The Age of the Standalone Still Camera is Coming to and End

TaoMaas · 02-25-2015, 02:36 PM

I don't agree with the writer's premise that only pros will use DSLRS although I do agree that smartphones have already won the P&S battle, as well as the home movie camera battle. On the other hand, people who own good cameras (as we on this board would define "good cameras") have always been kinda odd ducks. It's just not terribly common.

**PJ1** · 02-25-2015, 03:39 PM

Originally posted by Dartmoor Dave

It'll die the same way .... manual gearboxes in cars died

Never owned an automatic. Figured I wouldn't know what to do with my spare hand and foot. That may mean I am an unreconstructed Neanderthal, but I suspect the DSLR market will survive in some form if enough people want an image that they create rather than a snap that they just take and move on. Photography did not kill painting as an art form and I doubt that the convenience of an in-phone camera will kill "photography as we know it". If you value quality above quantity you need more control over the parameters than in-phone cameras currently allow, and it would make little sense to develop cell phones very far in the direction of DSLRs.

**Canada_Rockies** · 02-25-2015, 04:34 PM

I have owned nothing but automatic cars since April 30, 1984. Why? The vehicle I wanted did not come with anything else. Can I still drive a stick? You betcha! Much to the surprise of the younger fellow whose jacked up Chevy pickup with the fancy shifter knob (no gear patern) was in the way of something else. Started it, backed out, drove to a safer place and parked. "I should have known YOU could drive it."

MadMathMind · 02-25-2015, 05:15 PM

Originally posted by UncleVanya

I fear this may be true - and I don't know that it will be noticed by most. Yes a lot of us have a lot of gear and a lot of great images are created - but people in general don't care anymore.

I don't think they ever did. They took a few photos here and there but for the most part, they would just sit in a box somewhere to gather dust. Eventually, people stopped shooting entirely, most likely after their kids were "beyond cute."

**hjoseph7** · 02-25-2015, 08:34 PM

The other day I saw a woman taking a picture of a tall building with a Tablet. One of those 12+ inch Tablets. Apparently she told her male companion who was driving, to stop car and hold up traffic while she composed and took this picture with her tablet ?

**Canada_Rockies** · 02-25-2015, 08:39 PM

Originally posted by jcdoss

This is a photography forum, so let me show you my knob.

Singles, Feb 10 taken with Pentax K-x and M20/4 by jasoncdoss, on Flickr

Nothing so fancy. His, IIRC, was a chrome gnome head. You've got the numbers on top. That makes it way too easy to operate. I don't even remember if Reverse was the nose or the right eyebrow. The overcentre spring was to the left.

Dartmoor Dave · 02-26-2015, 02:25 AM

I get a pure tactile pleasure from a well-timed double-clutch down through the gears into a corner. Same way that I get a pure tactile pleasure from shooting film with my K1000, my hands seeming to work the controls by themselves with no conscious thought required. It's about taking pleasure from the process as a thing of value in itself, and it's why there will always be a demand for cameras that give the photographer total control. The type of cameras that folk like us lot prefer to use will always exist, but they'll become rarer and more expensive as the masses depend ever more on software assistance.

cxdoo · 02-26-2015, 03:07 AM

Originally posted by PJ1

Photography did not kill painting as an art form and I doubt that the convenience of an in-phone camera will kill "photography as we know it".

Originally posted by Dartmoor Dave

Same way that I get a pure tactile pleasure from shooting film with my K1000, my hands seeming to work the controls by themselves with no conscious thought required. It's about taking pleasure from the process as a thing of value in itself, and it's why there will always be a demand for cameras that give the photographer total control. The type of cameras that folk like us lot prefer to use will always exist, but they'll become rarer and more expensive as the masses depend ever more on software assistance.

I'd like to think that phone cameras will do the same for dedicated cameras as photography did for painting, i.e. free them from the obligation of recording reality. However I feel that's rather romantic view, the same as Dave's above. More realistically, phone cameras won't replace dedicated ones as long as they can't physically achieve similar results, at least to our eyes. And IMHO they won't for a long time, if ever.

BTW, I prefer manual to automatic, but what I really hate is manumatic, at least Toyota's MMT.

wildman · 02-26-2015, 06:52 AM

the vast majority of photographers will continue the exodus towards smartphones.
Capturing images with a phone no more makes me a "photographer" then toasting my bread in a toaster makes me a baker.

The key is that the software on those smartphones, and the social media platforms and instant connection to the web – ARE BETTER and cannot be overcome by camera companies that fail to integrate software within their camera bodies going forward.
Totally irrelevant to the way I use a camera.

The engineering power and ideas behind the variety of photo / video and more important the social media software that can be installed on your phone is simply too powerful to ignore.
See above

And another HUGE factor: who wants to stick a CF/SD card in a computer, import, edit, tone, export, share / publish a website anymore – when you can do the same thing in 1-3 clicks of your thumb on a Smartphone?
I do.

The battle is over… the smartphones and iOSs have won.
A war metaphor really explains anything? Winners and losers?

no camera company can compete with that, and they simply haven’t even tried to put editing/social media software into their cameras, which is a potentially devastating oversight long term.
I have no problem with that.

My conclusion - what a narrow parochial view of what photography and photographers are about - I'm not overly concerned about the future of photography as I understand the term.

BrianR · 02-26-2015, 07:13 AM

Originally posted by Not a Number

Wristwatches were supposed to be doomed too.

Isn't their revival more as a fashion accessory than a functional item? DSLR's could go this way, Pentax has the design chops to lead the charge: Pentax LX Special GOLD Edition, 1981 - Prelude

TaoMaas · 02-26-2015, 12:55 PM

Originally posted by BrianR

Isn't their revival more as a fashion accessory than a functional item?

That depends upon a person's age, I suspect. For some of us, there is no revival because they never went away!

BrianR · 02-26-2015, 01:31 PM

Originally posted by TaoMaas

That depends upon a person's age, I suspect. For some of us, there is no revival because they never went away!

A stuck watch is accurate twice per day, a stuck fashion accessory is in-style twice per half-century

vonBaloney · 02-26-2015, 01:34 PM

I would like to point out at this juncture that vinyl records just came off their biggest selling year in two decades...

wildman · 02-26-2015, 02:15 PM

Originally posted by TaoMaas

I don't agree with the writer's premise that only pros will use DSLRS although I do agree that smartphones have already won the P&S battle, as well as the home movie camera battle. On the other hand, people who own good cameras (as we on this board would define "good cameras") have always been kinda odd ducks. It's just not terribly common.

I pretty much agree.

I think his logic is flawed. He seem to think that all, or most of the folks that now use a phone for image capture were people that have a deep interest in photography and therefore required an advanced camera and that now, with camera phones, that interest and need is adequately met with a camera phone.

Those folks that now use a phone for a camera are no more "photographers" than my my mother was back in the 1940s taking family snapshots of the kids with her Brownie. The camera for her was just a means to an end and nothing more. I just don't see how those folks moving from a PS to a phone necessarily has any substantial impact on the demand for advanced photo gear.

reeftool · 02-26-2015, 09:18 PM

The smart phone is a wonderful device and some are very capable cameras. In his blog he mentions "all but a few professionals..." and I think he's off base a bit. The camera phone has mostly replaced the P&S snapshot camera that the the everyday masses use to take pictures but they are very limited. They can't replace a good camera, at least not yet and even looking to the future, I don't see it happening anytime soon. As long as there are people who want to shoot a quality photo, there will be cameras to fill that need.

02-26-2015, 01:34 PM	#43
vonBaloney Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Albuquerque, NM Posts: 6,029	I would like to point out at this juncture that vinyl records just came off their biggest selling year in two decades... Last edited by vonBaloney; 02-26-2015 at 01:49 PM.

02-26-2015, 02:15 PM	#44
wildman Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Flyover America Posts: 4,469	Originally posted by TaoMaas I don't agree with the writer's premise that only pros will use DSLRS although I do agree that smartphones have already won the P&S battle, as well as the home movie camera battle. On the other hand, people who own good cameras (as we on this board would define "good cameras") have always been kinda odd ducks. It's just not terribly common. I pretty much agree. I think his logic is flawed. He seem to think that all, or most of the folks that now use a phone for image capture were people that have a deep interest in photography and therefore required an advanced camera and that now, with camera phones, that interest and need is adequately met with a camera phone. Those folks that now use a phone for a camera are no more "photographers" than my my mother was back in the 1940s taking family snapshots of the kids with her Brownie. The camera for her was just a means to an end and nothing more. I just don't see how those folks moving from a PS to a phone necessarily has any substantial impact on the demand for advanced photo gear. Last edited by wildman; 02-26-2015 at 02:26 PM.

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02-25-2015, 02:36 PM	#31
TaoMaas Pentaxian Join Date: May 2007 Location: Oklahoma City Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,574	I don't agree with the writer's premise that only pros will use DSLRS although I do agree that smartphones have already won the P&S battle, as well as the home movie camera battle. On the other hand, people who own good cameras (as we on this board would define "good cameras") have always been kinda odd ducks. It's just not terribly common.

02-25-2015, 03:39 PM	#32
PJ1 Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Toowoomba, Australia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 5,486	Originally posted by Dartmoor Dave It'll die the same way .... manual gearboxes in cars died Never owned an automatic. Figured I wouldn't know what to do with my spare hand and foot. That may mean I am an unreconstructed Neanderthal, but I suspect the DSLR market will survive in some form if enough people want an image that they create rather than a snap that they just take and move on. Photography did not kill painting as an art form and I doubt that the convenience of an in-phone camera will kill "photography as we know it". If you value quality above quantity you need more control over the parameters than in-phone cameras currently allow, and it would make little sense to develop cell phones very far in the direction of DSLRs.

02-25-2015, 04:34 PM	#33
Canada_Rockies Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Sparwood, BC, Canada Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,385	I have owned nothing but automatic cars since April 30, 1984. Why? The vehicle I wanted did not come with anything else. Can I still drive a stick? You betcha! Much to the surprise of the younger fellow whose jacked up Chevy pickup with the fancy shifter knob (no gear patern) was in the way of something else. Started it, backed out, drove to a safer place and parked. "I should have known YOU could drive it."

02-25-2015, 05:15 PM	#34
MadMathMind Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Houston, TX Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,717	Originally posted by UncleVanya I fear this may be true - and I don't know that it will be noticed by most. Yes a lot of us have a lot of gear and a lot of great images are created - but people in general don't care anymore. I don't think they ever did. They took a few photos here and there but for the most part, they would just sit in a box somewhere to gather dust. Eventually, people stopped shooting entirely, most likely after their kids were "beyond cute."

02-25-2015, 08:34 PM	#35
hjoseph7 Site Supporter Join Date: May 2014 Location: Minnesota Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,048	The other day I saw a woman taking a picture of a tall building with a Tablet. One of those 12+ inch Tablets. Apparently she told her male companion who was driving, to stop car and hold up traffic while she composed and took this picture with her tablet ?

02-25-2015, 08:39 PM	#36
Canada_Rockies Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Sparwood, BC, Canada Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,385	Originally posted by jcdoss This is a photography forum, so let me show you my knob. Singles, Feb 10 taken with Pentax K-x and M20/4 by jasoncdoss, on Flickr Nothing so fancy. His, IIRC, was a chrome gnome head. You've got the numbers on top. That makes it way too easy to operate. I don't even remember if Reverse was the nose or the right eyebrow. The overcentre spring was to the left.

02-26-2015, 02:25 AM	#37
Dartmoor Dave Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Dartmoor, UK Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,890	I get a pure tactile pleasure from a well-timed double-clutch down through the gears into a corner. Same way that I get a pure tactile pleasure from shooting film with my K1000, my hands seeming to work the controls by themselves with no conscious thought required. It's about taking pleasure from the process as a thing of value in itself, and it's why there will always be a demand for cameras that give the photographer total control. The type of cameras that folk like us lot prefer to use will always exist, but they'll become rarer and more expensive as the masses depend ever more on software assistance.

02-26-2015, 03:07 AM	#38
cxdoo Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Limassol, Cyprus Posts: 1,150	Originally posted by PJ1 Photography did not kill painting as an art form and I doubt that the convenience of an in-phone camera will kill "photography as we know it". Originally posted by Dartmoor Dave Same way that I get a pure tactile pleasure from shooting film with my K1000, my hands seeming to work the controls by themselves with no conscious thought required. It's about taking pleasure from the process as a thing of value in itself, and it's why there will always be a demand for cameras that give the photographer total control. The type of cameras that folk like us lot prefer to use will always exist, but they'll become rarer and more expensive as the masses depend ever more on software assistance. I'd like to think that phone cameras will do the same for dedicated cameras as photography did for painting, i.e. free them from the obligation of recording reality. However I feel that's rather romantic view, the same as Dave's above. More realistically, phone cameras won't replace dedicated ones as long as they can't physically achieve similar results, at least to our eyes. And IMHO they won't for a long time, if ever. BTW, I prefer manual to automatic, but what I really hate is manumatic, at least Toyota's MMT.

02-26-2015, 06:52 AM	#39
wildman Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Flyover America Posts: 4,469	the vast majority of photographers will continue the exodus towards smartphones. Capturing images with a phone no more makes me a "photographer" then toasting my bread in a toaster makes me a baker. The key is that the software on those smartphones, and the social media platforms and instant connection to the web – ARE BETTER and cannot be overcome by camera companies that fail to integrate software within their camera bodies going forward. Totally irrelevant to the way I use a camera. The engineering power and ideas behind the variety of photo / video and more important the social media software that can be installed on your phone is simply too powerful to ignore. See above And another HUGE factor: who wants to stick a CF/SD card in a computer, import, edit, tone, export, share / publish a website anymore – when you can do the same thing in 1-3 clicks of your thumb on a Smartphone? I do. The battle is over… the smartphones and iOSs have won. A war metaphor really explains anything? Winners and losers? no camera company can compete with that, and they simply haven’t even tried to put editing/social media software into their cameras, which is a potentially devastating oversight long term. I have no problem with that. My conclusion - what a narrow parochial view of what photography and photographers are about - I'm not overly concerned about the future of photography as I understand the term.

02-26-2015, 07:13 AM	#40
BrianR Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Ontario Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,332	Originally posted by Not a Number Wristwatches were supposed to be doomed too. Isn't their revival more as a fashion accessory than a functional item? DSLR's could go this way, Pentax has the design chops to lead the charge: Pentax LX Special GOLD Edition, 1981 - Prelude

02-26-2015, 12:55 PM	#41
TaoMaas Pentaxian Join Date: May 2007 Location: Oklahoma City Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,574	Originally posted by BrianR Isn't their revival more as a fashion accessory than a functional item? That depends upon a person's age, I suspect. For some of us, there is no revival because they never went away!

02-26-2015, 01:31 PM	#42
BrianR Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Ontario Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,332	Originally posted by TaoMaas That depends upon a person's age, I suspect. For some of us, there is no revival because they never went away! A stuck watch is accurate twice per day, a stuck fashion accessory is in-style twice per half-century

02-26-2015, 09:18 PM	#45
reeftool Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Upstate New York Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 9,555	The smart phone is a wonderful device and some are very capable cameras. In his blog he mentions "all but a few professionals..." and I think he's off base a bit. The camera phone has mostly replaced the P&S snapshot camera that the the everyday masses use to take pictures but they are very limited. They can't replace a good camera, at least not yet and even looking to the future, I don't see it happening anytime soon. As long as there are people who want to shoot a quality photo, there will be cameras to fill that need.