5 Things We Need to Forget About as Photographers

Kath · 01-20-2015, 09:00 PM - **5 Likes**

Stirring article in Outdoor Photographer, daring us to forget about all the hype and just go out and make a good picture.

http://www.outdoorphotographer.com/blog/jay-goodrich/2015/01/5-things-we-nee...5#.VL8eq7l0zUJ

**MSL** · 01-20-2015, 09:10 PM

Thanks for sharing this. I've never done an HDR, still process my images in Faststone - so I don't do much to most of them and have never looked at DxOMark scores except when I was first looking at cameras and lenses.
But I still have a lot to learn and I still need to develop a work flow and priorities for my shooting (in the limited time I have to use my camera) and this article gives me a comfortable path to follow.

**interested_observer** · 01-20-2015, 09:29 PM

Wonderful article!!!

furryurry · 01-20-2015, 09:35 PM

hasnt it been said like a million times already by a million photographers?

Sagitta · 01-20-2015, 09:36 PM - **2 Likes**

I kind of disagree with him on the plug ins / HDR bit.

Sure, if I had someone throwing wads of cash at me and saying "don't do that", I'd stop in a heartbeat as well! That said, to be honest I view those processes as tools that make my photos enjoyable to me. Full stop. I don't shoot for other people. This is why I'm not a pro. I shoot for me.

The article is nicely written but overall comes across as highly, HIGHLY condescending.

magkelly · 01-20-2015, 10:05 PM

Whatever, yet another blogging photographer who thinks he knows all. Sorry, I have no patience for people like this. I could care less about what he thinks. There's only one statement in this article that I agree with. The rest is up to the individual behind the camera. Do what works for you. End of subject, yawn...

**Miguel** · 01-20-2015, 10:07 PM

That's fairly brash for Outdoor Photographer, so I'm good for that.

M

Sagitta · 01-20-2015, 10:15 PM - **2 Likes**

Originally posted by magkelly

Whatever, yet another blogging photographer who thinks he knows all. Sorry, I have no patience for people like this. I could care less about what he thinks. There's only one statement in this article that I agree with. The rest is up to the individual behind the camera. Do what works for you. End of subject, yawn...

Pretty much.

"Oh HDR is great and plugins are great and this is great and... wait, you're gonna pay me now? But I can't use them? Oh, well those techniques all suck eggs. People using those are posers."

"Did I mention I work for National Geographic?"

promacjoe · 01-20-2015, 11:21 PM - **1 Like**

the fact that he starts off with the wrong information is a hint to his credibility. The first photograph was taken by Joseph Nicéphore Niépce in 1826 or 1827. Not 1725, He is only 100 years off, So it could have been a typo. But he needs to proofread his paper a little better.

And as much as I prefer not using a lot of bells and whistles in my photographs, we use the tools that work for each of us. Yes: we need to stop critiquing our equipment and learn how to use it properly. Yes: we need to stop relying on computers to make our photography better, and try to get it right from the start. but there are situations that computers can help us with. We just should not Rely on them to fix everything. Go out and take pictures. Pay attention and do the best job you can. When you need help from a computer use it. it's only a tool, and tools are made to be used.

abmj · 01-20-2015, 11:52 PM

Meh!

Several of the pros I most admire do in fact use some of the techniques this guy formerly used but now eschews. So what if Nat Geo won't let its photographers use plug-ins. I will never work for Nat Geo and my photos look better with a little sharpening (Nik Sharpener Pro 3) or noise reduction (Nik Define 2.0) or with a little light or color adjustment (NIK Viveza or Nik Color Efex Pro). I know I could do all those things manually in Photoshop (I don't do Lightroom) but they are just so much simpler and faster with the plug-ins. I could raise my own beef as well but it is so much simpler to just buy it at the butcher's. I might even (gasp!) use HDR on rare occasions, when it is called for.

His premise is actually good. We should strive for the best in-camera capture we can get. Where he goes with that premise just gets overly zen and a little silly for the vast majority of photographers.

**geomez** · 01-21-2015, 12:32 AM

Originally posted by Sagitta

I kind of disagree with him on the plug ins / HDR bit.

Sure, if I had someone throwing wads of cash at me and saying "don't do that", I'd stop in a heartbeat as well! That said, to be honest I view those processes as tools that make my photos enjoyable to me. Full stop. I don't shoot for other people. This is why I'm not a pro. I shoot for me.

The article is nicely written but overall comes across as highly, HIGHLY condescending.

I agree completely.

Magazine x, or client y can choose what ever criteria they want to impose when they are commissioning art. Just because they have money and notoriety doesn't mean they get to define photography. They don't get to choose what is art and neither do the photographers they pay. And because money changed hands doesn't make the terms of sale nor methods utilized more legitimate.
A photograph is made up of a photographer, subject, camera, lens (or hole), light, time, and development/post processing. Always. Whether you value one, none, or all of those things are irrelevant. They are all and always will be (new technologies notwithstanding) the anatomy of a photograph, no matter where monetary value is placed.

Somewhere along the way this photographer or his clients have chosen what technologies create photographs and what technologies create something else. Tin type is photography. Analog and digital cameras are photography. A dark room is photography. Automatic exposures and high burst rates are photograpy. Adobe Lightroom is photography. Adobe Photoshop is not photography. Topaz Labs is not photography. HDR is not photography. In reality the advancement of photographic technologies do nothing more than afford a photographer the greater ability to execute and express their vision.

wildman · 01-21-2015, 01:05 AM

Originally posted by Kath

5 Things We Need to Forget About as Photographers

6. Ignore the previous 5 if it suits your photographic purposes.

sfkazimierczak · 01-21-2015, 02:07 AM

I was very enthusiastic about this article, but after reading all those comments here I am not anymore. On one hand I believe everyone should do what suits him best, but on the other hand I saw too many young people (just like me) arguing that ones camera is better than others because it has more megapixels. Maybe people believe in hardware too much these days.

I think that if you thoroughly learn the basics, you can forget about hdrs, plug-ins etc. But sometimes they are necessary to create the image the author wanted to create.

BTW. Great comparison with beef

MartinsB · 01-21-2015, 03:03 AM - **1 Like**

Nonsense. He's simply attracting viewers to get more clicks and show more ads. Don't believe? See right below the article: "Want EXCLUSIVE access to video tutorials, private blog posts, and discounts unavailable to non-subscribers?"

Final quality of photography is always dependent on both the photographer's artistic skills and technical capabilities. Saying that no technical aspects matterts is at least misleading. I don't want to examine the entire article, almost every categorical statement is exaggerated.
Take one of the last sentences: "And finally, if you truly look at the world with the eyes of a child YOU will succeed." How succeed? Only using your eyes? Or hands, equipment and skills to use that gear?

drypenn · 01-21-2015, 03:13 AM

Personally, if photography is a vital source of income, and your employer/clients wants you to stop using HDR, then you have to do as you are told.

Now, if photography is a mere hobby, you can do pretty much anything in pursuit of your own personal joy. If that means collecting cameras, lenses, then by all means, indulge. If that means doing HDR, and running them to a gamut of software, to every single photo you've taken, go ahead, if that's what you want. If that means scouring every technical review in the net, fine! Bottomline is, if photography is a mere hobby, let's not get swayed by every little dos and donts we read. It's our own joy, our own happiness, we know our own selves more than these bloggers.

01-20-2015, 09:00 PM - 5 Likes	#1
Kath Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Portland, OR Photos: Gallery Posts: 737	5 Things We Need to Forget About as Photographers Stirring article in Outdoor Photographer, daring us to forget about all the hype and just go out and make a good picture. http://www.outdoorphotographer.com/blog/jay-goodrich/2015/01/5-things-we-nee...5#.VL8eq7l0zUJ

01-21-2015, 01:05 AM	#12
wildman Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Flyover America Posts: 4,469	Originally posted by Kath 5 Things We Need to Forget About as Photographers 6. Ignore the previous 5 if it suits your photographic purposes. Last edited by wildman; 01-21-2015 at 01:13 AM.

01-21-2015, 02:07 AM	#13
sfkazimierczak Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2014 Photos: Gallery Posts: 56	I was very enthusiastic about this article, but after reading all those comments here I am not anymore. On one hand I believe everyone should do what suits him best, but on the other hand I saw too many young people (just like me) arguing that ones camera is better than others because it has more megapixels. Maybe people believe in hardware too much these days. I think that if you thoroughly learn the basics, you can forget about hdrs, plug-ins etc. But sometimes they are necessary to create the image the author wanted to create. BTW. Great comparison with beef Last edited by sfkazimierczak; 01-21-2015 at 02:14 AM.

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01-20-2015, 09:10 PM	#2
MSL Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Greater Toronto Area Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,749	Thanks for sharing this. I've never done an HDR, still process my images in Faststone - so I don't do much to most of them and have never looked at DxOMark scores except when I was first looking at cameras and lenses. But I still have a lot to learn and I still need to develop a work flow and priorities for my shooting (in the limited time I have to use my camera) and this article gives me a comfortable path to follow.

01-20-2015, 09:29 PM	#3
interested_observer Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Tumbleweed, Arizona Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 5,707	Wonderful article!!!

01-20-2015, 09:35 PM	#4
furryurry Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: NYC Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 786	hasnt it been said like a million times already by a million photographers?

01-20-2015, 09:36 PM - 2 Likes	#5
Sagitta Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Maine Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,081	I kind of disagree with him on the plug ins / HDR bit. Sure, if I had someone throwing wads of cash at me and saying "don't do that", I'd stop in a heartbeat as well! That said, to be honest I view those processes as tools that make my photos enjoyable to me. Full stop. I don't shoot for other people. This is why I'm not a pro. I shoot for me. The article is nicely written but overall comes across as highly, HIGHLY condescending.

01-20-2015, 10:05 PM	#6
magkelly Veteran Member Join Date: May 2010 Photos: Gallery Posts: 5,901	Whatever, yet another blogging photographer who thinks he knows all. Sorry, I have no patience for people like this. I could care less about what he thinks. There's only one statement in this article that I agree with. The rest is up to the individual behind the camera. Do what works for you. End of subject, yawn...

01-20-2015, 10:07 PM	#7
Miguel Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Near Seattle Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,743	That's fairly brash for Outdoor Photographer, so I'm good for that. M

01-20-2015, 10:15 PM - 2 Likes	#8
Sagitta Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Maine Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,081	Originally posted by magkelly Whatever, yet another blogging photographer who thinks he knows all. Sorry, I have no patience for people like this. I could care less about what he thinks. There's only one statement in this article that I agree with. The rest is up to the individual behind the camera. Do what works for you. End of subject, yawn... Pretty much. "Oh HDR is great and plugins are great and this is great and... wait, you're gonna pay me now? But I can't use them? Oh, well those techniques all suck eggs. People using those are posers." "Did I mention I work for National Geographic?"

01-20-2015, 11:21 PM - 1 Like	#9
promacjoe Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Posts: 340	the fact that he starts off with the wrong information is a hint to his credibility. The first photograph was taken by Joseph Nicéphore Niépce in 1826 or 1827. Not 1725, He is only 100 years off, So it could have been a typo. But he needs to proofread his paper a little better. And as much as I prefer not using a lot of bells and whistles in my photographs, we use the tools that work for each of us. Yes: we need to stop critiquing our equipment and learn how to use it properly. Yes: we need to stop relying on computers to make our photography better, and try to get it right from the start. but there are situations that computers can help us with. We just should not Rely on them to fix everything. Go out and take pictures. Pay attention and do the best job you can. When you need help from a computer use it. it's only a tool, and tools are made to be used.

01-20-2015, 11:52 PM	#10
abmj Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Central California Posts: 600	Meh! Several of the pros I most admire do in fact use some of the techniques this guy formerly used but now eschews. So what if Nat Geo won't let its photographers use plug-ins. I will never work for Nat Geo and my photos look better with a little sharpening (Nik Sharpener Pro 3) or noise reduction (Nik Define 2.0) or with a little light or color adjustment (NIK Viveza or Nik Color Efex Pro). I know I could do all those things manually in Photoshop (I don't do Lightroom) but they are just so much simpler and faster with the plug-ins. I could raise my own beef as well but it is so much simpler to just buy it at the butcher's. I might even (gasp!) use HDR on rare occasions, when it is called for. His premise is actually good. We should strive for the best in-camera capture we can get. Where he goes with that premise just gets overly zen and a little silly for the vast majority of photographers.

01-21-2015, 12:32 AM	#11
geomez Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Roanoke, Virginia, USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,760	Originally posted by Sagitta I kind of disagree with him on the plug ins / HDR bit. Sure, if I had someone throwing wads of cash at me and saying "don't do that", I'd stop in a heartbeat as well! That said, to be honest I view those processes as tools that make my photos enjoyable to me. Full stop. I don't shoot for other people. This is why I'm not a pro. I shoot for me. The article is nicely written but overall comes across as highly, HIGHLY condescending. I agree completely. Magazine x, or client y can choose what ever criteria they want to impose when they are commissioning art. Just because they have money and notoriety doesn't mean they get to define photography. They don't get to choose what is art and neither do the photographers they pay. And because money changed hands doesn't make the terms of sale nor methods utilized more legitimate. A photograph is made up of a photographer, subject, camera, lens (or hole), light, time, and development/post processing. Always. Whether you value one, none, or all of those things are irrelevant. They are all and always will be (new technologies notwithstanding) the anatomy of a photograph, no matter where monetary value is placed. Somewhere along the way this photographer or his clients have chosen what technologies create photographs and what technologies create something else. Tin type is photography. Analog and digital cameras are photography. A dark room is photography. Automatic exposures and high burst rates are photograpy. Adobe Lightroom is photography. Adobe Photoshop is not photography. Topaz Labs is not photography. HDR is not photography. In reality the advancement of photographic technologies do nothing more than afford a photographer the greater ability to execute and express their vision.

01-21-2015, 03:03 AM - 1 Like	#14
MartinsB Forum Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Posts: 67	Nonsense. He's simply attracting viewers to get more clicks and show more ads. Don't believe? See right below the article: "Want EXCLUSIVE access to video tutorials, private blog posts, and discounts unavailable to non-subscribers?" Final quality of photography is always dependent on both the photographer's artistic skills and technical capabilities. Saying that no technical aspects matterts is at least misleading. I don't want to examine the entire article, almost every categorical statement is exaggerated. Take one of the last sentences: "And finally, if you truly look at the world with the eyes of a child YOU will succeed." How succeed? Only using your eyes? Or hands, equipment and skills to use that gear?

01-21-2015, 03:13 AM	#15
drypenn Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Photos: Albums Posts: 963	Personally, if photography is a vital source of income, and your employer/clients wants you to stop using HDR, then you have to do as you are told. Now, if photography is a mere hobby, you can do pretty much anything in pursuit of your own personal joy. If that means collecting cameras, lenses, then by all means, indulge. If that means doing HDR, and running them to a gamut of software, to every single photo you've taken, go ahead, if that's what you want. If that means scouring every technical review in the net, fine! Bottomline is, if photography is a mere hobby, let's not get swayed by every little dos and donts we read. It's our own joy, our own happiness, we know our own selves more than these bloggers.