[JibbaJab]

Videography should be taken from the back of the church or venue by Uncle Louie with his $300 Canon camcorder. The photographer should have full reign of the ceremony and reception. Problem solved.

That's a rather unfair dismissal of an entire art form.

[osv]

What a dumb idea. Yea...let's have a 20 minute meeting to discuss who get's to shoot where and at what focal length. By the time your little committee makes a decision the party's over pal.

i can see that you've never worked a pro job before, lol

because having a conversation with all of the shooters before the ceremony is exactly how it's done.

[Ex Finn.]

Oh boy!

[sergysergy]

clowns...

[bertwert]

Sorry to hear your experience.
Hopefully the bride gets all the nice photos she wanted from you

osv, I'm not sure you're getting the point of this post, maye read it again?

[Digitalis]

One of the marks of professionalism is being able to get the job done no matter what obstacles you have to deal with - and in that regard you did well. I don't do weddings myself, I never will. I'm accustomed to working in the studio, where I have full command of the studio space and what happens in it. I have had difficulties in the past - thankfully the studio heads back me up, even to the point of kicking an art director out of the building*.

it amazes me ones pride can be of such an importance

Of all the motivations to action, wounded pride is one of the most dangerous: not just to the victim, but also the attacker. However in your instance you refused to be victimized, which reflects well on you. The fact that you did your job well and produced good images from the event under difficult circumstances means that no amount of bad mouthing will tarnish your reputation.


*this particular art director was making rude remarks about the models - right in front of them, I gave him a warning...but he kept going. So I spoke to the studio director, and relayed some of his comments to her, she was furious: in the end she all but threw him out the back door without any apology. After that incident I haven't heard from him again.

[honey bo bo]

what part of "I can't pay too much attention to where the video guys are.."

The other folks were told to respect how I work and to avoid getting in my way.

The priority of the Payer (the Bride and the Groom et all) chose the candid portion of their wedding Package as the priority; the video portion secondary. If the video guys cant understand Danish or what ever then the candid guy has to exercise his mandate. Candid shots are instantanously shot in most cases and have no latitude for discussion. The Payer made the right joice as well without carte blanche the candid guy may as well go home.
i think the video guys have trouble with Danish and osv with English

---

Last edited by honey bo bo; 12-26-2015 at 07:34 PM. Reason: word left out

[Murfy]

Please don't feed the troll, people. He's here to attack, not to engage

no worries, for a minute I thought I lost my reading comprehension or maybe there was a post that was mistakenly placed in the wrong forum. I am glad to see it was, at least, not a reading comprehension issue.

Zafar, I think you handled to situation as best you could, I dont know what else you could have done other draw up something in a contract that explicity lays out what you will do and what will happen if you get resistance from other hired photographers or videographers. I didn't have videographers at my wedding, so 4 sounds like a lot to have to work around.

[Rupert]

I'm an old guy...but I can still bust people in the mouth and make it count.....and in your case that's what I would have done after the second request for them to get lost.

Regards!

[Zafar Iqbal]

Thanks for being supportive.

Having reflected some more on yesterdays experiences, there is no doubt in my mind, that they were offended by my presence alone and wouldn't "have any of that" and I bet, same would have happened if any other photographer was hired instead of me, unless that photographer would back the way way off. After all, they were 4, capable of covering both video and photo, so why would anyone need anyone else besides them? They were also all over the place regarding photography, which they weren't even supposed to do.

If anything, they obstructed me from doing my work - for example, they had this thing with sticking the cameras right in front of dancing couples faces - dancing couples being guests, families etc - and then keep the camera there till the couples stop and stare at the camera with that expressionless mute look on their faces. Click, shot taken, move on to the next poor couple. I'm not exaggerating here and this kind of stuff illustrates what my clients do not want. They want me for my candid and moody shots, full of expressions, life and the sense of being there.

It's not that I'm a better photographer - I'm a *different* photographer than many who are out here. The difference is like night and day, so I do not take it lightly when a couple expresses, that they want me to photograph because of my photos. Often I know exactly what that means or where they are coming from. There is nothing special about my photos though - my style is quiet normal in the western culture, but the wedding was not of western culture.

Sounds terrible, Zafar, professionals letting other professionals down.

In a world where I imagine you both have to cope with Bridezilla, etc, you'd understand and look out for each other.

How naive I am. :-)

When it comes to middle-eastern weddings, which this was, you are, sorry to say, very naive - and so was I when I first started. You can make out a plan with other professionals for a certain moment - and the moment is exactly as predicted/expected, and still get screwed over. The reason, as I now realize, is quiet simple: Many do not possess the competence to think outside their comfort zone, so when it comes down do it, they stick to what they are used to do.

osv, he's not expressing himself well because I think English is only his second language, but the message I get is he's talking about his inner thoughts, whether he's supposed to be the primary photographer (and everyone else gets out of his way) or vice versa, NOT that he was automatically expecting anyone and everyone to step aside. The fact that the other photo/video people at the wedding were spoken to repeatedly and not him indicates to me that he is in the clear here.

Busted - English isn't my first language and I might not have expressed myself well - my apologies for that.

When I have the meetings, I exaggerate because it's better to be safe than sorry. I can exaggerate about something as simple as remembering to bring along a pair of flat shoes for the bride, when doing the couple shoot. Many underestimate especially the little things and a sore-feet bride does not photograph well. Heck, I've had an entire couple-shoot canceled because a groom forgot to buy hair-spray or wax or whatever it was. Simple stuff is serious stuff, not to be underestimated.

In the end, the sore-feet or whatever it was, will have been forgotten and how the photos turned out is all that matters, almost without room for excuses. Fortunately I've had fair and sensible clients, but I've from time to time sensed this "ticking bomb" laying there. It's a big day and I have to make my precautions. As it is now, exaggerating is the way to do it.

One of the marks of professionalism is being able to get the job done no matter what obstacles you have to deal with - and in that regard you did well.

...

Of all the motivations to action, wounded pride is one of the most dangerous: not just to the victim, but also the attacker. However in your instance you refused to be victimized, which reflects well on you. The fact that you did your job well and produced good images from the event under difficult circumstances means that no amount of bad mouthing will tarnish your reputation.

Thanks. I've learned it the hard way and through experience. In the beginning, I wouldn't dare to say anything to "Uncle Bob", but now a days, my clients have more clear-cut expectations, so now, Uncle Bob must go. It's very important to me to keep smiling and when someone is hindering me of doing my work, I often get rid of the obstacle in a fun way, so people keep the good mood, rather than me getting stressed, grumpy and all that.

i think the video guys have trouble with Danish and osv with English

You are right on the money - the video guys could not speak Danish well but I could understand them a little bit. I didn't argue with them but instead relied on the brother, who was my contact during the day, on what he felt was best for them. While doing so, I always try to inform the best possible way I can, so they can make the right decisions.

I'm an old guy...but I can still bust people in the mouth and make it count.....and in your case that's what I would have done after the second request for them to get lost.

That's a skill I yet have to learn. Hopefully it will come one day, but it's not in my nature to be aggressive.

[macman24054]

Sounds like you took the high ground. I would not be concerned if they bad mouth you. In the end it is all about the images you give your clients. I shoot Pentax as pro and that is a very small percentage of what pros shoot. I don't let that concern me. My clients only concern is that I deliver the shots they are looking for. Continue to take the high ground and you will no doubt prevail.

[Davidparis]

you both apparently missed the part where he said, and i quoted: "I can't pay too much attention to where the video guys are..."

is that how you guys take photos? just completely ignore your surroundings? no regard for blocking other cameras, or blocking the view that someone else may have?

Dude, how's the weather wherever you are? Perhaps go take a walk and chill out?

[Alex645]

Weddings are incredibly stressful for everyone involved. And unfortunately, everyone from the wedding planner, the caterer, the videographers, the photographer, the minister/priest, etc, think everyone should prioritize their needs. Some hired help are in it for the short term and lack the experience, empathy, and wisdom of working as a team. If you're in it for the long term, then you just have to take the high road and show others what it means to be professional, even in situations with animosity.

Egos are incredibly inflated, as are prices, at weddings. Consider the pain you went through as priceless experience so that when something similar happens in the future, you will handle it better within the realm of what you can control. And although this is much easier said than done, much of what we do as photographers is much more than photography. It's a dance with not just your subjects, but also all the other invited and uninvited "guests". When I'm really on "my game" I'll arrive early and make time to befriend all the other "players". Get to know their names; courtesy and respect works both ways....and if they are still jerks, it's not really your problem; they've got to live with themselves.

[DeadJohn]

he was the primary photographer.

the other guys were primary videographers.

that doesn't give anyone the right to deliberately block shots.

Go back and read the original post. The client couple was more interested in photos done in his style than the video. He wasn't deliberately blocking shots but paying attention to the less important video team (based on the client's wishes) did not fit into his style.

If the client said video was more important, then it would have been the OP's job to maybe miss some shots to stay out of their way, but the client said the photos were more important. Their event. Their decision.

---------- Post added 12-27-15 at 04:53 AM ----------

...Thanks for being supportive...

It sounds like you handled things well. You planned ahead of time and understood what the client wanted. It's unfortunate but not your fault that someone else didn't listen to the client.

I wonder if anyone spoke to the videographers in advance of the event? If they were surprised to learn their work was lower priority, that might explain their rude behavior. That does not excuse their behavior just helps to understand it.

[pathdoc]

Zafar, I wasn't criticising your command of English, I was criticising osv for his unwillingness or inability to understand what you were trying to say. To me, your meaning was clear.