[kjphilippona]

I am sure that I am not the first and wont be the last that has this problem. I love to shoot mostly indoor using only existing light and not use a flash. The flash just takes away all the warmth and adds harshness to my pictures, not only causing my subjects to close their eyes or turn away. I purchase a very nice flash that can be adjusted to bounce the flash but has a very steep learning curve and I have had no luck using. My K50 & K30 both are just not giving me what I want shooting indoors. Outdoors in bright sunlight with the army of lenses I now own, they do ok. I am thinking of selling everything and trying another brand that is capable of taking indoor pictures without all the ISO noise loosing the sharp detail. My problem is I now own 20 lenses and 3 cameras for Pentax and have no idea what brand to purchase

[bigdavephoto]

From what I understand, and I could be wrong, no matter what brand of camera you use, you will have problems with indoor photos without a flash.


What you need to do is find the sweet spot between too much noise and too slow a shutter when not using a flash.


When using a flash, practice a lot and when you think you have it down pat, practice some more.


I have found out shooting in RAW, I have more control over noise when shooting a high ISO (6400) with my K7. If you are not shooting RAW, you might try it out before changing brands.

[BrianR]

Any examples of your flashed pictures you could post?

Which flash are you using?

Are you bouncing? Straight up? To the side? Behind?

Using the flash as a fill light or as your main light source? Or otherwise controlling the balance with the ambient light?

Using gels to match the flash colour with the ambient (ex: http://strobist.blogspot.ca/2006/03/lighting-101-using-gels-to-correct.html)? Letting the cameras white balance do it's own thing or taking control?

What fast lenses do you have for ambient only? The sensors in the k50 and k30 are pretty top notch for high iso, especially in the price range of these cameras. What ISO's are giving you trouble? What kind of post processing are you using to deal with the noise?

Moving to a different brand will do little to help, refining your technique will help you get the most out of your current gear and anything you switch to if that's what you end up doing.

[CarlJF]

From what I understand, and I could be wrong, no matter what brand of camera you use, you will have problems with indoor photos without a flash.

+1

The flash just takes away all the warmth and adds harshness to my pictures, not only causing my subjects to close their eyes or turn away. I purchase a very nice flash that can be adjusted to bounce the flash...

Bounce flash is better than straight in the eyes, but certainly not the end of it. Have you try off camera flash ? Light modifiers (soft box, umbrella...) ? Have you played with flash compensation ? Many people have very good, natural results, with flash. It's just a matter of leaning to use it. Just look at the pictures on thisNeil van Niekerk website. They're all done with a single flash and certainly does look as natural as the one without flash...

You should get a good read at Strobist website. Everything you need to know, and even a it more, is there.

Learning how to use your actual flash will get you much better picture than just switching to another brand or type of camera.

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Last edited by CarlJF; 10-25-2015 at 09:10 AM. Reason: Link corrected

[Rupert]

A FF camera might help on the noise, but at a price. There are a few shooters that have mastered flash and get great results......maybe a little more research in that area would be worthwhile? My own experience has been that most use too much flash power for indoor shots and it results in that "flash look". Adjust setting in the camera and the flash to mimic daylight conditions.

Regards!

[steveeboy]

you should be able to figure out the flash. Bounce off the ceiling and use the front secondary reflector-if so equipped at a lower power setting 1/4 or 1/2 power to give eye highlight.

Off a white ceiling, this is pretty much a no brainer for nice Christmas photos, family stuff, etc.

So, to be blunt, the problem is with your technique, NOT the camera and/or flash.

Check the strobist site as noted above for ideas, or, probably even better, post your make/model flash here and I am sure someone can give you basic settings to dial it in better.

But these new cameras and any decent flash-hell even a legacy flash like af280t with bounce/tilt will be able to get great flash stuff indoors just using the auto and fill settings.

[CarlJF]

Letting the cameras white balance do it's own thing or taking control?

Agree. Auto WB with flashes often tend to be on the cold site. If you shoot in RAW, this is easily corrected PP.

[kjphilippona]

Sorry all my attempts to use the flash did not turn out well so I gave up and deleted the all

Metz AF-1

I tried all four, but shooting a child was to difficult for me to continue making changes to the flash position.

Both

Auto white balance

FA31 f1.8, HD DA35 macro f2.8, DA50 f1.8, DA*55 f1.4, DA*16-50 f2.8, DA35 f2.4. Lightroom 5, but do not use it much, I don't have the eye to get my pictures looking good

[BrianR]

Sorry all my attempts to use the flash did not turn out well so I gave up and deleted the all

Metz AF-1

I tried all four, but shooting a child was to difficult for me to continue making changes to the flash position.

Both

Auto white balance

FA31 f1.8, HD DA35 macro f2.8, DA50 f1.8, DA*55 f1.4, DA*16-50 f2.8, DA35 f2.4. Lightroom 5, but do not use it much, I don't have the eye to get my pictures looking good

A moving child is not a great practice subject! Find an older person willing to sit still while you practice, or use yourself (and a tripod), or find a mannequin or doll or other object to stand-in. Something where you can do some controlled tests you try bouncing different ways and off different surfaces to see the effect so you can make more intelligent decisions when shooting fast.

With an auto flash like yours, you should be able to dial in relative exposure of the ambient to flash for very different effects. Someone with your model can chime in with more specifics on how to control this. Again, practice to see how the different ratios of flash to ambient will look.

As mentioned, auto-WB with flash is often distasteful. This goes triple for situations with mixed lighting temperatures. Learn to use gels, especially indoors (they're pretty cheap and ever so versatile) when mixing lighting and I'd suggest you try manually setting your cameras WB in any case.

You have some of the most capable low light lenses, and capable noise reduction software. Practice. Practice. Practice. Post results for feedback. Practice more. Repeat.

[CarlJF]

Metz AF-1

Is it one the Metz that support wireless P-TTL ? If so, you can start experimenting by setting your onboard flash in controller mode and use the Metz off camera. This will have a most dramatic effect on your pictures! Much more than changing the camera or your whole system.

For practising, kids are not the easiest subject. The good old fruit bowl, flower pot or doll are still what work best for practising. Put your flash off camera and look at what you get...

[jatrax]

I am thinking of selling everything and trying another brand that is capable of taking indoor pictures without all the ISO noise loosing the sharp detail.

To be blunt it is the photographer not the gear. Changing to another brand at any reasonable price is not going to change anything. You could move to Nikon similar models but wait they use the same sensor as Pentax. You could move to Canon, but wait their sensors are not as good as Pentax/Nikon. Sony? Panasonic? Fuji? You might find a model or brand that is somewhat better at what you want to do, but you will still need to learn to how to use it and use flash. No appreciable gain IMHO.

You could move up to a newer model, like the k-3 or D7200 and you would see a marginal difference. You could move up to something like the D810 and see some difference, but at what cost? And you will still need flash in many cases.

No, the answer is to learn to use the gear you have. Using flash properly is not easy, but it is not impossible either. It takes study, and practice but really it is the only way to do what you want.

Try reading these:
On-Camera Flash by Neil van Niekerk
Off-Camera FLash by Neil van Niekerk
Understanding Flash Photography by Bryan Peterson

Lightroom 5, but do not use it much, I don't have the eye to get my pictures looking good

And you need to learn Lightroom. Shoot in RAW and develop in Lightroom. Easy? No. Very much no. But part of being a photographer.

If you want to change brands that is up to you but honestly there is not any significant difference between the brands at this point. Some better, some worse, but nothing better enough that it is "capable of taking indoor pictures without all the ISO noise loosing the sharp detail". That is physics, not camera brand.

[gfurm]

Simplest way to solve your indoor flash problem: LumiQuest 80-20 - LumiQuest

Flash head up, P-TTL (not sure about it working well on K30/K50 but on K3 works great).

I made one out of white cardboard, works a treat. Difference between straight on, bounced from ceiling and using this is amazing.

Greg

[mike.hiran]

I completely agree with jatrax on this.

I used to be the same where I didn't want to use flash, and in some cases I'm still that way. But I'm beginning to realize that sometimes I need flash for the pics to turn out a certain way. If I'm shooting at ISO6400, there's going to be degradation in the image quality and that's true with just about every camera out there except for maybe the 645z and other high end cameras that are out of my price range.

The thing that has helped me the most is using off camera bounced flash and changing flash power on the fly depending on where my subject is in the room by using a cactus v6 to remotely change the power coming out of the flash.

[kjphilippona]

Thank you everyone for the input and advice, I will do some research and practice

[micromacro]

Thank you everyone for the input and advice, I will do some research and practice

You do have everything to improve your skills. Perhaps it's time to stop running with any new gear, and start picking up from the very beginning, from user manuals.
Take one lens, one camera body and flash, and focus on the result. And ask questions here, any stupid questions. It's not easy to get into using your gear, it does take time.

Looking at what you have (some very good glass! ) I can assume it's time to start knowing what you have before switching to another system spending more money and time to get used into different brand.
Lightroom is a pain in the beginning, it does need time and efforts.
You have been shooting less than one year. With your extensive gear and not much time to practice it's nothing. Just start all over, and later you will be amazed how far you can go.