[loco]

Hi all,

I'm hoping those of you who have experience with taking group photos can maybe give me some advice or tips.

I've been asked by my Dad to take some photos next week at his sawmill. He wants some group photos of the guys that work there to use as company Christmas cards. He wants the photos taken outside at the sawmill. I've arranged to do the shoot between 8:30-9:00am next Tuesday.

Problem is, I've never done this before. I'm more of a landscape/cat/nature photographer! So, any advice you can give me would be greatly appreciated. Any things I should definitely do or NOT do?

I believe he wants some shots of several different groups of around 8 or so. And then he also wants one large group photo. I'm not sure of the count, but I believe that would be around 30 folks for the large group shot. I was thinking a ladder might be useful for the large group shot in order to get more people in a smaller space and not be too far away from them. What do you think?

The mill is not the most attractive place, so i'm having trouble deciding where they should pose. Hopefully, he will have some ideas about that. I suppose they can always just gather around the sign in the front.

Thanks very much for your input!

[tvdtvdtvd]

A few simple things:

-Sun to your back.
-Be mindful of the background; pick something not too busy. A flat wall or an open sky are better than
a busy parking lot or construction site.
-Get in tight. Unless there's specific need to highlight where and why the group is gathered, you want
to eliminate as much of the surrounding scene as possible.
-Get in tighter. Try composing full body shots. But also compose a few bust groupings as well.
-Stagger your group into rows rather than having everyone in a line. Will help to get in tight.
-Be fast and efficient to capture everyone in a cheery mood before they get bored.
-Don't stage the group near a cliff

[Miguel]

You can do this and have fun with it as well.
Be as prepared as possible. That means knowing the facts and the reproduction requirements ahead of time. Try to find out what size or aspect ratio the company holiday cards will be sent out as. That will help you prep for framing folks in the camera. A 4x6 (2:3) is a very different setup than a 5x7 or 8x10 and you don't want to crop anyone out of the shot for reproduction's sake.
That way you can visualize how tightly you can pack them into the frame. Some group shots at work are better if folks are spread out handling tools, or shown helping each other as a team. Or you can just have four folks in two lines. Since this is for the company's use, think about what image they want the world to see.
Use your existing photographic sense and judgement. Bring a "normal" focal length lens as well as a wider one, but nothing that will distort bodies or faces.
Sawmills can be visually very interesting, so if you can, try to scout out the place beforehand. Note the position of the sun at the time of day you will be shooting.
Bring a flash, a bracket, and a reflector if you have one (or Google homemade cheapies). You will want to appear authoritative so you can easily direct people where to position themselves but keep smiling and stay in the flow. Be safe too, those blades and cutters are serious.

M

[loco]

Thanks to you both, tvdtvdtvd and Miguel! These are great thoughts I definitely hadn't considered. I will drive over there this weekend and scout out possible locations.

[kjg48359]

-Sun to your back.

I would take a little issue with this. I would always look for something to compose around, but some of the best shots you can get are with sun at odd angles, but then use a fill flash to remove harsh shadows. By those angles, I'd almost say anywhere from directly side to directly in front of the camera. I almost have liked group shots with sun almost directly in front of me (not sunset obviously, but towards mid-day) and with a fill flash, hair and clothing highlights can add a lot of "snap" to a photo.

Just make sure the lens hood blocks out direct sun interference.

[tvdtvdtvd]

I would take a little issue with this. I would always look for something to compose around, but some of the best shots you can get are with sun at odd angles, but then use a fill flash to remove harsh shadows. By those angles, I'd almost say anywhere from directly side to directly in front of the camera. I almost have liked group shots with sun almost directly in front of me (not sunset obviously, but towards mid-day) and with a fill flash, hair and clothing highlights can add a lot of "snap" to a photo.

Just make sure the lens hood blocks out direct sun interference.

I was merely suggesting the simplest, safest course of action. Certainly there are many options and
I'm an big advocate for a break all the rules approach.

I'll update that to: Beware of strong backlight unless you can supplement with fill flash.

[Marktax]

If you have experience herding cats, it will come in handy.

As suggested, compose groups tightly. I always use a normal range zoom because I never know where I might be able to stand and I can frame things according to circumstances. Assuming they are standing, frame small groups of people from mid-thigh (of front row) upwards -- forget the knees and feet. Before firing, say that you are shooting 3 or 4 frames and ask them to remain motionless until cued, not just until they see the first flash go off. Tell them also that if they cannot see the camera, it cannot see them so please do not hide. For the full group of 30, yes, bring that stepladder. A sawmill should have some nice props and backgrounds, and I would try to use them.

[loco]

I appreciate the thoughts on lighting and framing! Thank you, Kevin and Marktax!

I was going to ask which lenses to bring. My initial thought was to bring my DA 15 for the large group shot, however maybe that isn't necessary. The DA 18-135 might be a good option. Of the lenses listed in my signature, are there others you guys would suggest?

[Rondec]

I don't know much, Lori. Just leave space on the edges for cropping to 5 by 7 or 8 by 10. Take a burst of photos -- you can always trade heads in photoshop after the fact.

Hopefully everything goes well. I hate taking photos of people (other than my kids), but fortunately my wife enjoys it, so I always shove those jobs off on her.

[Miguel]

My initial thought was to bring my DA 15 for the large group shot

My concern is that folks at the periphery of the shot will be distorted. Perhaps software correction can fix this. I would aim at 21-35mm on a cropped sensor camera. Your zoom will be fine if you have enough lighting to ensure a reasonably fast shutter speed. Think about stacking and spreading 30 bodies fairly evenly in an artful way. The suggestion for a ladder or stepstool is a good one.

I like using a wireless remote shutter release (they are really cheap) so I can assert more humane control (and entertainment) without being held captive behind the camera.

M

[loco]

Thank you, Rondec!

My concern is that folks at the periphery of the shot will be distorted. Perhaps software correction can fix this. I would aim at 21-35mm on a cropped sensor camera. Your zoom will be fine if you have enough lighting to ensure a reasonably fast shutter speed. Think about stacking and spreading 30 bodies fairly evenly in an artful way. The suggestion for a ladder or stepstool is a good one.

I like using a wireless remote shutter release (they are really cheap) so I can assert more humane control (and entertainment) without being held captive behind the camera.

M

Yes, good point about the wide angle. The posing of these people is going to be a challenge for sure.

My challenge in trying to imagine this is that there needs to be something in the photo to say "sawmill" or else people will get this card and they won't know what they are looking at until they open it. There is a sign out front and that is kind of an obvious, if unimaginative, spot to pose folks. Hopefully when I go by there, I can come up with other ideas. Maybe I can have the guys leaning up against one of the trucks, with one of them in the driver's seat or something.

Thank you all for your advice!

[Marktax]

You will definitely get good ideas on location, I'm sure. I totally recommend that zoom. You might even find a good shot at the 135mm end of that 18-135. Some artfully compressed perspective can be appealing in a group photo.

[Miguel]

My challenge in trying to imagine this is that there needs to be something in the photo to say "sawmill"

People and businesses often self-identify by their tools and their uniforms. So if you are scouting prior to the shots, take note of how folks dress (in the sawmills I've seen here in Washington, red suspenders are common, and that would fit with holiday colors) and what tools can safely and simply communicate (symbolically) both the business and teamwork. I know this is beyond what you may have expected, but even a bunch of Santa hats would work to tie in the holiday context.

A lot of the creativity of photography happens in the planning.

M

[gor80]

this is a difficult question, if many people, you need to decide on the place where they put - it must consider. But I think - if you contact someone you are - you are prompt, clearing, or place on the lawn in front of the building. I think that would be optimal in the shot put saws or other hand tools which men work.
Also, in your place I would have made a couple of photos of the work. or about their jobs - they are sawing or do something.
In fact it is very exciting - if you et the experience, then I think you will easily cope.
Usually for group portraits I do not use the stairs - is only to move away, but people probably better placed in several rows.
Good luck!

for example - I'm not the author of the photos, but in this photo I have

[frogoutofwater]

This is a very timely question a) because the holiday season is approaching (and group shots are very popular); and b) I'm taking a portrait photography course from an amazing teacher who specializes in group photography. You can check out his work (lots of great ideas) here:

www.nealslavin.com and an interesting, recent interview with him here:

Neal Slavin: Why I Photograph Groups - L'Oeil de la Photographie

Others have mentioned this, but the main thing I'm learning about photographing groups is how essential it is to prepare (as much as possible) in advance. When we do our group shoots, we set up lighting and test it with stand-ins first. We try to find out how people usually dress, so that we can anticipate lighting challenges. (For example, the other night we photographed in a studio setting a small group of rabbinical students, who were going to be wearing very dark suits, white shirt, dark hats and have facial hair. Obviously, we needed a fairly wide swath of light with some fill on the other side in order to ensure that all faces were lit.) We use stand-ins to test how close we need to bring people together. For a very large group, we don't use 1-for-1 stand-ins, but, for example, for a group of 20 or so we might try to practise with at least 6-8 people if we can. In your case, you could ask for a few volunteers to serve as stand-ins as you practice - and you might even want to practice the day before (at the same time of day), if possible. Otherwise, plan to work on set up for at least an hour.

I can't add the link from the computer I'm typing on now, but if you go to the Facebook page Neal Slavin Photographer and scroll back to last week, you'll see the end result of our rabbinical students photo shoot. I think the image is worth the PITA factor of digging around on FB for it.

When you're composing a group photo, bring people onto the set in small groups. For example, in a group of 3-5, ask one person to step in and then invite others one or two at a time. For your large group of 30 or so, have people come onto the set in groups of 5-6. There are at least two reasons for this. One, you want to watch carefully the dynamics among the people - which will be more obvious if they organize themselves a few at a time. You'll see who the leader is (or leaders are), how people want to relate to each other, who is the joker, who is shy, etc. And if you're outside in less than ideal conditions, bringing them out in small groups means that you're exposing them to conditions for a shorter period of time.

I noticed that it was helpful when we were shooting groups to have two people (photographer and assistant) involved in the shoot. This is because one or the other of you is usually going to be concentrating on one thing (e.g., getting the lighting right, moving people around) and because of that might be less observant than usual. The other person can observe the group and make suggestions about approaches to the shot. It's definitely one of those situations where two heads are better than one because there's so much to pay attention to.