Photography on the cheap... It can be done.

**Lowell Goudge** · 05-09-2015, 05:39 AM

Originally posted by JeffB

My experience with using "old" i.e. pre-digital era) glass on digital bodies has been generally frustrating and negative. Are there some real gems out there from the K1000 era? Yes. But good luck finding a mint copy of the SMC Pentax-M* 300mm F4 for less than you could buy a brand new HD PENTAX-DA 55-300mm. The modern lens will perform as good or better AND be much, much easier to learn with and use. Plus it is weather sealed. Plus it is autofocus. Plus it allows you to use all the lovely features on the digital body that are unavailable when using an old manual lens.

One thing to consider. When comparing old lenses to new ones.

New lenses, especially zooms are generally better than old MF zooms (of course there are exceptions like the vivitar Series 1 lenses) but old primes are pretty sharp, and hard to beat (for sharpness) with even new lenses.

Primes, especially tele photos are pretty simple lenses, and people knew the calculations for hundreds of years.

JeffB · 05-09-2015, 10:11 AM - **1 Like**

It is true that basic lens formulas for some focal lengths have remained unchanged for 100+ years. But there are major differences in modern designs optimized for digital sensors. The most important is that many (especially wide angles) are designed to project parallel light beams from the rear element onto the sensor focal plane. Old film era glass projected diverging light rays that hit the edges of the film at often shallow angles. Film didn't care. Sensors do care and this contributes to extreme fringing and exposure falloff at the edges when using older wide lenses on digital sensors.

Ironically, smaller APS size sensors effectively mask this effect by cropping off the most affected portion of the image. But when people start putting old film era glass on "full frame" digital sensors the effect becomes painfully obvious.

Look at the lengths Leica went to dealing with this. They customized their sensors so edge pixels are optimized to accept light falling on them at an angle.

**clackers** · 05-09-2015, 03:19 PM

Originally posted by JeffB

Ironically, smaller APS size sensors effectively mask this effect by cropping off the most affected portion of the image. But when people start putting old film era glass on "full frame" digital sensors the effect becomes painfully obvious.

.

Well, if you're in this forum, Jeff, you're using Pentax bodies and "effectively" masking this as you say.

You're getting the best out of film lenses - cheap or expensive - with the APS-C format.

Even for the future full frame, why don't you look at the FF Lenses on Digital thread, for many, many beautiful shots our members have taken with old lenses. I use an A7 myself and have no problems with the glass I own.

The effect you're talking about applies chiefly to very wide specimens.

Leica in particular have a problem in that they have rangefinder lenses in their history.

jimr-pdx · 05-09-2015, 08:03 PM

Good topic and story!
I generally stick to old primes & new zooms. Since SR cannot auto-adjust to an old zoom (and Pentax did not choose to add FL input as a button choice) I prefer primes to maximize both IQ and SR accuracy. I am getting a split-screen focus to maximize focus next; hope the $30 auction knockoff will serve on my K-r

I am really surprised at recent deals I am seeing here and at eBay. Film lenses that I have used on/off for years is cheaper now, right before the 36×24 camera arrives. Curious!

Auzzie-Phoenix · 05-09-2015, 10:13 PM

I think I might just invest in the 6x7 and 645 lens mount adapters. Huge glass, but I've heard it works great for image clarity/sharpness on old primes.

**From1980** · 05-09-2015, 11:26 PM

Originally posted by Auzzie-Phoenix

I think I might just invest in the 6x7 and 645 lens mount adapters. Huge glass, but I've heard it works great for image clarity/sharpness on old primes.

And an investment it will be! For the expense acquiring those adapters you could buy several old glass gems instead. The adapter usually goes in the $200 range and that would pretty well defeat the purpose of trying do things cheaper which I am all for. I have the 645 adapter but also most of the 645 system and A lenses so the adapter allows me to use those on 35mm and APSC cameras too. It`s not usually a good idea to get the larger format lenses only for use on the smaller formats. You could be disappointed. Central sharpness is great on most of them but they were designed to make an image subjected to less enlargement than 35mm and especially DSLRs.
Later, the best thing about finding those deals on old, overlooked lenses will be having them for coming full-frame.

Auzzie-Phoenix · 05-10-2015, 07:18 PM

Hmmm... didn't know they cost that much. Well... no cheapie ebay 67/645 glass for me.

**From1980** · 05-10-2015, 09:11 PM

There are cheaper alternatives to the genuine Pentax mount adapters such as Fotodiox and others but many have posted here on the PF and other places that these are an unreliable fit and can cause problems.

Dartmoor Dave · 05-11-2015, 12:46 AM

The best bargain primes will always be Takumars and K mounts in the 28mm/35mm/50mm range simply because there are so many of them around. It was inevitable that prices would go up for the rarer legacy ultra-wides and long telephotos once the ff camera was announced, simply because of supply and demand.

Multi-coated · 05-11-2015, 08:21 AM

Surely can be done. I was recently asked by a friend to put together a DSLR kit for her 13-year-old daughter. Budget of 600USD. Everything had to be new with warranty. Easy enough. 600 covered a Pentax K-50 bundle including a 18-55, 50-200, AF200FG, kit bag and card. Also a DA 35/2.4 purchased separately.

All worked out. The little girl was so happy she shed a few tears, the parents relieved that their budget wasn't busted.

+1 Pentax forum members for pointing out solid deals. Last I heard the kid and her K-50 are inseparable. The little girl's father, a Canikon fundamentalist initially less than thrilled with his offspring's heresy, is now questioning his faith. :-)

**clackers** · 05-11-2015, 12:35 PM

Originally posted by Multi-coated

+1 Pentax forum members for pointing out solid deals. Last I heard the kid and her K-50 are inseparable. The little girl's father, a Canikon fundamentalist initially less than thrilled with his offspring's heresy, is now questioning his faith. :-)

Nice story, MC.

Starting to show interest in boys, fashion and Pentax, this girl's father must think she's now outta control.

Multi-coated · 05-11-2015, 05:04 PM

Originally posted by clackers

Nice story, MC.

Starting to show interest in boys, fashion and Pentax, this girl's father must think she's now outta control.

That's pretty much the situation. I hope he is able to overcome the Pentax issue. :-)

**c.a.m** · 05-11-2015, 05:18 PM

Originally posted by Multi-coated

That's pretty much the situation. I hope he is able to overcome the Pentax issue. :-)

Just wait until she starts hinting for the FA Limiteds...

Multi-coated · 05-11-2015, 05:49 PM

Originally posted by c.a.m

Just wait until she starts hinting for the FA Limiteds...

The dad is a nice guy despite being a Canikonista. Should he ever get under my skin.... His wife, daughter and I will have a Limited discussion. :-)

**From1980** · 05-11-2015, 06:13 PM

Hope this girl grows up to be thankful she was blessed with deliverance from the false doctrines of Canikonism.

05-11-2015, 08:21 AM	#40
Multi-coated Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Photos: Albums Posts: 95	Surely can be done. I was recently asked by a friend to put together a DSLR kit for her 13-year-old daughter. Budget of 600USD. Everything had to be new with warranty. Easy enough. 600 covered a Pentax K-50 bundle including a 18-55, 50-200, AF200FG, kit bag and card. Also a DA 35/2.4 purchased separately. All worked out. The little girl was so happy she shed a few tears, the parents relieved that their budget wasn't busted. +1 Pentax forum members for pointing out solid deals. Last I heard the kid and her K-50 are inseparable. The little girl's father, a Canikon fundamentalist initially less than thrilled with his offspring's heresy, is now questioning his faith. :-) Last edited by Multi-coated; 05-11-2015 at 02:27 PM.

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05-09-2015, 05:39 AM	#31
Lowell Goudge Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,887	Originally posted by JeffB My experience with using "old" i.e. pre-digital era) glass on digital bodies has been generally frustrating and negative. Are there some real gems out there from the K1000 era? Yes. But good luck finding a mint copy of the SMC Pentax-M* 300mm F4 for less than you could buy a brand new HD PENTAX-DA 55-300mm. The modern lens will perform as good or better AND be much, much easier to learn with and use. Plus it is weather sealed. Plus it is autofocus. Plus it allows you to use all the lovely features on the digital body that are unavailable when using an old manual lens. One thing to consider. When comparing old lenses to new ones. New lenses, especially zooms are generally better than old MF zooms (of course there are exceptions like the vivitar Series 1 lenses) but old primes are pretty sharp, and hard to beat (for sharpness) with even new lenses. Primes, especially tele photos are pretty simple lenses, and people knew the calculations for hundreds of years.

05-09-2015, 10:11 AM - 1 Like	#32
JeffB Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: 'Merica! Posts: 209	It is true that basic lens formulas for some focal lengths have remained unchanged for 100+ years. But there are major differences in modern designs optimized for digital sensors. The most important is that many (especially wide angles) are designed to project parallel light beams from the rear element onto the sensor focal plane. Old film era glass projected diverging light rays that hit the edges of the film at often shallow angles. Film didn't care. Sensors do care and this contributes to extreme fringing and exposure falloff at the edges when using older wide lenses on digital sensors. Ironically, smaller APS size sensors effectively mask this effect by cropping off the most affected portion of the image. But when people start putting old film era glass on "full frame" digital sensors the effect becomes painfully obvious. Look at the lengths Leica went to dealing with this. They customized their sensors so edge pixels are optimized to accept light falling on them at an angle.

05-09-2015, 03:19 PM	#33
clackers Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Melbourne Photos: Albums Posts: 16,397	Originally posted by JeffB Ironically, smaller APS size sensors effectively mask this effect by cropping off the most affected portion of the image. But when people start putting old film era glass on "full frame" digital sensors the effect becomes painfully obvious. . Well, if you're in this forum, Jeff, you're using Pentax bodies and "effectively" masking this as you say. You're getting the best out of film lenses - cheap or expensive - with the APS-C format. Even for the future full frame, why don't you look at the FF Lenses on Digital thread, for many, many beautiful shots our members have taken with old lenses. I use an A7 myself and have no problems with the glass I own. The effect you're talking about applies chiefly to very wide specimens. Leica in particular have a problem in that they have rangefinder lenses in their history.

05-09-2015, 08:03 PM	#34
jimr-pdx Pentaxian Join Date: May 2010 Location: now 1 hour north of PDX Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,897	Good topic and story! I generally stick to old primes & new zooms. Since SR cannot auto-adjust to an old zoom (and Pentax did not choose to add FL input as a button choice) I prefer primes to maximize both IQ and SR accuracy. I am getting a split-screen focus to maximize focus next; hope the $30 auction knockoff will serve on my K-r I am really surprised at recent deals I am seeing here and at eBay. Film lenses that I have used on/off for years is cheaper now, right before the 36×24 camera arrives. Curious!

05-09-2015, 10:13 PM	#35
Auzzie-Phoenix Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Photos: Albums Posts: 1,020 Original Poster	I think I might just invest in the 6x7 and 645 lens mount adapters. Huge glass, but I've heard it works great for image clarity/sharpness on old primes.

05-09-2015, 11:26 PM	#36
From1980 Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Essex, Ontario Posts: 682	Originally posted by Auzzie-Phoenix I think I might just invest in the 6x7 and 645 lens mount adapters. Huge glass, but I've heard it works great for image clarity/sharpness on old primes. And an investment it will be! For the expense acquiring those adapters you could buy several old glass gems instead. The adapter usually goes in the $200 range and that would pretty well defeat the purpose of trying do things cheaper which I am all for. I have the 645 adapter but also most of the 645 system and A lenses so the adapter allows me to use those on 35mm and APSC cameras too. It`s not usually a good idea to get the larger format lenses only for use on the smaller formats. You could be disappointed. Central sharpness is great on most of them but they were designed to make an image subjected to less enlargement than 35mm and especially DSLRs. Later, the best thing about finding those deals on old, overlooked lenses will be having them for coming full-frame.

05-10-2015, 07:18 PM	#37
Auzzie-Phoenix Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Photos: Albums Posts: 1,020 Original Poster	Hmmm... didn't know they cost that much. Well... no cheapie ebay 67/645 glass for me.

05-10-2015, 09:11 PM	#38
From1980 Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Essex, Ontario Posts: 682	There are cheaper alternatives to the genuine Pentax mount adapters such as Fotodiox and others but many have posted here on the PF and other places that these are an unreliable fit and can cause problems.

05-11-2015, 12:46 AM	#39
Dartmoor Dave Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Dartmoor, UK Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,882	The best bargain primes will always be Takumars and K mounts in the 28mm/35mm/50mm range simply because there are so many of them around. It was inevitable that prices would go up for the rarer legacy ultra-wides and long telephotos once the ff camera was announced, simply because of supply and demand.

05-11-2015, 12:35 PM	#41
clackers Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Melbourne Photos: Albums Posts: 16,397	Originally posted by Multi-coated +1 Pentax forum members for pointing out solid deals. Last I heard the kid and her K-50 are inseparable. The little girl's father, a Canikon fundamentalist initially less than thrilled with his offspring's heresy, is now questioning his faith. :-) Nice story, MC. Starting to show interest in boys, fashion and Pentax, this girl's father must think she's now outta control.

05-11-2015, 05:04 PM	#42
Multi-coated Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Photos: Albums Posts: 95	Originally posted by clackers Nice story, MC. Starting to show interest in boys, fashion and Pentax, this girl's father must think she's now outta control. That's pretty much the situation. I hope he is able to overcome the Pentax issue. :-)

05-11-2015, 05:18 PM	#43
c.a.m Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Ottawa, Canada Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,189	Originally posted by Multi-coated That's pretty much the situation. I hope he is able to overcome the Pentax issue. :-) Just wait until she starts hinting for the FA Limiteds...

05-11-2015, 05:49 PM	#44
Multi-coated Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Photos: Albums Posts: 95	Originally posted by c.a.m Just wait until she starts hinting for the FA Limiteds... The dad is a nice guy despite being a Canikonista. Should he ever get under my skin.... His wife, daughter and I will have a Limited discussion. :-)

05-11-2015, 06:13 PM	#45
From1980 Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Essex, Ontario Posts: 682	Hope this girl grows up to be thankful she was blessed with deliverance from the false doctrines of Canikonism.