the sort of pro starting point, and ignored the ƒ4 and variable aperture lenses more popular among enthusiasts. I never appreciate the value of these distinctions.

The three mentioned lenses are as "professional" as anyone's. The DFA*50 1.4 is more professional than almost anyone else's.

Last edited by normhead; 04-27-2019 at 08:06 AM.
04-27-2019, 08:44 AM   #175
Loyal Site Supporter
Loyal Site Supporter
Merv-O's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Philadelphia
Photos: Albums
Posts: 1,413
QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Yet they started with the 15-30 2.8, 24-70 2.8 and 70-200 2.8 that seems to be the sort of pro starting point, and ignored the É4 and variable aperture lenses more popular among enthusiasts. I never appreciate the value of these distinctions.

The three mentioned lenses are as "professional" as anyone's. The DFA*50 1.4 is more professional than almost anyone else's.
The terms "professional" and amateur get bounced around this forum like a rubber ball. The bottom line is with Pentax, you are not restricted by their replacement or revised lenses. an old Takumar will produce professional results in 2019....The hang up is not what Pentax/Ricoh is producing to most off us who use our cameras for work or expression, it's the others who keep Camera data like baseball stats...Canon has 320 lenses, Pentax has 210....really? whop cares. How about putting up the Pentax results next to the CanIkonOny oligarchy results and see for yourself.

I agree with Normhead--these are inane distinctions. Pro/consumer/entry level...if you own a modern DSLR and you have more than 2 lenses, you're an enthusiast. When you grab your camera before your iPhone, you're an enthusiast. If you make $$$ from your photographs, you're a professional. If you're a professional that uses Pentax, according to some on this forum, you are not maximizing your potential....NONSENSE !!!
04-27-2019, 09:24 AM   #176
retired sw engineer
Loyal Site Supporter
reh321's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: South Bend, IN, USA
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 12,737
QuoteOriginally posted by Merv-O Quote
The terms "professional" and amateur get bounced around this forum like a rubber ball. The bottom line is with Pentax, you are not restricted by their replacement or revised lenses. an old Takumar will produce professional results in 2019....The hang up is not what Pentax/Ricoh is producing to most off us who use our cameras for work or expression, it's the others who keep Camera data like baseball stats...Canon has 320 lenses, Pentax has 210....really? whop cares. How about putting up the Pentax results next to the CanIkonOny oligarchy results and see for yourself.

I agree with Normhead--these are inane distinctions. Pro/consumer/entry level...if you own a modern DSLR and you have more than 2 lenses, you're an enthusiast. When you grab your camera before your iPhone, you're an enthusiast. If you make $$$ from your photographs, you're a professional. If you're a professional that uses Pentax, according to some on this forum, you are not maximizing your potential....NONSENSE !!!
But if you look at the lenses offered at B&H, limited by
(1) Prime
(2) AF
(3) at least 400mm
(4) APS-C or larger
(5) aperture f/4 or wider

The list becomes
Canon EF - 7 lenses
Nikon F - 7 lenses
Sony A or E - 2 lenses
Sigma SA - 1 lens
This is a rather rarified group that the OP seems to be operating in, regardless of how you label it.

added: If you further limit it to aperture f/2.8 the list becomes
Canon EF - 2 lenses
Nikon F - 1 lens
Sony E - 1 lens

Last edited by reh321; 04-27-2019 at 09:59 AM.
04-27-2019, 11:09 AM   #177
Loyal Site Supporter
Loyal Site Supporter
Merv-O's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Philadelphia
Photos: Albums
Posts: 1,413
QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
This is a rather rarified group that the OP seems to be operating in, regardless of how you label it.
Ergo...the distinctions come down to wide availability vs. niche. Honestly, I have never tested any Pentax lens or camera body before I bought it. I've returned and/or resold some I didn't care for, but I've been taking pictures for 50 years, and I generally have a good idea of what I need. There are plenty of reasons to use other equipment and the results would be stellar, but again, its personal preference, ergonomics and investment. I don't knock other brands, I only knock crappy results regardless of the equipment used. The OP (and others) may think it's time to move on to a new system, if Pentax doesn't cut it for you, fine, just don't try and convince me Pentax doesn't work for me (it does), I, in turn, won't waste time convincing any of you to stay in a system you don't believe in any longer.
Anyway....
04-27-2019, 12:16 PM - 1 Like   #178
Loyal Site Supporter
Loyal Site Supporter
monochrome's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: St. Louis, Missouri
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 24,296
If you truly need a 400mm or longer AF lens as a tool to practice the ‘hobby’ you are limited to FA and FA* lenses. If you want a pristine lens there is quite little price advantage versus a comparable NIB Canon or Nikon lens. I’m content to use the MF K400, 500 and 1000mm lenses because this is a hobby.

Nonetheless I look at my finances every time an FA* 600/4 with trunk and all the attachments shows up.
04-27-2019, 12:20 PM - 1 Like   #179
Moderator
Man With A Camera
Loyal Site Supporter
Racer X 69's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: The Great Pacific Northwet
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 18,079
QuoteOriginally posted by Merv-O Quote
The terms "professional" and amateur get bounced around this forum like a rubber ball.
Hey, Iím a professional amateur.

Says so in my signature.
04-27-2019, 12:23 PM   #180
retired sw engineer
Loyal Site Supporter
reh321's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: South Bend, IN, USA
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 12,737
QuoteOriginally posted by Merv-O Quote
Ergo...the distinctions come down to wide availability vs. niche. Honestly, I have never tested any Pentax lens or camera body before I bought it. I've returned and/or resold some I didn't care for, but I've been taking pictures for 50 years, and I generally have a good idea of what I need. There are plenty of reasons to use other equipment and the results would be stellar, but again, its personal preference, ergonomics and investment. I don't knock other brands, I only knock crappy results regardless of the equipment used. The OP (and others) may think it's time to move on to a new system, if Pentax doesn't cut it for you, fine, just don't try and convince me Pentax doesn't work for me (it does), I, in turn, won't waste time convincing any of you to stay in a system you don't believe in any longer.
Anyway....
The same for me. I have made a few purchases that didn't work for me, but I learned from the experience. For example, in 2014 I purchased a battery grip and a Sigma 18-270 lens. I had given up on both by the time I went from Canon back to Pentax a year later; the battery grip went in the trash with the body, and I sold the lens to Roberts. Our daughters are visiting today, and after taking a couple of flash pictures, I remembered why I value high ISO on the KP.
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
af, buffer, dslr, equipment, experience, f2.8, flash, hoya, image, images, iso, k-3, k-p, k3, kp, lens, name, opinion, pentax, pentax k-3, post, service, shot, situations, telephoto, video
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Why I won't buy a KP. Sqideyes Pentax KP 113 02-26-2017 02:38 AM
Night Why Why Why eccentricphotography Pentax K-3 Photo Contest 3 06-02-2014 09:36 AM
Burning of the Koran ... ! Why? Why? Why? jpzk General Talk 128 09-14-2010 04:45 PM
Counterfeit SanDisk Extreme III SDHC at Best Buy? Sharkonwheels Pentax Camera and Field Accessories 10 03-12-2009 07:44 PM
There's a reason why Sandisk Extreme III cards are so costly. Vulpix Pentax Camera and Field Accessories 20 05-21-2007 04:50 PM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:49 PM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top