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02-01-2016, 07:16 PM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by Digitalis Quote
Especially the Sigma 30mmm f/1.4 EX...
LOL, had to get that in!

QuoteOriginally posted by Digitalis Quote
Coincidentally, this [the mall portrait studio] is also the place where I would expect to find a photographer who thoroughly hates their job.
Yeah, I could see that. It's kind of like assembly-line photography. Very repetitive and without any technical challenges or problem solving.

A few years ago, I took the wife and kids to "The Picture People" in the mall for a simple family portrait. I took a peek at the strobes (AlienBees) during the session, and I was surprised to see they had duct tape over the controls to keep the "photographers" from changing any of the settings. It seems like the only change the employees are able to make is the backdrop since I never saw them touch any of the lighting equipment any time I ever went there.

QuoteOriginally posted by Digitalis Quote
If purgatory is mall portraiture photography, then Santa photography is a fully populated lion pit....I couldn't imagine a worse hell than that. Being good with babies and kids has very little to do with being a good photographer.
Funny you bring that up. When we visited Santa at the mall this year, I declined to buy a photo because the lighting was so bad. They had a single umbrella facing straight into Santa's face, and reflecting off the wood of Santa's chair creating a white glare. I saw pictures from people ahead of us, and it didn't look any better than an on-camera flash. I was so impressed with how lame it was, that I even snapped some pictures of it:





The picture I got from 30 feet away and off to the side with my little GX7 and no flash was much better. Sure, I could have used a little more depth of field for my daughter on the left, but the lighting was pretty dim in Santa's shack and I was already at ISO 3200 with the lens wide open. But I wasn't about to spend good money on the crappy looking photo they would have given us.




Last edited by Edgar_in_Indy; 02-01-2016 at 07:23 PM.
02-01-2016, 08:03 PM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by Edgar_in_Indy Quote
was so impressed with how lame it was, that I even snapped some pictures of it:
Whoever set those lights up wins the keeping it simple stupid prize....but even basic portraiture can be anything but simple. Most of the mall Santa shots I have witnessed here in Australia involved setups with two, sometimes three strobes with translucent umbrellas, I have even seen a 70cm gridded beauty dish being used.

QuoteOriginally posted by Edgar_in_Indy Quote
Very repetitive and without any technical challenges or problem solving.
That is why I love the work I do, it isn't the same every week. For instance yesterday I had a client who wanted me to replicate the lighting for a full length shot they had seen in a magazine and shoot, at full length a trio of models wearing dresses with a similar colour from a different designer - it is difficult to do that, but it is one of the challenges I get every now and then that makes my commercial work so enjoyable.

Last edited by Digitalis; 02-01-2016 at 08:19 PM.
02-01-2016, 08:31 PM   #18
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On a whim, recently I've taken some photos with speedlights and my DA 18-135. That lens does really quite well, speed lights/strobes used correctly really bring a heck of a lot to the party.
02-01-2016, 08:36 PM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by Digitalis Quote
Being good with babies and kids has very little to do with being a good photographer.
But it has a lot to do with getting up and going to work at the mall without going crazy. I don't think there is much 'photography' going on at those shops. Someone set up the lights and camera settings. All the "photographer" has to do is smile and wave the teddy bear until the kid smiles.

---------- Post added 02-01-16 at 07:39 PM ----------

On the other extreme you have this:
Anne Geddes

02-01-2016, 08:51 PM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by Edgar_in_Indy Quote
I was so impressed with how lame it was, that I even snapped some pictures of it:
It looks like the poor lighting made your youngest cry. But on the plus side she was able to recognize lameness at such a young age so maybe she's a photography prodigy.

Great family photo by the way, I'm sure your kids will get a kick out of Dad's fascination with the behind-the-scenes.
02-01-2016, 11:11 PM   #21
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For what it's worth, at one point I've been there and done that. Yes, it's purgatory, but it's a choice. At a lull right after college I was offered a job shooting mugs for sororities and frats circa 1982. $5/head x 50-150 heads/house x 2-4 sororities per day. You do the math and I made a ton of money shooting 5 poses per person with the same lighting, backdrop, f/stop, and flash sync speed.

Yes, it was creative suicide, but my equipment was earning my living and when I finally quit, I realized that I loved photography more than I loved money. Anyone see the Robyn Williams film One Hour Photo? There was a lot more truth than fiction in that film....creepy, pathetic, and disturbing...but Williams played the part really well.
02-02-2016, 12:36 AM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by Alex645 Quote
Yes, it was creative suicide, but my equipment was earning my living and when I finally quit, I realized that I loved photography more than I loved money.
It is good you discovered that, as there are some photographers I know of who love money more than photography. The only significant drawback to my work is that i'm pretty much surrounded by people who embrace superficial things - and some of the younger models* are becoming increasingly difficult to work with. One thing I'm particularly good at that has sunk the career of many studio photographers is working with animals - I grew up in the country and I have been around domesticated and wild animals for a long time, I find them very easy to work with. Some photographers will say working with animals is even harder than working with kids.


QuoteOriginally posted by Alex645 Quote
anyone see the Robyn Williams film One Hour Photo? There was a lot more truth than fiction in that film....creepy, pathetic, and disturbing...but Williams played the part really well.
I think Robin Williams did a great job in that movie, and he played the role very well - it was perhaps one of his darkest characters, but you can see he really committed to it.

* for some catalog work I have worked with underage models(aged 14~17) and personally I prefer working with older, more experienced models(age 21 and up). The young ones have no idea how to pose and are very self conscious of themselves in front of the camera, thus the difficulty of getting natural open poses. Also having their parents/guardians on set can be particularly bothersome - but from a legal standpoint: the shoot doesn't start until they are there and have the release papers signed beforehand.

02-02-2016, 12:41 AM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by Digitalis Quote
Most of the mall Santa shots I have witnessed here in Australia involved setups with two, sometimes three strobes
I need to do a better job of remembering to read your posts in an Australian accent. You have it easier, of course, since I don't have any kind of accent.

QuoteOriginally posted by Digitalis Quote
That is why I love the work I do, it isn't the same every week. For instance yesterday I had a client who wanted me to replicate the lighting for a full length shot they had seen in a magazine and shoot, at full length a trio of models wearing dresses with a similar colour from a different designer - it is difficult to do that, but it is one of the challenges I get every now and then that makes my commercial work so enjoyable.
I can see the enjoyable part of the challenge, but can't it also be pretty stressful when somebody is paying you good money for results, and other professionals are standing there relying on you to get it perfect and to make them look good? I think I would be sweating buckets.

That's why photography is only a hobby for me, and why I usually prefer to work for free when a friend offers to pay me to take some photos. So I can't complain too loudly about the commercial studios keeping their photographers on a short leash, when time is money for them.
02-02-2016, 01:05 AM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by Edgar_in_Indy Quote
You have it easier, of course, since I don't have any kind of accent.
I hate to disappoint you, but I don't really have an Aussie accent - my accent is bastardized due to a lot of international travel. Apparently I speak English like I'm from Manchester, UK....well at least I don't sound like I'm from Bristol

QuoteOriginally posted by Edgar_in_Indy Quote
can't it also be pretty stressful when somebody is paying you good money for results, and other professionals are standing there relying on you to get it perfect and to make them look good? I think I would be sweating buckets.
I love a challenge, yes there are stressful times when product has to be delivered on a very tight deadline. Sometimes you have to work with a really vague brief, with abstract language to be interpreted and used to describe the kind of image the client wants - I have a client who just gives me a loose set of keywords that have to be included in the set of images: bucket, sky, sand,sun. And then there are some clients who just about write a short-medium length essay on what they want.

I do pro-bono work for the Adelaide University - whenever they have a guest artist presenting an instrumental masterclass I'm always welcome to attend and photograph the event. And I get to learn more about music as I go...a win=win situation really

And the elder hall is a lovely building, too:

Pentax K5IIs- Sigma 8-16mm f/4.5-5.6 @ 8mm f/11 1/60th. ISO 3200

Last edited by Digitalis; 02-02-2016 at 01:21 AM.
02-02-2016, 04:14 AM   #25
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I think you have your answer, which is that studio photography is very much more about lighting than about lenses. You just aren't going to see bokeh and the lenses will be stopped down to f8, in general and should be decently sharp.

My wife shoots with a DA *16-50 or DFA 24-70 in her studio right now and the lenses are fine, but she also shoots weddings and so having faster lenses comes in handy for that. If all she did was studio work, I could see using cheaper lenses and spending more on lights.
02-02-2016, 04:19 AM   #26
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Lighting modifiers make a bigger difference than lenses do in the studio. And some light modifiers can cost as much as a high quality lens.

Though Personally I wouldn't really have any issues with someone using the Kit zoom in the studio - personally I wouldn't use it, as I prefer prime lenses for studio work.
02-02-2016, 06:19 AM - 1 Like   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by Digitalis Quote
And the elder hall is a lovely building, too:

Pentax K5IIs- Sigma 8-16mm f/4.5-5.6 @ 8mm f/11 1/60th. ISO 3200
A beautiful hall and a cool picture. That's an excellent use of the Sigma 8-16mm. I've found that at 8mm, it makes the size of these types of settings appear even more grand than they are in person, which is not necessarily a bad thing. But I'm guessing that in person, the stage area does not appear to be quite so far away from the rear balcony.

QuoteOriginally posted by BrianR Quote
It looks like the poor lighting made your youngest cry. But on the plus side she was able to recognize lameness at such a young age so maybe she's a photography prodigy.
The funny thing about that picture with her crying is that we did not notice that she had a piece of cereal in her mouth until that moment. We had not given her any food, so it must have been something she found on the floor, dropped by some other baby. My wife was horrified. But yeah, the uninspired use of off-camera lighting probably did not help the baby's mood at all, but she truly was terrified by the "big guy".

We encountered Santa again at a school event a few days later, and all she could do was cling to her mother and stare in horror. Any closer than this picture, any she would break into tears.



QuoteOriginally posted by BrianR Quote
Great family photo by the way, I'm sure your kids will get a kick out of Dad's fascination with the behind-the-scenes.
They've had to learn to put up with my hobbies. I'm hoping that some of it will rub off on them. My 8-yoa daughter was helping me audition a new set of speakers last night, and I had her do some blind A/B comparisons, and she actually seemed to have a pretty good ear and could describe the differences. So maybe I'll eventually have some co-conspirators in the house with me!

Last edited by Edgar_in_Indy; 02-03-2016 at 06:37 PM.
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