[Zephos]

I'm looking into a photography workshop because I really feel like I need some one-on-one coaching to figure out why I can't seem to put all the pieces together to get a good shot sometimes. I found these people in my area: Photography Workshops of Utah

They do one-on-one workshops but I'm worried that I might not get out of it what I hope though. Also, what if the guy sees my Pentax gear and treats me like a lost cause?

I don't know... how long does it take to get good at this anyway?

[Kath]

Also, what if the guy sees my Pentax gear and treats me like a lost cause?

Well, there would be a good reason to ask for your money back. I do hope you have enough self respect not to allow something like that to happen to you.

I don't know... how long does it take to get good at this anyway?

How long have you been at it? I think that most pepole will get reasonably good at something if they just keep doing it.

When I want to learn something, I look at workshops this way: There's a weight scale in front of me. On one side I put money. On the other side I put my time. If I have more money than time (not very often) then I take shortcuts like a workshop. If I have more time than money, then I read a lot and watch as many free videos as I can find.

But mostly? I shoot and shoot and shoot and then look at what I did and could have done differently. Put that together with reading everything you can and you can't help but get better.

But, hey, if money's not hard to come by, paying someone to help you through it is one way to go.

[Unregistered User 8]

Hi Zephos. If he (she ) treats you like a lost cause because you use Pentax, they no nothing about photography, nothing about cameras and nothing about teaching. So their input would be useless !!!

[johnhilvert]

It all depends on what you are trying to achieve. If anything you'll probably get some respect for being a discerning Pentax owner.

A lot of it is about having confidence and understanding in what your gear is capable of, the conditions you'll be shooting, and what outcome you want.

For example astro-photography always looks challenging to me. Mainly because the hours and the conditions can be enervating to get good results. But I am cool with street photography and portraits generally.

Why not submit some of your recent images here and get a critique for free? That will be many to one coaching as well.

[officiousbystander]

According to Cartier-Bresson it takes at least 10,000 photos to get good at this. I once did a one-on-one walk around photo session. It was a birthday present from my wife. I can't say I learnt a huge amount about everything. But that's missing the point. This guy constantly emphasised using the exposure compensation setting because the camera, as clever as it might be, has no idea of what you're really looking at. So I learnt one key thing which is one of the most important lessons I could have learnt. Up to that point I'd never touched the exposure comp settings. Also just spending a morning doing nothing but photography and taking scores of photos with constructive guidance taught me a lot generally anyway. As for your gear, a professional teacher knows it's irrelevant.

[Zephos]

Well, there would be a good reason to ask for your money back. I do hope you have enough self respect not to allow something like that to happen to you.



How long have you been at it? I think that most peole will get reasonably good at something if they just keep doing it.

When I want to learn something, I look at workshops this way: There's a weight scale in front of me. On one side I put money. On the other side I put my time. If I have more money than time (not very often) then I take shortcuts like a workshop. If I have more time than money, then I read a lot and watch as many free videos as I can find.

But mostly? I shoot and shoot and shoot and then look at what I did and could have done differently. Put that together with reading everything you can and you can't help but get better.

But, hey, if money's not hard to come by, paying someone to help you through it is one way to go.

Haha unfortunately I'm short on both so I'm out of luck

I'm probably being impatient.

---------- Post added 01-22-16 at 10:39 PM ----------

Hi Zephos. If he (she ) treats you like a lost cause because you use Pentax, they no nothing about photography, nothing about cameras and nothing about teaching. So their input would be useless !!!

Good point.

---------- Post added 01-22-16 at 10:40 PM ----------

According to Cartier-Bresson it takes at least 10,000 photos to get good at this. I once did a one-on-one walk around photo session. It was a birthday present from my wife. I can't say I learnt a huge amount about everything. But that's missing the point. This guy constantly emphasised using the exposure compensation setting because the camera, as clever as it might be, has no idea of what you're really looking at. So I learnt one key thing which is one of the most important lessons I could have learnt. Up to that point I'd never touched the exposure comp settings. Also just spending a morning doing nothing but photography and taking scores of photos with constructive guidance taught me a lot generally anyway. As for your gear, a professional teacher knows it's irrelevant.

I need to take more photos I see!

---------- Post added 01-22-16 at 10:41 PM ----------

It all depends on what you are trying to achieve. If anything you'll probably get some respect for being a discerning Pentax owner.

A lot of it is about having confidence and understanding in what your gear is capable of, the conditions you'll be shooting, and what outcome you want.

For example astro-photography always looks challenging to me. Mainly because the hours and the conditions can be enervating to get good results. But I am cool with street photography and portraits generally.

Why not submit some of your recent images here and get a critique for free? That will be many to one coaching as well.

I think my disappointment often comes from overestimating my gear, so I think understanding might help me there. Good point.

---------- Post added 01-22-16 at 10:49 PM ----------

It all depends on what you are trying to achieve. If anything you'll probably get some respect for being a discerning Pentax owner.

A lot of it is about having confidence and understanding in what your gear is capable of, the conditions you'll be shooting, and what outcome you want.

For example astro-photography always looks challenging to me. Mainly because the hours and the conditions can be enervating to get good results. But I am cool with street photography and portraits generally.

Why not submit some of your recent images here and get a critique for free? That will be many to one coaching as well.

You know it's funny because I am reluctant to ask for critique because I can usually see what I did wrong on my photos. Most times I know what I need to do but don't manage to pull it off! I had this experience tonight even. My wife and I went to dinner and I took my camera, tried to get a night portrait of her with some pretty lights in the background and most of my shots were grainy or out of focus, even though I did my best to focus and I was shooting at 3200 ISO but couldn't help it because my shutter speed was so slow. I had dialed in the f stop to get a nice bokeh with the lights but I forgot to realize that the situation demanded shooting wide open. Anyway, I look back and I can't believe I wasn't using a flash, especially when I was shooting handheld! I see very clearly what I did wrong, but in the moment I kinda suck at thinking it through

[johnhilvert]

... I took my camera, tried to get a night portrait of her with some pretty lights in the background and most of my shots were grainy or out of focus, even though I did my best to focus and I was shooting at 3200 ISO but couldn't help it because my shutter speed was so slow. I had dialed in the f stop to get a nice bokeh with the lights but I forgot to realize that the situation demanded shooting wide open. Anyway, I look back and I can't believe I wasn't using a flash, especially when I was shooting handheld! I see very clearly what I did wrong, but in the moment I kinda suck at thinking it through

I agree photographing in adverse light conditions can be challenging. In-camera flash can help but it can lead to less flattering candid shots also.

No one's perfect. But it's good to learn from such experiences.

Next time, I'd take a few flash shots so you have a few in the bag that are in focus, well exposed and low noise to start with.

When not using flash I'd also set your camera to avoid going over 1600 ISO, shoot RAW to recover the highlights in post processing. The key is to see how far you can under-expose RAW without incurring noise from the shadow areas. Experiment tonight at home and see how much your gear can under-expose and still provide reasonable results in post processing. Also think about setting your camera for multiple exposures so you can choose the optimum shots later.

Focus can be tough in low light. I've learnt to rely on setting the focus manually and not letting auto-focus second guess (more slowly) afterwards.

---

Last edited by johnhilvert; 01-23-2016 at 01:18 AM.

[biz-engineer]

Workshop... I'm looking into a photography workshop because I really feel like I need some one-on-one coaching to figure out why I can't seem to put all the pieces together to get a good shot sometimes. I found these people in my area: Photography Workshops of Utah They do one-on-one workshops but I'm worried that I might not get out of it what I hope though. Also, what if the guy sees my Pentax gear and treats me like a lost cause? I don't know... how long does it take to get good at this anyway?

Yes, relevant post. In order to raise your level and your results in photography, you need to forget about gear (forget about brands of camera etc...) and focus on observation, and also learn from results (even if shot with Canon or Nikon...) of others and yourself. Reading, workshops and trials in the field can help.... way more than controversial arguing that "Pentax is better than..." or "CanikonSony is not good" kind of posts. I'd say, Pentax Forum has a lot of resources regarding the technical side of Pentax cameras and Pentax lenses, but as far as art is concerned, there are other more relevant resources.

[BrianR]

The basic formula: shoot, evaluate, refine, shoot more.

Keep a notebook of your errors, or even better, a physical scrapbook of prints of your failures with notes on how to do better. Nothing reinforces what you should have done, than spending a few tactile minutes with your mistakes. The path to awesome is paved with bricks of failure, make sure you don't reuse any of the bricks.

Don't be shy about posting here for critique. Second, third, ... n-th friendly opinions can be invaluable to learning, and it can be very difficult to honestly evaluate your own work. We also guarantee not to laugh at your choice of brand. Not too much anyway.

You might try joining a camera club. Cheaper than most workshops, you can benefit from a coalition of the ignorant and learn with people at the same level you're at or from a more experienced mentor. Don't worry about what brand of camera you use, but it might be handy to keep you camera manual handy if you're looking to get advice (or a pdf version on a smartphone/tablet).

Best of luck and always have fun

[r0ckstarr]

Go find a book called "Understanding Exposure" by Bryan Peterson.
Read it. Afterwards, take the book into your backyard with you and try some of the things you've read.

Next, find a book called "Understanding Composition" by Bryan Peterson.
Read it. Afterwards, take the book into your backyard with you and try some of the things you've read while also using what you've learned from the first book.

Next, practice. Shoot tons of photos using the info you learned from those books.

After you do that, report back here for a quiz.

[WaxPhotographic]

Hey, if you want to go out shooting some time, message me. I don't claim to be a pro, but I have a fair amount of technique & theory down pat. There is no need for money to change hands. What specific areas do you want to improve upon?

[Zephos]

Hey, if you want to go out shooting some time, message me. I don't claim to be a pro, but I have a fair amount of technique & theory down pat. There is no need for money to change hands. What specific areas do you want to improve upon?

Will do! I'm a full time student + part time job + wife and daughter so one of my challenges is time, but I have to make room for play or else I will go crazy.

I really want to work on getting the right settings in the moment. I have studied the theory a lot, but I struggle putting it into practice.

[TaoMaas]

. I found these people in my area: Photography Workshops of Utah
They do one-on-one workshops but I'm worried that I might not get out of it what I hope though.

Are all their workshops one-day workshops? It's hard to get a lot out of one day no matter what your level of skill might be. The best you can hope for is to come away with a few tips and pointers.

There's a lot of good advice in this thread. Shooting more...and being hyper-critical about your results...is always good. You can also get a lot out of a great book on photography, whether it's instructional or just a collection of work by a photographer you admire. Joining a camera club can help as well, especially if they have in-club competitions. I'm also a believer in workshops and classes, although I think you'll get a lot more out of a workshop that is longer than just one day. I saved up my money and attended the best workshop I could afford back in about 1988 and it changed the course of my life. Not immediately, but I can look back and see that this was the point where my life took a different track...one that I'm still on today. Now, having said that, you can get pretty much everything you gain from a workshop by doing the things folks have listed above. All a good workshop really does is force you to shoot more, critique more, listen more, look more, and think more than you're used to for about a week or so. You might also check your area to see if there's any classes being offered by a local art museum or vo-tech. Those can be a good compromise between spending a bundle on an expensive workshop and getting more time than a one-day class can offer.

...what if the guy sees my Pentax gear and treats me like a lost cause?

I'm betting that won't happen.

[Mallee Boy]

This may help you Zephos...call the workshop hosts and discuss the details of the course, and somewhere in the conversation mention your camera....then guage the response.
If it is along the lines of "Oh...don't know anything about Pentax", then find another workshop. I had this response and that led to the Utah Workshop hosted by Marc Langille.

The response should be something like....it doesn't matter, the camera is only a tool.

[frogoutofwater]

I can share my own experience with photography courses and see if that might help you decide what's worth it for you, or not.

First of all, I am the kind of person who learns best (in the early stages) in some kind of online or live classroom - with homework and feedback to give me an incentive to practise. If it's something technical or physical, I usually need a little bit of hands-on help to start. If it's more on the creative side (or later in the process), I can often learn just as well online (or through reading etc).

I got my first advanced (interchangeable lens, manual controls) camera in early 2013 - a Sony NEX. I tried taking a 3-hour workshop on shooting in manual mode. It was almost completely useless because the instructor was only familiar with Canon and Nikon, so he was unable to offer me any hands-on help with my Sony.

I would add that I've never had a teacher be dismissive or insulting about the brand of camera I use (initially Sony, then Pentax). But I have had a few instances where the instructor wasn't familiar with some key functions - and that had an adverse effect on learning. But I don't think this would be a problem any kind of early stage course you'd take - I've only had that problem with Pentax when I've been taking studio and flash photography courses.

Next, I signed up for a 12-hour live course (2 hours per week for 6 weeks) with a local photography school (PhotoUno, in NYC). I LOVED it! I got both the technical help I needed, some short, practical and creative homework assignments to reinforce what I learned - and a highly motivated and creative instructor who encouraged me to play and learn. Of everything I've done, that 6-week hands-on course was the single best investment I've made in photography.

After completing that live course, I signed up for a few online courses through bpsop.com (Bryan Peterson School of Photography) - initially, a course on pet portraiture (because that's what I like doing) and then a basic course on Photoshop. Later on, I took some more courses (e.g., people portraits, etc). Mostly, I found the online program through BPSOP quite helpful (and the courses good) because:
- they fit a busy schedule - download a lesson on Friday and you have 9 days (until the following Sunday) to complete the homework assignment (usually uploading 3 images for critique)
- there's a discussion forum for the students and the teacher, so you can ask questions and get some feedback as you go
- you get a critique of your work and can also see the instructor's critique of other students' work - a good way to learn
- the pace is pretty good: mostly 4-week classes so you aren't pushed to learn too much at once, but they have a clear end point in sight
- prices aren't cheap (about $169 for the four-week courses, unless they have an occasional promo) but not super-expensive either

There are cheaper (and more expensive) kinds of online learning, but personally, I found that I needed the incentive/reinforcement/feedback from the homework assignment plus critique. If it's something more passive (e.g., watching a course online without a deliverable that's marked), I don't get as much out of it.

I went on to complete a LOT of other courses and workshops over the past couple of years. I'm fortunate to be able to afford that in terms of time and money, and I live in NYC, which has a grad school-level institution (International Center of Photography) with a great continuing studies program.

I also have got a lot of benefit out of joining some Facebook groups that focus on particular areas of photography that I'm interested in (nature, photography for animal shelters, animal portraiture and a general group). If you're interested in the general group, PM me and I can send you an invitation to our general group.

Here is what I'm doing these days:
Frog out of Water Photography

Bottom line - Unless you are both mechanically and artistically adept, I think you'd benefit from some hands-on instruction at the outset. That could be a 3-hour workshop (but make sure they're familiar with Pentax) or you might be better off taking up the offer in this thread from WaxPhotographic. Personally, I think it's more helpful to have a few lessons of a few hours each, spaced apart so that you can practice each lesson before moving to the next.

Once you get beyond the technical basics, you can learn a lot on your own by looking at great photography, watching tutorials, joining a photography club (in your city or online). If you can afford to spend money on a high-quality workshop that is focused on your interests and offers good group critique (from the instructor and students), that's great but not essential.

And of course, you need to shoot shoot shoot - and expose yourself to critique.