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09-24-2015, 10:04 AM   #1
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The latest internet victim-shaming is directed against a British photographer

A US animal rights group PETA is suing a photographer to get his rights to a photograph he took remove. If successful, it could have a wide impact on all of us.

read the whole story here:

PETA monkey selfie lawsuit threatens wildlife photography, warns snapper at heart of row ? The Register

09-24-2015, 01:00 PM   #2
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A bunch of SJW nutters with nothing better to do than find something to cause trouble about.
Think it through - if remotely captured images don't belong to the photographer, then neither do most of NASAs or all security camera/CCTV imagery and drone photography.
It's just a crazy ass claim.

Last edited by Steve.Ledger; 09-24-2015 at 01:26 PM.
09-24-2015, 01:44 PM   #3
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By PETA's logic, if you use a lightning trigger to take a photo of lightning, the photo belongs to the lightning.
09-24-2015, 01:48 PM   #4
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I think this is old news...I believe PETA lost this case...not sure why this is being reported as current news?

Maybe another go around?

09-24-2015, 02:03 PM   #5
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It's a new development..
"Sept 22nd 2015: Wildlife Charity PETA suing me in California for copyright infringement of my own monkey images in my own book "Wildlife Personalities". "
See David's 23rd Sept post ► https://www.facebook.com/DavidJSlater

---------- Post added 09-25-15 at 07:05 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by mechmike10 Quote
By PETA's logic, if you use a lightning trigger to take a photo of lightning, the photo belongs to the lightning.
Or any means other than your own finger (or other body part).
I suppose we could go further and say that Pentax own all our photographs.
09-24-2015, 02:14 PM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by Steve.Ledger Quote
A bunch of SJW nutters with nothing better to do than find something to cause trouble about.

Think it through - if remotely captured images don't belong to the photographer, then neither do most of NASAs or all security camera/CCTV imagery.
It's just a crazy claim.
yes, but a very expensive crazy claim. Quote from article, "(Last year he said the campaign had already cost him £10,000 in lost income.) ", That does not Include the legal fees that he may incur. And the fact that he is a known animal-rights activists himself, and that he has worked with the organization in the past, made little difference.

in my opinion, regardless of the outcome, The group has lost at least two supporters. The photographer in question, and me. It is one thing to go after someone who's killing endangered species for fun or profit, or industries that are polluting the land, water and air. That I agree with. It is a different story When you go after people who are trying to preserve nature through pictures. taking pictures remotely, does little to disturb nature. It is also the best way for scientists to gather data on animals without disturbing their habits. you are also jeopardizing a vital industry. Some countries have a choice, use up their surviving resources in order to survive, or utilize a vital resource that is nature. Creating a natural tourist attraction. Allowing photographers to come in and take pictures of nature at its best. If you attack that industry you leave these countries with little choice. They need an income. And it's better to provide an income by preserving nature, There's an old saying, you don't bite the hand that feeds you. and that's exactly what they're doing.
09-24-2015, 03:28 PM - 1 Like   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by Steve.Ledger Quote
A bunch of SJW nutters with nothing better to do than find something to cause trouble about.
Think it through - if remotely captured images don't belong to the photographer, then neither do most of NASAs or all security camera/CCTV imagery and drone photography.
It's just a crazy ass claim.
Basically, PETA is arguing that a monkey is a person and can own a copyright. This case should be dismissed until the monkey can file papers on his own behalf. You cannot sue someone on someone else's behalf unless you have power of attorney--or is PETA claiming that for all animals too? I have a friend whose cat might not want that. She might like a different firm to represent her.
09-24-2015, 03:56 PM - 1 Like   #8
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"The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation."
If animals have property rights, then they have a right to life, in which case those of us who eat chicken and fish should be arrested for murder.

09-24-2015, 04:15 PM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by dcshooter Quote
In the U.S. they don't. In fact, under U.S. Law, they typically are property.
Yes, that follows from my point; animals don't have rights. This quote helps explain why: A right is a " link between the moral code of a man and the legal code of a society, between ethics and politics. Individual rights are the means of subordinating society to moral law."
Animals have no concept of moral law; one cannot come to an agreement with them that they understand. (It is up to us to create the terms of our interactions with animals. The more civilized we are, the more considerate we are in our treatment of animals.) However, as long as we eat them, it rings hollow to grant them property rights.
09-24-2015, 04:36 PM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by LaurenOE Quote
I think this is old news...I believe PETA lost this case...not sure why this is being reported as current news?

Maybe another go around?
Yep, they just filed this one this week. Apparently Slater self-published a book, including some of the uncopyrightable/public domain photos and PETA wants the proceeds to go to a fund to benefit the macaque and his community - administered by PETA, of course.

I'm torn whether this is primarily an attempt to establish precedent for animals as plaintiffs, a somewhat crooked attempt to fund preservation efforts (they could have published their own book, since the photos are public domain, or financed another shoot, since the macaque clearly is a popular subject and willing artist), or a "there's no such thing as bad publicity" campaign.
09-24-2015, 04:37 PM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by mechmike10 Quote
PETA's logic
Those two words in the same sentence?


Steve
09-24-2015, 04:40 PM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by THoog Quote
an attempt to establish precedent for animals as plaintiffs
Yes

QuoteOriginally posted by THoog Quote
a somewhat crooked attempt to fund preservation efforts
Yes

QuoteOriginally posted by THoog Quote
a "there's no such thing as bad publicity" campaign
and Yes


Steve
09-24-2015, 04:43 PM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
Yes
Yes
and Yes

Steve
I also had "or just harrassment of Slater", but I figured that one was obvious. The sad thing is he has worked on projects with PETA before. There's no worse enemy than an old friend.
09-24-2015, 05:59 PM   #14
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This reminds me of the National Enquirer staff admitting that they sat down in a room with aa case of beer and sat there reading newspaper articles that they could make up weird twists about. I can see the PETSA people sitting there thinking , "what is the wildest way we could do some fundraising that would just keep giving.?" Picking a photographer as their target, I'm surprised at the low regard photographers are held in everywhere. The world is full of ingrates.
09-24-2015, 06:15 PM   #15
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Unfortunately, even as PETA loses this case, they win with any attention.
They get upset with old Dutch named streams by me - they are all names ending in 'kill'. Catskill seems to trouble them deeply. I don't feel a need for violence towards felines when I'm near there, or hear the name. I don't get it.

Hopefully, the photographer in question can recover his lost income from them.

Are the monkeys able to sign a model's release ?
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