[Winder]

https://fstoppers.com/historical/what-you-dont-know-about-photograph-has-pow...pinions-125776

[UncleVanya]

Thank you. That was very interesting.

[aacjr]

Very interesting read and very insightful! I knew of this photo and felt the same way as most people did. It’s a wonder what a little context can do to change your prospective of a situation you thought you were 100% correct about.

[Billk]

Thanks for sharing this.


My suburb has lots of refugees from Viet Nam and Cambodia and I am privileged to them their share their life stories with me. I think, in the United States and Australia, we are now more ready to deal with the complexities of those wars and that certainly must include acknowledging the service of those who fought for South Viet Nam.

[clackers]

Yeah, Loan let the moment get to him. IIRC, he knew Tuan personally.


If there was that much evidence against Bay Lop, a public trial would have dealt justice and better suited international opinion.


IMHO, a chief of police around a photographer had to be smarter than that. A big factor in the defeat of South Vietnam was the incompetence and corruption of its government.

[JimmyDranox]

My perspective is the same. Some people, driven by war, transformed in soulless killing machines.

And everything for what? Is Viet Nam a communist country? Yes. Where are Pentax lenses made? In Viet Nam, by a capitalist corporation.

[timb64]

Yeah, Loan let the moment get to him. IIRC, he knew Tuan personally.


If there was that much evidence against Bay Lop, a public trial would have dealt justice and better suited international opinion.


IMHO, a chief of police around a photographer had to be smarter than that. A big factor in the defeat of South Vietnam was the incompetence and corruption of its government.

I don't see the American War,as it known in Viet Nam,as the defeat of the South,but as the liberation of the country from colonial oppression.They had kicked out the French and then did the same to the US.They have also seen off aggression from China so they punch well above their weight!

[RobA_Oz]

Given the US involvement in the Vietnam War (Australia, New Zealand and South Korea were there, too) anyone not around at the time could be forgiven for thinking South Vietnam was a colony of the USA, but it wasn't, so the "liberation" of the South was the victory of the Russian-backed North over the American-backed South. This, by the way, is history, not politics.

On the photo itself, the background story was available at the time, but, as with many images in times of conflict and high emotion, people could, and did, attach their own meaning to it. As a matter of record, I was a young potential conscriptee to the Australian Army, having won the "lottery" but having the "prize" deferred as I was studying for my Engineering Degree at the time. This photo, with others, and the nightly broadcast of what also became known as the first TV war, did much to shift public opinion against ongoing participation.

[timb64]

If we're talking history,not politics, it should be recognised that Ho Chi Minh was first and foremost a Nationalist who's prime aim was the unification of his country, which had been artificially divided in 1954 following the defeat of the French. He was pragmatic enough to accept military support to achieve this aim but resisted all other attempts at outside influence.
The US became involved because they feared a domino effect of South East Asian States falling to Communism. Under this pretext they became embroiled in the area, propping up a widely unpopular puppet government in the south,carrying out covert and illegal action in neighbouring Cambodia and Laos (leading the latter to have the unfortunate distinction of being the most heavily bombed nation in history).

[clackers]

They have also seen off aggression from China so they punch well above their weight!

Centuries of it, including a remarkable 1979 war that they won.

[pathdoc]

...and then did the same to the US.

If you're going to be honest, you should admit the MASSIVE material and technological help they had from the USSR.

[clackers]

If you're going to be honest, you should admit the MASSIVE material and technological help they had from the USSR.

Although, if material and technology were sufficient, the South wouldn't have lost in '75.

IIRC, they had one of the largest standing armies in the world at that point and were far better equipped than the North.

[RobA_Oz]

If we're talking history,not politics, it should be recognised that Ho Chi Minh was first and foremost a Nationalist who's prime aim was the unification of his country, which had been artificially divided in 1954 following the defeat of the French. He was pragmatic enough to accept military support to achieve this aim but resisted all other attempts at outside influence.
The US became involved because they feared a domino effect of South East Asian States falling to Communism. Under this pretext they became embroiled in the area, propping up a widely unpopular puppet government in the south,carrying out covert and illegal action in neighbouring Cambodia and Laos (leading the latter to have the unfortunate distinction of being the most heavily bombed nation in history).

No quibbles with that, except that the actual natures of the South Vietnamese governments were fairly complex, starting with a president from the Catholic minority, who was overthrown by a military coup backed by the CIA. The North Vietnamese at least did their own fighting, taking over from the Viet Cong when they started to falter.

The South Vietnamese government may have been "widely unpopular", but we have suburbs that are testament to the numbers of South Vietnamese who rejected Ho's brand of nationalism. Like the nature of their governments, the reactions of people to someone else's view of what's good for them are complex, too.

My history comment, by the way, was just to fend off a possibly over-enthusiastic moderator.

[AussieTrev]

Politics aside, a very interesting article. We do have to pause and look deeper and sometimes resist the emotion that such a powerful photo creates, very hard. The media play on emotion and sensationalism, reading the headlines often has little to do with the real story. The old adage never let the facts get in the way of a good story.

[clackers]

The North Vietnamese at least did their own fighting, taking over from the Viet Cong when they started to falter.

It has been speculated that the Tet Offensive was partly designed by the North Vietnamese officials like Giap to brutally write off their Viet Cong partners, who would want a say in a united Vietnam.

Ho himself was no great follower of traditional communism. In fact he was a Francophile (had been a chef in Paris) and admired the United States (had been inspired by the Declaration of Independence).

He was naive, though, if he thought the great powers were going to actually let free elections happen in 1956 as promised. Any dream of becoming the equivalent of India's Nehru was just that.