Portrait Mode camera

**goatsNdonkey** · 08-06-2016, 06:15 PM

Why not a square sensor, and then one of the options under the Fn button is to choose between full-frame square, portrait masque, or landscape masque?

mee · 08-06-2016, 06:37 PM

haha.. well.. I still value the OVF over EVF. But when the EVF becomes more standard (if ever) I could see a mechanism inside the 'mirror box' where you could actually rotate the sensor by 90 degrees and it would automatically adjust the VF to match the change. That would be great for certain types of photographers.. much more ergonomic than titling the whole body by 90 and hooking ones wrist.

Sandy Hancock · 08-06-2016, 07:08 PM

It's never going to happen.
Buy a grip.

**From1980** · 08-06-2016, 07:37 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Sandy Hancock

t's never going to happen.
Buy a grip.

I like that. Some things are just pointless fantasy and speculation - Get a Grip

mee · 08-06-2016, 08:08 PM

Originally posted by From1980

I like that. Some things are just pointless fantasy and speculation - Get a Grip

haha.. at one point digital cameras and tiny, postage stamped cards with hundreds of gigabytes of data storage space were things of fantasy and speculation too.

Sandy Hancock · 08-06-2016, 11:51 PM

Originally posted by mee

haha.. at one point digital cameras and tiny, postage stamped cards with hundreds of gigabytes of data storage space were things of fantasy and speculation too.

No. Seriously. You're dreaming. This is nothing to do with technological advancements, but basic aesthetic reality vs market forces.

Not even Leica would make one for the five people in the world who would buy one.

Square format, maybe.

pathdoc · 08-07-2016, 03:09 AM

Originally posted by Sandy Hancock

No. Seriously. You're dreaming. This is nothing to do with technological advancements, but basic aesthetic reality vs market forces.

It's also got to do with the fact that yes, the OP's photoshopped portrait-oriented sensor still fits within the image circle of the K mount, but because of the way the internals are packaged around the sensor and also the rear screen, it would require a complete redesign of almost everything to do with the camera. It`s not just as simple as rotating the sensor. You need to reprogram the rotated SR system to behave appropriately for a start, and that's more of a headache than you might give it credit for. Among other things, I'm pretty sure that swinging the sensor around 90 degrees gives different inertial responses in the various planes of motion, which might require a complete redesign of the entire system, mechanical as well as electronic control.

victormeldrew · 08-07-2016, 03:35 AM

Originally posted by mee

haha.. at one point digital cameras and tiny, postage stamped cards with hundreds of gigabytes of data storage space were things of fantasy and speculation too.

Fantasies that millions upon millions of people really wanted to have and would pay good money for, because removing the inconvenience and expensive of buying, processing and developing film felt like an improvement for most photographers - so it's worth risking millions in R&D to create the products. So far, you're clearly in a tiny minority in wanting a camera you don't need to turn around...one that 90%+ of photographers would find more of an inconvenience than a benefit...and so it's very unlikely to be created. For now and the foreseeable future you're going to need to do what all professional portrait-orientation photographers do, and use a grip and spend more time worrying about images and less about technology.

Sandy Hancock · 08-07-2016, 04:58 AM

The length of the mirror would be prohibitive too, so the only solutions would be to either increase the depth of the mirror box (which rules out all our current lenses), or to go chunky mirrorless (and we know how well the K-01 sold).

Getting a grip seems like a much better idea.

**GUB** · 08-07-2016, 05:36 AM

Actually would a portrait crop mode in the K1 be any more difficult than the current crop mode?

Edit - And wouldn't there be potential for a faster flash synchro speed.?

Sandy Hancock · 08-07-2016, 05:46 AM

Originally posted by GUB

Actually would a portrait crop mode in the K1 be any more difficult than the current crop mode?

Apart from the distribution of the AF sensors, probably not.

pathdoc · 08-07-2016, 07:32 AM

Originally posted by GUB

Edit - And wouldn't there be potential for a faster flash synchro speed.?

NO! For the fastest flash sync speed, the shutter has to move parallel to the SHORT axis of the sensor. That's why film SLR cameras switched to a vertical travel shutter when they went from cloth to metal.

If anything, the fact that they managed to push the flash sync speed up to 1/200 with the K-1 gives me hope it will go higher with the next flagship APS-C body.

RonHendriks1966 · 08-07-2016, 07:48 AM

Originally posted by pathdoc

K-1p model, coming soon to a store near you!

For X-mass there will be the K-1p Monochrome for all Black and White portraits.

leekil · 08-07-2016, 10:33 AM

Originally posted by mee

No I'm talking about turning just the sensor 90 degrees haha would make hand holding the camera and viewing a ton easier. But probably only possible on a mirrorless body due to the mirror

such as this.. a graphic aid:

I understood what you were talking about, but I'm saying the using a grip is a pretty good solution, and one that you can actually have and use today.

**goatsNdonkey** · 08-07-2016, 05:14 PM - **1 Like**

The marketing bean counters aren't going to do a lot of things that enthusiasts for their products would like to see, especially if we're talking about something a small group would like to see. So we could say that any aspirational speculation about such things is pointless.

But since this is a discussion forum for persons interested in photography with Pentax and related equipment, and seems to welcome the ideas, experiences, and needs of a wide range of those photographers, it seems to me that this is the place for such speculations, no matter how likely Pentax is ever likely want to act on them.

I don't think I need a portrait mode, or even a grip for making turning the camera for portraits easier, but I DO find it very interesting to imagine what sorts of mechanisms or innovations might be used to make such a portrait mode possible. If done a certain way, such a Portrait Mode might be pretty cool. even if I don't need it. So I say to people who have ideas about how to do it, and how to overcome technical challenges that might be involved, I say -- Keep discussing your ideas! Don't get a grip! Be your gripless selves!

08-06-2016, 07:08 PM	#18
Sandy Hancock Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Adelaide Hills, South Australia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 11,267	It's never going to happen. Buy a grip. Last edited by Sandy Hancock; 08-06-2016 at 11:52 PM.

08-07-2016, 04:58 AM	#24
Sandy Hancock Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Adelaide Hills, South Australia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 11,267	The length of the mirror would be prohibitive too, so the only solutions would be to either increase the depth of the mirror box (which rules out all our current lenses), or to go chunky mirrorless (and we know how well the K-01 sold). Getting a grip seems like a much better idea. Last edited by Sandy Hancock; 08-07-2016 at 06:51 PM.

08-07-2016, 05:36 AM	#25
GUB Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Wanganui Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 5,757	Actually would a portrait crop mode in the K1 be any more difficult than the current crop mode? Edit - And wouldn't there be potential for a faster flash synchro speed.? Last edited by GUB; 08-07-2016 at 05:49 AM.

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08-06-2016, 06:15 PM	#16
goatsNdonkey Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2016 Location: Fulton County, Illinois Posts: 3,727	Why not a square sensor, and then one of the options under the Fn button is to choose between full-frame square, portrait masque, or landscape masque?

08-06-2016, 06:37 PM	#17
mee Veteran Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 7,403 Original Poster	haha.. well.. I still value the OVF over EVF. But when the EVF becomes more standard (if ever) I could see a mechanism inside the 'mirror box' where you could actually rotate the sensor by 90 degrees and it would automatically adjust the VF to match the change. That would be great for certain types of photographers.. much more ergonomic than titling the whole body by 90 and hooking ones wrist.

08-06-2016, 07:37 PM - 1 Like	#19
From1980 Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Essex, Ontario Posts: 682	Originally posted by Sandy Hancock t's never going to happen. Buy a grip. I like that. Some things are just pointless fantasy and speculation - Get a Grip

08-06-2016, 08:08 PM	#20
mee Veteran Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 7,403 Original Poster	Originally posted by From1980 I like that. Some things are just pointless fantasy and speculation - Get a Grip haha.. at one point digital cameras and tiny, postage stamped cards with hundreds of gigabytes of data storage space were things of fantasy and speculation too.

08-06-2016, 11:51 PM	#21
Sandy Hancock Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Adelaide Hills, South Australia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 11,267	Originally posted by mee haha.. at one point digital cameras and tiny, postage stamped cards with hundreds of gigabytes of data storage space were things of fantasy and speculation too. No. Seriously. You're dreaming. This is nothing to do with technological advancements, but basic aesthetic reality vs market forces. Not even Leica would make one for the five people in the world who would buy one. Square format, maybe.

08-07-2016, 03:09 AM	#22
pathdoc Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2015 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,381	Originally posted by Sandy Hancock No. Seriously. You're dreaming. This is nothing to do with technological advancements, but basic aesthetic reality vs market forces. It's also got to do with the fact that yes, the OP's photoshopped portrait-oriented sensor still fits within the image circle of the K mount, but because of the way the internals are packaged around the sensor and also the rear screen, it would require a complete redesign of almost everything to do with the camera. It`s not just as simple as rotating the sensor. You need to reprogram the rotated SR system to behave appropriately for a start, and that's more of a headache than you might give it credit for. Among other things, I'm pretty sure that swinging the sensor around 90 degrees gives different inertial responses in the various planes of motion, which might require a complete redesign of the entire system, mechanical as well as electronic control.

08-07-2016, 03:35 AM	#23
victormeldrew Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: South West UK Photos: Albums Posts: 1,493	Originally posted by mee haha.. at one point digital cameras and tiny, postage stamped cards with hundreds of gigabytes of data storage space were things of fantasy and speculation too. Fantasies that millions upon millions of people really wanted to have and would pay good money for, because removing the inconvenience and expensive of buying, processing and developing film felt like an improvement for most photographers - so it's worth risking millions in R&D to create the products. So far, you're clearly in a tiny minority in wanting a camera you don't need to turn around...one that 90%+ of photographers would find more of an inconvenience than a benefit...and so it's very unlikely to be created. For now and the foreseeable future you're going to need to do what all professional portrait-orientation photographers do, and use a grip and spend more time worrying about images and less about technology.

08-07-2016, 05:46 AM	#26
Sandy Hancock Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Adelaide Hills, South Australia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 11,267	Originally posted by GUB Actually would a portrait crop mode in the K1 be any more difficult than the current crop mode? Apart from the distribution of the AF sensors, probably not.

08-07-2016, 07:32 AM	#27
pathdoc Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2015 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,381	Originally posted by GUB Edit - And wouldn't there be potential for a faster flash synchro speed.? NO! For the fastest flash sync speed, the shutter has to move parallel to the SHORT axis of the sensor. That's why film SLR cameras switched to a vertical travel shutter when they went from cloth to metal. If anything, the fact that they managed to push the flash sync speed up to 1/200 with the K-1 gives me hope it will go higher with the next flagship APS-C body.

08-07-2016, 07:48 AM	#28
RonHendriks1966 Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Photos: Gallery Posts: 9,675	Originally posted by pathdoc K-1p model, coming soon to a store near you! For X-mass there will be the K-1p Monochrome for all Black and White portraits.

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08-07-2016, 10:33 AM	#29
leekil Pentaxian Join Date: May 2016 Photos: Albums Posts: 2,003	Originally posted by mee No I'm talking about turning just the sensor 90 degrees haha would make hand holding the camera and viewing a ton easier. But probably only possible on a mirrorless body due to the mirror such as this.. a graphic aid: I understood what you were talking about, but I'm saying the using a grip is a pretty good solution, and one that you can actually have and use today.

08-07-2016, 05:14 PM - 1 Like	#30
goatsNdonkey Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2016 Location: Fulton County, Illinois Posts: 3,727	The marketing bean counters aren't going to do a lot of things that enthusiasts for their products would like to see, especially if we're talking about something a small group would like to see. So we could say that any aspirational speculation about such things is pointless. But since this is a discussion forum for persons interested in photography with Pentax and related equipment, and seems to welcome the ideas, experiences, and needs of a wide range of those photographers, it seems to me that this is the place for such speculations, no matter how likely Pentax is ever likely want to act on them. I don't think I need a portrait mode, or even a grip for making turning the camera for portraits easier, but I DO find it very interesting to imagine what sorts of mechanisms or innovations might be used to make such a portrait mode possible. If done a certain way, such a Portrait Mode might be pretty cool. even if I don't need it. So I say to people who have ideas about how to do it, and how to overcome technical challenges that might be involved, I say -- Keep discussing your ideas! Don't get a grip! Be your gripless selves!