Adorama fail

Helen Oster · 07-31-2015, 04:39 AM

Thank you, Ern, for updating the forum on the outcome.

So I checked on the KEH website - possibly the largest seller of used photo gear in the US (but not new gear). From what I can see, their listings are similar to Adorama's, in that there is a standard explanation applicable to all units when opening the 'gradings' window, as follows:

"Accessories Included: New and Like New as packaged by manufacturer. Instructions, caps, straps and cases sold separately unless specified. We attempt to include eyecups, eyepieces and any port covers but due to limited availability, these items are not guaranteed, may need to be purchased separately and will not be listed in the description of the item".

All that being said, I messaged the Used Department Manager, the Head of Sales and the Ops. Manager to ask about the feasibility of each used item having a more detailed description to highlight exactly what is included.
The main problem I can see is that with around 27,000 used items in the warehouse right now, it's going to be time-consuming and therefore costly to implement. Those costs will inevitably be passed on to the consumer.

stormtech · 07-31-2015, 05:25 AM - **3 Likes**

I was going to mention KEH here as I have used them a lot over the years. One thing that I have learned with their descriptions - if it is not listed in the ad it is not included - period.

Easy enough to understand - you just have to take a few seconds, read the description, and figure out for yourself what is not included by reading the description of what is included.

Adorama's and B&H's used departments seem to follow this way of listing used items.

It kind of bothers me that people post on a public forum about a problem with a vendor before contacting the vendor first and giving them a chance to make it right.

**csa** · 07-31-2015, 06:55 AM - **1 Like**

One thing I've found with Adorama & B&H; if you have any doubts whatsoever about a product they have, call them or if outside the US, e-mail them. I think we are very fortunate to have both companies as members here, that go way beyond expectations to keep their customers happy!

Kudos to Helen, she definitely went the extra mile to keep a customer happy!

It is unfortunate to have a thread titled "Adorama fail"; before attempting to correct the situation. Perhaps a title such as "Adorama, need help", etc., would have been more suitable. Someone just reading the title would have the impression that Adorama was the bad guy in a transaction.

drypenn · 07-31-2015, 07:27 AM - **1 Like**

I agree with the comments. Mistakes do happen, either on the side of the buyer or the seller. At the very least, us, buyers, should attempt to exhaust all means to resolve the problem before putting them "on the spot". If they have ignored or have been unreasonable, then that should be the only moment when we can "shame" them as failure.

May I also suggest, with the OP's consent to change the unreasonably harsh thread title.

Last edited by drypenn; 07-31-2015 at 09:31 AM.

**paulh** · 07-31-2015, 07:30 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by stormtech

t kind of bothers me that people post on a public forum about a problem with a vendor before contacting the vendor first and giving them a chance to make it right.

Originally posted by csa

It is unfortunate to have a thread titled "Adorama fail"; before attempting to correct the situation.

Agree with these thoughts.

**UncleVanya** · 07-31-2015, 07:53 AM

My understanding is that the op started by talking to Adorama in emails and got nowhere. Helen's intervention here resolved this to his satisfaction. I agree title might be better as "adorama - fail - resolved".

Helen Oster · 07-31-2015, 08:02 AM - **5 Likes**

Originally posted by UncleVanya

My understanding is that the op started by talking to Adorama in emails and got nowhere. Helen's intervention here resolved this to his satisfaction. I agree title might be better as "adorama - fail - resolved".

To clarify; we did go above and beyond. The OP 'got nowhere' because he wanted us to a) include items that were not listed in the sale, b) he wanted them shipped directly to Australia, rather than to the original shipping address within the US.

We went out of our way to accommodate him, because of our special relationship with Adam. However, we can't do this as a matter of course for everyone who requests it. Otherwise we'd need to run at a loss, or increase our prices.

**UncleVanya** · 07-31-2015, 09:02 AM

Originally posted by Helen Oster

To clarify; we did go above and beyond. The OP 'got nowhere' because he wanted us to a) include items that were not listed in the sale, b) he wanted them shipped directly to Australia, rather than to the original shipping address within the US.

We went out of our way to accommodate him, because of our special relationship with Adam. However, we can't do this as a matter of course for everyone who requests it. Otherwise we'd need to run at a loss, or increase our prices.

Sorry Helen - I agree and I didn't mean to imply otherwise. But for people saying that he should have contacted your company first I felt it was important to note that he did. It was an unfortunate situation that you handled with grace and tact. Thanks for the help you offer members here.

BTW - on an unrelated note your bag deals are killing me. I already bought one and I'm thinking about two more. Please help me - don't post any more bag deals here for at least a few days! LOL

**csa** · 07-31-2015, 10:44 AM

Originally posted by UncleVanya

BTW - on an unrelated note your bag deals are killing me. I already bought one and I'm thinking about two more. Please help me - don't post any more bag deals here for at least a few days! LOL

Yep, I had to order one also!

Sigmund · 07-31-2015, 04:06 PM

First, I've said all along that what was included in the sale wasn't clear. The hood and case are standard inclusions, not accessories, with a new purchase. So it behooves a retailer, IMO, to make clear what's in and what's out and I remain of the view that the Adorama policy statement is not readily accessible. If it had been clear, I would've confirmed what came with this 2nd hand purchase, done the numbers on adding a case and hood, and not gone ahead with the purchase.

Let me provide an analogy. If you were in serious negotiations over buying a 2nd hand car made as a 7 seater, and the seller did not make clear 'til late that this version had had the 3rd row of seats removed, you would surely be surprised when you found out, wouldn't you?

Second, Helen, (b) in your post is incorrect. I never asked for anything to be posted to Australia. The original purchase I directed to my trans-shipping agent in the US. When Jorge agreed to provide the case and hood he offered either to send it there or to my home address in Australia.

Helen Oster · 08-01-2015, 01:57 PM

Hi again Ern

I've passed on to the web team your feedback that you feel the details on the website regarding the inclusions are unclear.

Regarding the shipping; I did not mean to imply that you insisted upon us shipping directly to Australia. I advised Jorge and the used department manager of your comments in post #12, and, as I noted above, we made the decision to go beyond our usual policy because of our relationship with PF and Adam.

mee · 08-01-2015, 07:53 PM - **1 Like**

When it comes to used items you ALWAYS ask if it comes with the hood. it is NOT a standard inclusion on a USED item.

ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS get it in writing with what the item is shipping. Never assume in business. Especially when you're in another country altogether and are attempting to make a system work that wasn't designed to work in that manner.

Quite frankly, I'm surprised Helen Oster and Adorama went as far as to satisfy your complaints as they did. And anyone reading this should NOT expect the same treatment if they decide to throw their weight around on the forums. Again, this could have easily been resolved by contacting Adorama before buying. If they don't respond, walk away!! no, run... run fast!! and that applies to any used merchandise sold online.

Sigmund · 08-01-2015, 08:11 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Helen Oster

Hi again Ern

I've passed on to the web team your feedback that you feel the details on the website regarding the inclusions are unclear.

Regarding the shipping; I did not mean to imply that you insisted upon us shipping directly to Australia. I advised Jorge and the used department manager of your comments in post #12, and, as I noted above, we made the decision to go beyond our usual policy because of our relationship with PF and Adam.

I very much appreciate your meeting my expectations and have of course revised my assumptions about inclusions.

Tapenx Worth 2 · 08-02-2015, 04:25 AM

That Adorama shave off the accessories to then sell separately.

Tom S. · 08-02-2015, 05:43 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Tapenx Worth 2

That Adorama shave off the accessories to then sell separately.

I have never experienced this from Adorama or B&H, which is why they are both recommended vendors.

08-02-2015, 04:25 AM	#29
Tapenx Worth 2 New Member Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 15	What I hope this doesn't mean... That Adorama shave off the accessories to then sell separately.

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07-31-2015, 04:39 AM	#16
Helen Oster Adorama Camera Representative Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: New York Posts: 550	Thank you, Ern, for updating the forum on the outcome. So I checked on the KEH website - possibly the largest seller of used photo gear in the US (but not new gear). From what I can see, their listings are similar to Adorama's, in that there is a standard explanation applicable to all units when opening the 'gradings' window, as follows: "Accessories Included: New and Like New as packaged by manufacturer. Instructions, caps, straps and cases sold separately unless specified. We attempt to include eyecups, eyepieces and any port covers but due to limited availability, these items are not guaranteed, may need to be purchased separately and will not be listed in the description of the item". All that being said, I messaged the Used Department Manager, the Head of Sales and the Ops. Manager to ask about the feasibility of each used item having a more detailed description to highlight exactly what is included. The main problem I can see is that with around 27,000 used items in the warehouse right now, it's going to be time-consuming and therefore costly to implement. Those costs will inevitably be passed on to the consumer.

07-31-2015, 05:25 AM - 3 Likes	#17
stormtech Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: In the boonies (NW Penna) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 5,744	I was going to mention KEH here as I have used them a lot over the years. One thing that I have learned with their descriptions - if it is not listed in the ad it is not included - period. Easy enough to understand - you just have to take a few seconds, read the description, and figure out for yourself what is not included by reading the description of what is included. Adorama's and B&H's used departments seem to follow this way of listing used items. It kind of bothers me that people post on a public forum about a problem with a vendor before contacting the vendor first and giving them a chance to make it right.

07-31-2015, 06:55 AM - 1 Like	#18
csa Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Montana mountains Posts: 10,133	One thing I've found with Adorama & B&H; if you have any doubts whatsoever about a product they have, call them or if outside the US, e-mail them. I think we are very fortunate to have both companies as members here, that go way beyond expectations to keep their customers happy! Kudos to Helen, she definitely went the extra mile to keep a customer happy! It is unfortunate to have a thread titled "Adorama fail"; before attempting to correct the situation. Perhaps a title such as "Adorama, need help", etc., would have been more suitable. Someone just reading the title would have the impression that Adorama was the bad guy in a transaction.

07-31-2015, 07:27 AM - 1 Like	#19
drypenn Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Photos: Albums Posts: 963	I agree with the comments. Mistakes do happen, either on the side of the buyer or the seller. At the very least, us, buyers, should attempt to exhaust all means to resolve the problem before putting them "on the spot". If they have ignored or have been unreasonable, then that should be the only moment when we can "shame" them as failure. May I also suggest, with the OP's consent to change the unreasonably harsh thread title. Last edited by drypenn; 07-31-2015 at 09:31 AM.

07-31-2015, 07:30 AM - 1 Like	#20
paulh Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: DFW Texas/Ventura County, CA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 33,258	Originally posted by stormtech t kind of bothers me that people post on a public forum about a problem with a vendor before contacting the vendor first and giving them a chance to make it right. Originally posted by csa It is unfortunate to have a thread titled "Adorama fail"; before attempting to correct the situation. Agree with these thoughts.

07-31-2015, 07:53 AM	#21
UncleVanya Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2014 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 28,398	My understanding is that the op started by talking to Adorama in emails and got nowhere. Helen's intervention here resolved this to his satisfaction. I agree title might be better as "adorama - fail - resolved".

07-31-2015, 08:02 AM - 5 Likes	#22
Helen Oster Adorama Camera Representative Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: New York Posts: 550	Originally posted by UncleVanya My understanding is that the op started by talking to Adorama in emails and got nowhere. Helen's intervention here resolved this to his satisfaction. I agree title might be better as "adorama - fail - resolved". To clarify; we did go above and beyond. The OP 'got nowhere' because he wanted us to a) include items that were not listed in the sale, b) he wanted them shipped directly to Australia, rather than to the original shipping address within the US. We went out of our way to accommodate him, because of our special relationship with Adam. However, we can't do this as a matter of course for everyone who requests it. Otherwise we'd need to run at a loss, or increase our prices.

07-31-2015, 09:02 AM	#23
UncleVanya Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2014 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 28,398	Originally posted by Helen Oster To clarify; we did go above and beyond. The OP 'got nowhere' because he wanted us to a) include items that were not listed in the sale, b) he wanted them shipped directly to Australia, rather than to the original shipping address within the US. We went out of our way to accommodate him, because of our special relationship with Adam. However, we can't do this as a matter of course for everyone who requests it. Otherwise we'd need to run at a loss, or increase our prices. Sorry Helen - I agree and I didn't mean to imply otherwise. But for people saying that he should have contacted your company first I felt it was important to note that he did. It was an unfortunate situation that you handled with grace and tact. Thanks for the help you offer members here. BTW - on an unrelated note your bag deals are killing me. I already bought one and I'm thinking about two more. Please help me - don't post any more bag deals here for at least a few days! LOL

07-31-2015, 10:44 AM	#24
csa Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Montana mountains Posts: 10,133	Originally posted by UncleVanya BTW - on an unrelated note your bag deals are killing me. I already bought one and I'm thinking about two more. Please help me - don't post any more bag deals here for at least a few days! LOL Yep, I had to order one also!

07-31-2015, 04:06 PM	#25
Sigmund Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 142 Original Poster	First, I've said all along that what was included in the sale wasn't clear. The hood and case are standard inclusions, not accessories, with a new purchase. So it behooves a retailer, IMO, to make clear what's in and what's out and I remain of the view that the Adorama policy statement is not readily accessible. If it had been clear, I would've confirmed what came with this 2nd hand purchase, done the numbers on adding a case and hood, and not gone ahead with the purchase. Let me provide an analogy. If you were in serious negotiations over buying a 2nd hand car made as a 7 seater, and the seller did not make clear 'til late that this version had had the 3rd row of seats removed, you would surely be surprised when you found out, wouldn't you? Second, Helen, (b) in your post is incorrect. I never asked for anything to be posted to Australia. The original purchase I directed to my trans-shipping agent in the US. When Jorge agreed to provide the case and hood he offered either to send it there or to my home address in Australia.

08-01-2015, 01:57 PM	#26
Helen Oster Adorama Camera Representative Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: New York Posts: 550	Hi again Ern I've passed on to the web team your feedback that you feel the details on the website regarding the inclusions are unclear. Regarding the shipping; I did not mean to imply that you insisted upon us shipping directly to Australia. I advised Jorge and the used department manager of your comments in post #12, and, as I noted above, we made the decision to go beyond our usual policy because of our relationship with PF and Adam.

08-01-2015, 07:53 PM - 1 Like	#27
mee Veteran Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 7,403	When it comes to used items you ALWAYS ask if it comes with the hood. it is NOT a standard inclusion on a USED item. ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS get it in writing with what the item is shipping. Never assume in business. Especially when you're in another country altogether and are attempting to make a system work that wasn't designed to work in that manner. Quite frankly, I'm surprised Helen Oster and Adorama went as far as to satisfy your complaints as they did. And anyone reading this should NOT expect the same treatment if they decide to throw their weight around on the forums. Again, this could have easily been resolved by contacting Adorama before buying. If they don't respond, walk away!! no, run... run fast!! and that applies to any used merchandise sold online.

08-01-2015, 08:11 PM - 1 Like	#28
Sigmund Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 142 Original Poster	Originally posted by Helen Oster Hi again Ern I've passed on to the web team your feedback that you feel the details on the website regarding the inclusions are unclear. Regarding the shipping; I did not mean to imply that you insisted upon us shipping directly to Australia. I advised Jorge and the used department manager of your comments in post #12, and, as I noted above, we made the decision to go beyond our usual policy because of our relationship with PF and Adam. I very much appreciate your meeting my expectations and have of course revised my assumptions about inclusions.

08-02-2015, 05:43 AM - 1 Like	#30
Tom S. Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: S.E. Michigan Photos: Albums Posts: 4,317	Originally posted by Tapenx Worth 2 That Adorama shave off the accessories to then sell separately. I have never experienced this from Adorama or B&H, which is why they are both recommended vendors.

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