Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
06-20-2016, 06:23 AM   #1
Loyal Site Supporter
Loyal Site Supporter
GlassJunkie's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: St Petersburg
Photos: Albums
Posts: 387
So when, oh when, will we get a new APS-c sensor at 30-36mp based on 4/3 pixel specs?

K-1 looks great, the 50+mp Canon is a dog, all we need now is either a:

50mp Pentax K- anything with a faster chip/ buffer...

or

a 30-36mp APS-c K-3whatever so the birdrs can finally stop buying gear. Heard a rumor of an industrial sensor (basically a 4/3 16mp x2).... Anyone hear about the nexties?

06-20-2016, 06:30 AM   #2
Loyal Site Supporter
Loyal Site Supporter




Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 6,494
I doubt we go past 24MP. That seems to be where Sony is at with APS-C right now with the new A6300 and the Fuji 24MP XT-2. Unless they start using the Samsung BSI 28MP, but with the problems with supply out of Japan I doubt we see anything this year as far as new APS-C sensor technology. I love Olympus m4/3 equipment, but the files just don't hold up as well in challenging light.
06-20-2016, 06:32 AM   #3
Loyal Site Supporter
Loyal Site Supporter




Join Date: Mar 2015
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 6,348
QuoteOriginally posted by GlassJunkie Quote
the 50+mp Canon is a dog
Surprising and disappointing. You'd think they would pour everything they had into getting such a prestige camera right.

QuoteOriginally posted by GlassJunkie Quote
so the birdrs can finally stop buying gear
Technology marches on. Anyone who was frozen in time in 2003 with an *ist-D in their hands and emerged from stasis at the launch of the K-5 might have said the same thing, yet we now have a mid-level camera (K-70) with a 24MP sensor. It's only going to get bigger from here, but my guess will be 2018 and 30-something MP with all the K-1 goodies behind it, and like its bigger full-frame brother it will be cheaper than anyone expected yet will blow Canikon APS-C out of the water.
06-20-2016, 07:28 AM   #4
Pentaxian
D1N0's Avatar

Join Date: May 2012
Location: ---
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 5,903
Sony has to make one first. Samsung has a 28mp aps-c sensor, but I doubt Ricoh will work with Samsung.

06-20-2016, 07:33 AM   #5
Pentaxian
Na Horuk's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Slovenia, probably
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 11,183
QuoteOriginally posted by pathdoc Quote
Surprising and disappointing. You'd think they would pour everything they had into getting such a prestige camera right.
But Canon has had problems a couple times already, even with their flagships. Yes, its a little surprising, but on the other hand.. well, poor Canon.

QuoteOriginally posted by D1N0 Quote
Sony has to make one first. Samsung has a 28mp aps-c sensor, but I doubt Ricoh will work with Samsung.
See, this is where Pentax needs to hit next. Independence from Sony! If the 645Z and K-1 are/were big enough successes, then they can try. There are more and more sensor manufacturers, and for a relatively small production run (Pentax makes way less cameras than, for example, Nikon or Sony) they could meet the demand. Main problems are price, and quality assurance. Pentax seems to only get tech that was already tested by Sony and Nikon. It is difficult to compete for market leader when your hardware is .. half of a generation behind. I guess this is not yet a priority for Ricoh yet
06-20-2016, 07:36 AM   #6
Pentaxian




Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: New York
Posts: 4,562
Even if Ricoh did pair with Samsung, the resolution change from 24->28mp is insignificant. You get around 8% extra pixels in each dimension.
06-20-2016, 07:42 AM   #7
Pentaxian
D1N0's Avatar

Join Date: May 2012
Location: ---
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 5,903
They could pair up with Panasonic for the next Generation organic cmos sensor: Panasonic Unveils Organic CMOS Sensors with Global Shutter and 100x Sensitivity
06-20-2016, 08:10 AM   #8
Loyal Site Supporter
Loyal Site Supporter




Join Date: Mar 2015
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 6,348
QuoteOriginally posted by Na Horuk Quote
Main problems are price, and quality assurance. Pentax seems to only get tech that was already tested by Sony and Nikon.
There are advantages to buying sensors off the shelf, including knowing in advance what the expected results and field reliability are like. Remember that Pentax had to strangle the MZ-D in its cradle at least in part because the Philips sensor wasn't up to snuff. Imagine if that had happened again with the K-1 - Pentax really would have been doomed!

QuoteOriginally posted by D1N0 Quote
They could pair up with Panasonic for the next Generation organic cmos sensor: Panasonic Unveils Organic CMOS Sensors with Global Shutter and 100x Sensitivity
IIRC Panasonic are very heavily invested in micro four-thirds. Doing this would require Panasonic to be willing and able to develop APS-C and/or full-frame sensors to acceptable production standards as regarded quality and reliability. I don't know whether upscaling an M4/3 sensor would bring additional issues, but the further issue is how well it could be adapted to being moved around a lot (SR and Pixel shift).

In addition, much of this seems like tech that's best adapted to mirrorless, especially the global shutter, though I could see ways around that - open the first curtain before the mirror finishes lifting, fire the global shutter for that umpteenth of a second electronically with both curtains wide open, close the second curtain and reset as the mirror is dropping. Your flash sync speed limit then becomes an inbuilt delay before the global shutter can fire, but since this is faster than a human being can react, it may not make much practical difference. For applications requiring precise synchronisation, people are most likely going to use dedicated industrial image-capture systems anyway.

06-20-2016, 08:21 AM   #9
Pentaxian
normhead's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Near Algonquin Park
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 33,664
SO Panasonic is tying their horse to the same Organic sensor wagon that seems to be having a profound negative effect on Canon sensor technology. I'm sure the 51 MP Canon Camera was originally designed to be used with an organic sensor. The announcements just keep coming. But nothing comes to market.

Pentax has a history of shopping price performance on sensors, and while not tied to Sony, Sony has pretty much won that battle. So you can be sure if Organic sensors pan out, and to date I don't even know what the issues are with them, they will make it to Pentax cameras.

Using current technology the Panasonic sensor used in the FZ1000 would produce an 80 MP APS-c sensor, that wouldn't be much use at 400 ISO or higher. So, I'm not hoping for more than 28 MP, with the next APS_c. There's a pretty steady curve using current technology. The smaller the pixel, the worse the performance /ISO ratio is.That flippy back screen would be nice though. And continued improvement tin AF and frame rate would also be appreciated. AT this point if you want a high resolution field camera get a K-1. The APS_c Pentax should do what it doesn't do, action and sports. Like the Nikon D500.

Especially given that it is unclear how many Pentax crop lenses will give you a clean 24 MP image using crop lenses even if they don't give you the full 36 MP. It's quite possible APS-c glass on a K-3 will provide better than K-3 quality 24 MP images using crop glass.

The two remaining advantages to the APS_c sensors is smaller files to process and a faster frame rate.

and

Smaller pixels to provide higher magnification at the expense of high ISO performance.

To my mind, those are the features APS-c should concentrate on. With the price of the K-1, there is no way I can see for APS_c to survive as a sort of K-1 lite.

While concentrating on the above, continued improvement of AF performance should also continue with APS-c, oh ya, and I really want that flippy screen.
06-20-2016, 12:56 PM   #10
Site Supporter
Site Supporter
jpzk's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Québec
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 7,780
QuoteOriginally posted by GlassJunkie Quote
K-1 looks great, the 50+mp Canon is a dog, all we need now is either a:

50mp Pentax K- anything with a faster chip/ buffer...

or

a 30-36mp APS-c K-3whatever so the birdrs can finally stop buying gear. Heard a rumor of an industrial sensor (basically a 4/3 16mp x2).... Anyone hear about the nexties?
24 MP is quite enough already and it would be great to have this sensor size with better high ISO performance. Maybe not achievable?
A welcomed feature would also be "better AF".
06-21-2016, 10:55 AM   #11
Pentaxian
Na Horuk's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Slovenia, probably
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 11,183
Yeah, I think 24MP is quite decent on APSC. I'd rather see they continue to evolve its dynamic range and noise performance, maybe finally give us ISO 50. If the next camera has increased pixel density, I would like to see some more innovation, like non-Bayer array or dual ISO or something. The MP race is getting really boring
06-21-2016, 12:11 PM   #12
Pentaxian
normhead's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Near Algonquin Park
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 33,664
QuoteOriginally posted by Na Horuk Quote
Yeah, I think 24MP is quite decent on APSC. I'd rather see they continue to evolve its dynamic range and noise performance, maybe finally give us ISO 50. If the next camera has increased pixel density, I would like to see some more innovation, like non-Bayer array or dual ISO or something. The MP race is getting really boring
I agree.
I currently think 24 MP is close enough to 36 functionally, to seal the deal. 28 MP would wrap it up and tie the bow, if they were able to improve DR and high ISO performance while doing it. Higher DR and better high ISO noise performance are preferable to 28 MP.

But I really do want, pixel shift, flippy screen, and GPS and wifi.

Last edited by normhead; 06-21-2016 at 12:18 PM.
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
aps-c, pentax news, pentax rumors, sensor
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
When is an APS-C lens not really an APS-C? lightbox Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 17 03-27-2015 07:45 PM
Question So when does PF get a new K-S1 subforum? 6BQ5 Site Suggestions and Help 14 09-29-2014 07:40 PM
What does it mean when a lens is "made for the aps-c sensor" Kurt Euler Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 7 02-01-2014 03:05 PM
When will we see a new DA 28mm? filmamigo Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 17 08-13-2013 03:21 AM
When will we get a REAL Pentax wildlife lens? Aditya Panda Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 29 09-14-2009 05:56 PM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:40 PM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top