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05-25-2016, 05:31 PM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by derelict Quote
- "Golden hour" everything. No thank you. My "Golden hour" is sitting at the table, eating breakfast with my wife while we try watch the hilariousness that is an 18 month old eating oatmeal with a spoon.

- Do not shoot at noon. Sorry, but that is when I can be outside. I will adapt and black and white can save me. Thank you.
Well under a canopy of tree leaves in the woods, it's dark whatever time of day it is, so noon light not so bad, since it's shady under all the trees anyway.

---------- Post added 05-25-16 at 07:38 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Tanzer Quote
I used to think that if "the best camera is the one that you have with you," then "I'll just carry the best DLSR (K-3) that I have, everywhere."

But I have come to realize how uncomfortable people can get when they see a big camera. So I am trying to force myself to carry one of my smaller cameras (Q, MX-1, etc), and put up with the loss of IQ in favor of a more relaxed shooting environment.

In other words, "the best pictures happen when people (subjects, bystanders, or security guards) are not annoyed by a big scary camera." I have absolutely no interest in becoming a street photographer, but sometimes, it helps to think like one. It's not about what I'm willing to carry, it's about what I can get away with carrying.
Today at the State Park I accidentally managed to impress 40 people with the K3 II paired with the Sigma 150-500mm on a tripod. Thought I would be alone in that area of trail.... Guessed wrong. Smiles and Oohs and ahhhs and such praise type comments were directed at the rig from everyone passing along the trail.

---------- Post added 05-25-16 at 07:42 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
I'm trying to think of a rule of thumb that has become irrelevant. Crank your film advance a quarter turn to make sure the film is secure on the sockets and loading onto the take-up spool, comes to mind.
Or putting the lens cap back as to not run down the light meter battery.....


Last edited by sherrvonne; 05-25-2016 at 05:39 PM.
05-25-2016, 05:53 PM   #32
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I have mostly dropped the rule of thirds. It is fine to use sometimes but not every time.

I now mostly use golden spiral and golden section composition proportions, plus another one I forgot the name of. When cropping, I nearly always put a composition template over the image.

I look for curving lines and also try to make the main subject the area of maximum contrast. That happens pretty much automatically if you use wider apertures.
05-25-2016, 07:02 PM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by jpzk Quote
2. SR: since I turned it "off" on my K3 .... I am getting better results.
This is most unintuitive. Do you have any tests of this or did you just decide to do it and found better results? Is it because of anything specific you can think of? I get great SR results but I'm open minded.
05-25-2016, 08:43 PM   #34
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I'd suggest that any "rule of thumb" deserves to be broken just out of spite. There are more than enough rules in life. I don't need any when I'm trying to enjoy my photography.

05-25-2016, 09:01 PM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by gaweidert Quote
Image stabilization has impacted me a bit on old rule that you shutter speed should never be slower that 1/focal length of the lens when the camera is being hand held.
With K-1 I forgot about that rule. Having sharp images with 300mm at 1/100 is a common thing already. It's so easy to get used into good things
05-26-2016, 02:47 AM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by wissink Quote
Amen sir! Family doesnt' allow the advertised necessity for shooting at certain times or even in certain exotic places. I simply can't go out many times.
You get it. Although I am up early, I do not have the time nor the motivation to grab stuff and head to some location. Golden Hour shots are great but there are enough people doing it that I can just look at their photos.

I really don't use anything when shooting. I just take photos.


Oh, I also like lens flare. There, I said it. I think it's cool. Does the image degrade a little. Sure. But, I did mention that I thought it was cool right? I don't go out looking for it but if it does happen, I'm certainly not angry about it... You know, because it's cool.
05-26-2016, 03:37 PM   #37
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These are very interesting. I'm glad I asked the question. I hope new posts keep rolling in.

Part of the problem with Rules of Thumb that are hard to give up, is that they have seemed to serve us well, and they might have been important breakthroughs in our early photography learning. "Ah-hah!" that helps me make better pictures we may have thought or said when we first adopted one of them.

Some of the ones that have been described I never knew of -- for example "F8 and be there." I have read that with some lenses F8 is the "sweet spot," but I wasn't aware of it being a more universal idea. SR making the shooting the reciprocal of the ISO as shutter speed unnecessary, is irrelevant for me, as I have yet to own a camera body with SR. My K110D doesn't have it. I have tempted fate by trying to shoot a 300mm lens at 1/30th sec handheld, though, while praying probably, just because I was hoping I might get a certain shot.

Do post more!
05-26-2016, 05:41 PM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by goatsNdonkey Quote
I have read that with some lenses F8 is the "sweet spot," but I wasn't aware of it being a more universal idea.
I'm not trying to be pedantic, but wanted to point out that for small-sensor cameras, and the smaller focal lengths that typically go along with them, the saying should probably be more like "f/5.6 and be there," or "f/4 and be there". That will produce good depth-of-field, while avoiding diffraction. The diffraction limit is based on properties of visible light, and doesn't care about equivalence, whereas the f-stop depends on the actual focal length of the lens. This is why small-sensor cameras often incorporate built-in ND filters to handle bright conditions. Stopping down to f/16 or maybe f/32 (just pulling out numbers) can be fine on medium format, but not on a Pentax Q. In other words, f/32 on a typical medium format lens is not too small, but f/32 on a typical Q lens would be really tiny and cause diffraction problems.

I'm really not trying to be pedantic! I love the underlying concept of "f/8 and be there".

05-26-2016, 06:45 PM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by UncleVanya Quote
This is most unintuitive. Do you have any tests of this or did you just decide to do it and found better results? Is it because of anything specific you can think of? I get great SR results but I'm open minded.
I am quite new to the K3 (coming from a K10D, K20D, K7 and K5) and the first series of birding shots were not at all to my liking: soft, blurry.
So I posted several times in different threads asking for "tips" on how to get better results with the K3 + DA*300/4 and I recall a few posts where it was mentioned "SR OFF", so I tried that.
Since I nearly always shoot at 1/1000 s or faster, I thought this would maybe help and, to my surprise, it does.
Now, is this because I am slowly getting used to the K3? Is it because SR is not needed at fast shutter speeds? A combination of both?
Unintuitive perhaps but it works for me.
Of course, I will certainly turn the SR ON if I shoot in situations requiring slower shutter speeds ... which makes me think that I should just try that for a few shots!
Cheers!
05-26-2016, 07:00 PM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by jpzk Quote
I am quite new to the K3 (coming from a K10D, K20D, K7 and K5) and the first series of birding shots were not at all to my liking: soft, blurry.
So I posted several times in different threads asking for "tips" on how to get better results with the K3 + DA*300/4 and I recall a few posts where it was mentioned "SR OFF", so I tried that.
Since I nearly always shoot at 1/1000 s or faster, I thought this would maybe help and, to my surprise, it does.
Now, is this because I am slowly getting used to the K3? Is it because SR is not needed at fast shutter speeds? A combination of both?
Unintuitive perhaps but it works for me.
Of course, I will certainly turn the SR ON if I shoot in situations requiring slower shutter speeds ... which makes me think that I should just try that for a few shots!
Cheers!

Handheld or tripod shots?
05-26-2016, 07:54 PM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by UncleVanya Quote
Handheld or tripod shots?
Birding shots ... all handheld.
You can go (click) to my signature and see what's there at Flickr.
05-26-2016, 11:14 PM   #42
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To pile on, and clarify maybe, the concept behind "f/8 and be there" is always good to remember.

f/8 is a clean aperture on most every lens ever made sure, but it's more about the concept of "being there". f/8 will give you good depth of field for most situations so that you don't have to focus as critically to get an overal sharp photo/subject on moderately wide to normal lenses used by most or at least many photojournalists (35mm, 50mm). It also simplifies adjusting an all manual camera in changing light situations, allowing you to act and react faster. f8 and 400 speed film gives you a shutter speed of 1/500s in bright sunlight, as fast as many older cameras can go, and hence plenty of flexibility in lower light situations. In other words it gets the camera out of the way and allows you to be there.

QuoteOriginally posted by Tanzer Quote
I'm not trying to be pedantic, but wanted to point out that for small-sensor cameras, and the smaller focal lengths that typically go along with them, the saying should probably be more like "f/5.6 and be there," or "f/4 and be there". That will produce good depth-of-field, while avoiding diffraction. The diffraction limit is based on properties of visible light, and doesn't care about equivalence, whereas the f-stop depends on the actual focal length of the lens. This is why small-sensor cameras often incorporate built-in ND filters to handle bright conditions. Stopping down to f/16 or maybe f/32 (just pulling out numbers) can be fine on medium format, but not on a Pentax Q. In other words, f/32 on a typical medium format lens is not too small, but f/32 on a typical Q lens would be really tiny and cause diffraction problems.

I'm really not trying to be pedantic! I love the underlying concept of "f/8 and be there".
05-26-2016, 11:38 PM - 1 Like   #43
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I love "F8 and be there"!


For me it is mostly TAV then 1/1000s + F8 and be there (for wildlife) and 1/200s + F8 and be there for everything else.


A great photography journalist here (Terry Lane) wrote a column a while back about how to set up any digital camera for a friend to reliably be better than auto everything. It was centre point focus and metering, ISO 400, shutter priority and 1/160s if I remember right. I think it was following some photojournalist's all-purpose settings. It put shutter speed ahead of depth of field to meet the need to freeze ordinary motion (walking and body movements) well enough.


Will try to find it and see if I remembered accurately.
05-27-2016, 05:23 AM   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by Billk Quote
A great photography journalist here (Terry Lane) wrote a column a while back about how to set up any digital camera for a friend to reliably be better than auto everything. It was centre point focus and metering, ISO 400, shutter priority and 1/160s if I remember right. I think it was following some photojournalist's all-purpose settings. It put shutter speed ahead of depth of field to meet the need to freeze ordinary motion (walking and body movements) well enough.
This? [PICTURES BY THE BOOK] | dpexpert
Actually he recommended P mode rather than Tv, with ISO400. But in another column he suggested Tv (S) mode when people encountered motion blur: [OK ? WHO MOVED?] | dpexpert
Your point is good Billk - there is a sort of base line setting that works for most situations.
05-27-2016, 07:35 AM - 1 Like   #45
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It is interesting to read these various background and enhanced descriptions of the F8nBthere concept. Billk's post got me thinking of my mother's old 1920-30s era Brownie box camera. It had 3 aperture settings, but you had to pull out a tab to get the smallest and largest settings, and anybody who had lost the instruction pamphlet probably never did that. I'm guessing the middle aperture you got when the tab was in was about F8! There was only one shutter speed (around 1/80 Sec.), plus time exposure -- again if you pulled out another little tab, which was probably hardly ever done.

That camera took a lot of really great pictures with its own "all-purpose settings." BUT it did require its own Rules-of-Thumb to do that? Yes, it did. You usually wanted the sun behind you, over one of your shoulders, and you needed to tell people not to move while you snapped their picture. Were the chickens skittering around in the barnyard blurry in those pictures? Some of them. You just can't tell some chickens anything!
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