[philbaum]

I think 10 years from now, aps-c will only be available in mirrorless and hi-end compact camera's. Dslr will be full frame only and mainly for pro shooters, so in lower volume then mirrorless is.

Yep, i don't disagree with any of that. I don't think that aps or FF are going away. All the body design work has already been accomplished in the main. Most needed lenses are in existence or are close. FF cameras are trending downwards in cost. Manufacturers only need to coast in their work from now on

Medium format is a question mark for me. Will there be enough customers to sustain the companies manufacturing these. Canikon, Sony are not manufacturing MF - why not? Fuji is entering this market and has previous experience.

[Nicolas06]

Did you calculate it? Because the second term drops to zero for N1=N2. Read my blog if you are not scared of the truth.

Man you can even drop the formula in google and replace the variable with their value, google give you the response.. It is not like it is complex to compute.

[dtmateojr]

Man you can even drop the formula in google and replace the variable with their value, google give you the response.. It is not like it is complex to compute.

True, so how come you still got it wrong? Can't type?

---------- Post added 03-20-16 at 19:42 ----------

Jack has seen the light :-)

[Nicolas06]

True, so how come you still got it wrong? Can't type?

---------- Post added 03-20-16 at 19:42 ----------

Jack has seen the light :-)

What light? You are confused over trivialities and make grand conclusions. Jack saw the light. You have the secret truth... Just we have to read your blog... This almost look like you are some sort of guru from a sect. The most funy are the comment on your blog post, they say the same as we say here. You are not focussing on what count.

Maybe you are the one, maybe you get eveything other don't get and maybe you get fantatisc pictures with your D4 while other struggle to make terrible snapshots with their D810... Or maybe the many people saying you concentrate on the wrong things and this have some part of the truth too...

At 8MP both D4 and D810 get similar SNR at low iso. D4 better at very high iso.
At 16MP both D4 and D810 get similar SNR at low iso. D4 better at very high iso.
At 36MP D4 can't follow and D810 get 3db less than at 16Mb pixels exactly like D4 as 3db less at 16MB than 8MP or D810 has 3db less at 16MP vs 8MP.

Now one will buy the D4 for high FPS and very high iso performance while another will buy the D810 for landscapes shots but they are more similar than they are different for most shooting situations. That what the measurement are saying actually. Don't like it? I am sorry for you.

There no more to say.

[dtmateojr]

Rx

What light? You are confused over trivialities and make grand conclusions. Jack saw the light. You have the secret truth... Just we have to read your blog... This almost look like you are some sort of guru from a sect. The most funy are the comment on your blog post, they say the same as we say here. You are not focussing on what count.

Maybe you are the one, maybe you get eveything other don't get and maybe you get fantatisc pictures with your D4 while other struggle to make terrible snapshots with their D810... Or maybe the many people saying you concentrate on the wrong things and this have some part of the truth too...

At 8MP both D4 and D810 get similar SNR at low iso. D4 better at very high iso.
At 16MP both D4 and D810 get similar SNR at low iso. D4 better at very high iso.
At 36MP D4 can't follow and D810 get 3db less than at 16Mb pixels exactly like D4 as 3db less at 16MB than 8MP or D810 has 3db less at 16MP vs 8MP.

Now one will buy the D4 for high FPS and very high iso performance while another will buy the D810 for landscapes shots but they are more similar than they are different for most shooting situations. That what the measurement are saying actually. Don't like it? I am sorry for you.

There no more to say.

<Rude comments removed by mod>

[monochrome]

This message is hidden because dtmateojr is on your ignore list.

Please stop hijacking threads.

[Parallax]

I think you will find the atmosphere of this thread much more cordial now.

[angerdan]

As of 2021, it seems that the only (remaining) high-end APS-C DLSR camera could be the upcoming K-3 III.
K-3 III Article Collection - PentaxForums.com

[BigMackCam]

Zombie thread alert!! How did you dig this one up, Chris?!

As of 2021, it seems that the only (remaining) high-end APS-C DLSR camera could be the upcoming K-3 III.
K-3 III Article Collection - PentaxForums.com

How about Fujifilm? Aside from the medium format offerings, the rest of its ILCs - including the higher-end models - are APS-C.

Then, there's the Sony A6600... just over a year old now, still very current...

[surfar]

high-end APS-C DLSR camera

How about Fujifilm? Aside from the medium format offerings, the rest of its ILCs - including the higher-end models - are APS-C.

Then, there's the Sony A6600... just over a year old now, still very current...

He's talking about those mirrored thing$!

[BigMackCam]

Zombie thread alert!! How did you dig this one up, Chris?!



How about Fujifilm? Aside from the medium format offerings, the rest of its ILCs - including the higher-end models - are APS-C.

Then, there's the Sony A6600... just over a year old now, still very current...

I just noticed... You specifically said DSLR, so not including mirrorless. How about Nikon ... Doesn't it still have the D7x00 models?

[gatorguy]

As of 2021, it seems that the only (remaining) high-end APS-C DLSR camera could be the upcoming K-3 III.
K-3 III Article Collection - PentaxForums.com

Just finished reading an article offering kudos to Pentax for being the only manufacturer currently innovating for APS-C DSLR's. Everyone else is hoping ignoring DSLR's and promoting MILC as the new big thing (until the next new big thing) leads to essentially forcing buyers into new glass too.

It's as much or more about dollars as it is moving the craft forward IMO.

[RGlasel]

it seems that the only (remaining) high-end APS-C DLSR camera could be the upcoming K-3 III

the rest of its ILCs - including the higher-end models - are APS-C.Then, there's the Sony A6600... just over a year old now, still very current...

The difference in photos taken by APS-C cameras with and without a mirror might not be noticeable, but there is a big difference in buyer perception. Whatever buyer interest is remaining for new ILCs (either with a mirror or not) seems to be predominately for higher-end models, so we can safely limit our discussion to higher-end models. Then the question is what size of sensor are the few remaining ILC buyers interested in; funny how in less than 5 years from when this thread started, m43 has dropped out of the conversation. It is also ironic that the two companies with the capability to launch entirely new high-end MILC product lines in either APS-C or FF chose to put all their efforts into FF MILC cameras. There is a big difference for a camera manufacturer if it decides to keep a format in its catalog (without major changes to its products) or if it decides to compete in established markets with a product that is very different from what it currently offers.

IF you want to look 10 years down the road (or an additional 5 years for this thread) then you have to determine if the number of buyers for new ILCs will grow again to come close to the numbers of 10 years ago and if existing camera manufacturers will invest in truly new products or just maintain what they already offer. If the market doesn't grow dramatically, the second question becomes easy to answer and then the next question is what format of lenses are those remaining ILC buyers interested in adding to their collection, because if they don't spend any money on lenses they aren't going to be spending much money on new cameras either.

It could be that Pentax will be the only manufacturer to offer a high-end APS-C DSLR five or ten years from now, but it costs Canon and Nikon virtually nothing to maintain a presence in this market, so I don't expect either of them to drop out. I could say the same for the company that manufactures Sony ILCs, but will it stick with APS-C if all of the lenses it sells are FF? The gap between APS-C buyers and MF buyers is even bigger than between APS-C and FF, so if no one is interested in buying new X-mount lenses, it is hard to see Fujifilm maintaining its APS-C lineup for another five to ten years. As small as the Pentax brand is, the release of new lenses designed for APS-C will have as much to do with there being new Pentax APS-C ILC cameras for purchase five or ten years down the road as anything else.

[jatrax]

you have to determine if the number of buyers for new ILCs will grow again to come close to the numbers of 10 years ago

I don't really see that ever happening;
- 10 years ago camera sales were still in a growth bubble as everyone transitioned to digital from film
- cell phones have replaced an ILC for the majority of casual shooters
- people have transitioned to digital viewing and saving of their images, prints are far less common which reduces the need or perception of need for a 'good' camera

So I think we will get back to a sales volume more normal in the '70s & '80s less the low end that will be using cell phones

[johnmflores]

Zombie thread alert!! How did you dig this one up, Chris?!



How about Fujifilm? Aside from the medium format offerings, the rest of its ILCs - including the higher-end models - are APS-C.

Then, there's the Sony A6600... just over a year old now, still very current...

It's funny - I don't remember Fuji ever being criticized for sticking with APS-C in quite the same way Pentax was pre-K1. Fuji's APS-C offerings have been highly regarded and coveted by pros and serious amateurs alike.

Maybe it's not the sensor size after all?