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05-30-2020, 01:10 PM   #1
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Lester Dine 105mm on K-3 Question

OK, I have a question or two if anyone can assist. Forgive my ignorance.

I bought a Lester Dine 105mm lens recently with ring flash as I got a pretty good deal on it and wanted to try some macro.
When I put the lens on my K-3 it asks to input focal length. It will not allow me to input 105mm. Only 100 and then next option is 135mm. I choose 100 as it is closest. Is this info for the metering system?


My next question is that this lens has a 2.8,4,5.6,8,11, 16, 22, and 32 f-stop settings. However on the K-3 I am able to select many f-stops i.e.14, 20,25,29 that are not on the lens. So does the camera stop the lens down to example f-20 or f 14 even though there is not a manual f-stop corresponding on the lens?


Also, this lens has an A setting as well. Do I need to do anything for metering correctly?


Last edited by Hawkfan; 05-30-2020 at 01:56 PM. Reason: Text
05-30-2020, 01:34 PM   #2
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The camera wants to know the focal length so it can adjust the shake reduction (SR) system accordingly. You just pick whatever value is closest to the lens FL, as you did. If you turn off SR in the camera, it won't ask. I am not familiar with this lens, but it's a 70's-ish vintage, isn't it? Does the lens have an 'A' setting on the aperture ring? If so, set it to 'A' and the camera can control the aperture if the camera is set up to allow this. If there isn't an 'A' setting, you may have to set your camera to 'M' mode. You then select whatever f-stop on the lens you want to use, and pick a shutter speed and ISO on the camera. Once you've done this, press the green button to check for proper exposure, and adjust the camera settings accordingly. If I've forgotten something or mis-spoke the procedure someone else can chime in. Oh, if your ring flash runs off the hot shoe, you may need to keep your shutter speed to 1/180 sec or slower for it to sync properly.
05-30-2020, 01:35 PM   #3
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The focal length input is for the SR system. Select the closest. If you're using it on a tripod for macro, SR should be is anyways.

The reason for the different aperture numbers is that the ring on the lens shows just the full stops. On the K-3 you can select steps in between (⅓ or stops, depending how you have it set up). The lens will stop down to the aperture selected in camera (if the ring set to 'A' that is).
05-30-2020, 01:59 PM   #4
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What about metering? As normal, pressing shutter halfway and adjust in M mode to correct exposure? Does it meter as would a newer lens?

05-30-2020, 02:05 PM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by Hawkfan Quote
Is this info for the metering system?
No, this information is required for the shake reduction system of the camera (if the value is too high for your focal length the sensor might overcompensate for your camera movement and you can get even less sharp images than without SR, if the value is too low the camera doesn't compensate enough for your movement - 100 is fine for your lens though).
It also shows up in your exif data of your images so you can more easily determine which lens you used to create a certain image.

QuoteOriginally posted by Hawkfan Quote
My next question is that this lens has a 2.8,4,5.6,8,11, 16, 22, and 32 f-stop settings. However on the K-3 I am able to select many f-stops i.e.14, 20,25,29 that are not on the lens. So does the camera stop the lens down to example f-20 or f 14 even though there is not a manual f-stop corresponding on the lens?
Yes.
For older SLRs that couldn't control your aperture on there own, you had to set your desired aperture by turning the aperture ring to a certain position. The problem of third steps (or even smaller steps) is that the mental calculation for your correct exposure is not that handy (and you also had a limited amount of manually adjustable exposure times) and the expectable impact on the resulting image of such small aperture steps is also not that big. Therefore it was/is more convenient to limit your manually adjustable aperture settings on your aperture ring to half stops (on some lenses only full stops). Nevertheless those aperture values are usable for your camera if the aperture ring of your lens has an A-position and is set on this position, otherwise you have to set your desired aperture on the lens and use green-button metering in M-mode on your camera (or a rule of thump like the sunny-16-rule) to get your correct exposure values.

Last edited by othar; 05-30-2020 at 02:11 PM.
05-30-2020, 02:26 PM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by Hawkfan Quote
What about metering? As normal, pressing shutter halfway and adjust in M mode to correct exposure? Does it meter as would a newer lens?
If the lens is set to the A setting, just use it as you would any other lens (as in a newer one without an aperture ring). All exposures modes should work and meter fine
05-30-2020, 02:27 PM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by Apet-Sure Quote
Does the lens have an 'A' setting on the aperture ring?
If it does, and the camera is set up to permit its use in the menu, you can use Av, TAV, or Program mode on the camera. The light meter will tell the camera what to adjust for proper exposure. In any case, you can use the depth-of-field/exposure preview position on the K-3s on/off switch to check exposure. If shooting in 'M' mode and the preview is too dark or light, just change shutter, aperture, or ISO to compensate.

If the lens doesn't have an 'A' setting, I'm pretty sure pressing the shutter button halfway won't affect the lens. The aperture will just stay wherever you set it.
05-30-2020, 02:42 PM - 1 Like   #8
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I own the Dine 105/2.8 and use it on my K-3...excellent combo

QuoteOriginally posted by Hawkfan Quote
Is this info for the metering system?
No, it is for the shake reduction system. Set it on 100.

QuoteOriginally posted by Hawkfan Quote
So does the camera stop the lens down to example f-20 or f 14 even though there is not a manual f-stop corresponding on the lens?
Yes, the camera is in full control of the aperture as long as the aperture ring is on the "A" position.

QuoteOriginally posted by Hawkfan Quote
Also, this lens has an A setting as well. Do I need to do anything for metering correctly?
As long as the aperture ring is on the "A" position, metering should be the same as with more recent Pentax K-mount lenses with the exception of P-TTL flash metering. While P-TTL flash metering (what your K-3 supports) generally works fine with non-AF lenses, there is an aspect of P-TTL that uses focus distance information provided by auto-focus lenses. The short story is that automated flash exposure may fail with gross over exposure if the subject is very close and/or wide aperture is used and/or high ISO is set.

Is the flash that came with the lens the original Lester Dine model that engages the bayonet tangs on the front of the lens? If so, it probably is fully manual or uses a built-in sensor for flash automation. I know nothing of the flash, but the Lester Dine company is still in busines. With any luck, they may be able to point you to a copy of the flash manual.


Steve

05-30-2020, 03:05 PM   #9
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Yes, the lens has an A setting. And yes it came with the ring flash which has a TTL setting and an Auto setting and auto thyristor.
Everything works and infact everything looks like it was rarely ever handled. I imagine I can just use the flash ring in the auto thristor mode.

I know almost nothing about flash use as I have not even used the built in camera flash except one time. I understand you can dial down or up the flash output in settings. Would that also pertain to using this Dine flash or any other non built in flash?
05-30-2020, 03:15 PM - 1 Like   #10
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Withe the aperture set on "A" just meter as you would with a FA, DA or D-FA lens using the eDial to adjust the aperture depending on the mode. Segmented metering will be supported. The only difference is you can't change the focus point from center.

The flash module only supports TTL not P-TTL so it will only shoot at full power when set to TTL. Auto mode uses the sensor on the flash body which isn't very useful shooting flowers and such. There are actually a third position on the TTL-Auto switch. If you cut the label away to left of the TTL position (cut away an equal amount as to the right of the switch) you can set the flash to 1/16th power. The label is a very thick foil. Alternatively you can peel off the label. The adhesive is quite sticky and even heating with a hair dryer didn't help much so the label wasn't in usable shape afterwards. The flash will set the shutter to flash sync speed though.

You can download the Yuzo or Lester Dine user manual that shows the control unit with the actual back panel.
YUZO Auto Macroflash instruction manual, user manual, PDF manual, free manuals

The Lester Dine manual (practically the same) can be downloaded in the files section of the Kiron Klub Group (formerly of Yahoo Groups):
https://groups.io/g/KironKlub
05-30-2020, 03:44 PM   #11
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So is the ring flash realistically usable? I know nothing about flash really. Is P-TTL of the camera not compatible with the TTL of the flash? If the auto thyristor mode won't work very well, is there a real use of this old flash unit?
05-30-2020, 04:29 PM   #12
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I use mine all the time. Using the auto mode you can learn by judging the background whether to adjust the EV by +/- 2 stops or less from the recommended f-stop. Chimping is your friend. Using 1/16th power at 1:1 magnification you learn what f-stop to start out with depending on the subject usually between f10 and f16.

It's a nice little flash especially since you can switch from ring to point. I only wish the ring had diffusion over it. I'm tempted white wash it or something. Maybe just gluing some tracing paper on it will work.
05-30-2020, 05:00 PM   #13
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That's a great term. Chimping. So is 1/16th power the best way to use it rather than full auto? It doesn't have the 1/16th setting but I did take a small screwdriver and widen the label to left and it does slide over to that position.
05-30-2020, 09:27 PM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by Hawkfan Quote
So is the ring flash realistically usable?
To affirm @Not_a_Number, the answer is a definite yes. It may not be adaptable to use with other lenses, but it will mount to your Dine macro and is will work just fine on your K-3 with the camera in M mode.*

QuoteOriginally posted by Hawkfan Quote
I know nothing about flash really.
It might be a good time to learn and once the basics sink in, your whole view of lighting may change. Probably the most important principle is that flash exposure is based mostly on distance and lens aperture with shutter speed playing almost no role except for advanced technique using flash under bright conditions and other creative stuff.

QuoteOriginally posted by Hawkfan Quote
Is P-TTL of the camera not compatible with the TTL of the flash?
That is quite true. Pentax used to control the flash duration during the exposure itself, "quenching" the flash when enough light had reached the film. That is true TTL flash and is very cool. Your flash was designed to work with those cameras. Sadly, there are cool things that can't easily be done with TTL, but can be done by measuring the required light for a flash setup before the actual exposure. P-TTL measures the light from a short duration "pre-flash" and uses that to calculate flash duration for the actual exposure. P-TTL works well, but it is not something your flash knows how to do.

QuoteOriginally posted by Hawkfan Quote
If the auto thyristor mode won't work very well, is there a real use of this old flash unit?
Yes! You can use it in full manual mode at either full intensity or 1/16 power. This is done by setting aperture (f-number) appropriate for the subject distance, calculated either from guide number or using the calculator table on the back of the flash. Alternatively, you can use the Auto mode with the aperture set to f/11 within the distances available for your choice of ISO(ASA) setting. Proper exposure is determined by distance, aperture and flash power(duration) for a given ISO(ASA) sensitivity.

Using the Auto mode with the camera in M mode and with the manual from the Butkus site available for ready reference would be a good starting place. When the flash is "ready", the camera should automagically switch to the 1/180s flash sync speed. Set the aperture to f/11 and take a shot a something a couple of feet away. With any luck, everything still works and you will have a big smile.

FWIW...I have several "old" flash that I use with my K-3, one of which is a Pentax AF280T. That flash has capabilities similar to your ring flash and works quite nicely.

Steve

* It will also work in the other modes, but best not to play in that space quite yet.

Last edited by stevebrot; 05-30-2020 at 09:39 PM. Reason: fixed ambiguity
05-31-2020, 12:28 PM   #15
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Is the trigger voltage on this flash safe for use on a DSLR hot shoe, for example 24V or less? It would be a shame to fry a K-3.
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