[interested_observer]

Ok, normally I don't really even watch a TN video. Why I clicked on the link? - I don't have the foggiest idea. I watched it and it did provoke some thoughtfulness with me...

• You Tube

  You Tube

[bwDraco]

The title as written is clickbait.

There's little reason to believe that consumer-grade system cameras (whether SLR or mirrorless) are a dying breed. Sure, most every phone has a camera and many are capable of fantastic output (and I know this firsthand with my Nexus 5X despite a bit of decentering), but there's really no substitute for a large sensor or interchangeable lenses.

What is dying is the dedicated small-sensor compact camera. The only good reason to get one of these cameras these days is for their zoom capability, and they make a lot of trade-offs in doing so. While I do carry a Nikon 30x zoom compact (COOLPIX S9900) with me most of the time I'm on the field, it comes nowhere near the image quality my K-3 II is capable of delivering especially when coupled with good glass. It is also no match for my Nexus 5X in low light because of the very slow (f/3.7-6.4) lens. The small sensor also suffers from low full-well capacity, with a base ISO of 125, and the camera refuses to use shutter speeds faster than 1/1000s in aperture priority mode unless I stop down the lens at least one full stop (which I hate doing because diffraction kills sharpness on these already tiny sensors), making it difficult to capture good images in very bright conditions. I carry it with me as a practice tool (partly for reasons discussed in this thread) and to be sure I always have something other than my phone to take pictures with.

Draco

[wildman]

there's really no substitute for a large sensor or interchangeable lenses.

Isn't that exactly what the guy on the video said?

I think where he gets a bit sloppy logically is that he confuses social networking with "photography".
Because you use an image to convey meaning to another does not necessarily follow that the intent of the image is "photographic". The use of an image in social networking is just chance - it could be a poem or a song or whatever else can be conveyed over the net. The use of an image is arbitrary.

In photography the image is the message. It creates it's own context and is thus self defining.
And that purpose of an image is the problem for giant multinational corporations - that definition of "photography" is not nor ever will be a mass market.

[bwDraco]

I think Nikon is doing a better job coping with this. Nikon has included and marketed image sharing functionality better than the others have, and goes so far as to operate its own photo storage and sharing service called Image Space. If you look at the D3400 and D500, one of the standout features is the ability to continuously stream photos as they are captured to a smartphone for upload to Image Space or other social networking services through an always-on Bluetooth Low Energy link using an app called SnapBridge. Others have not fully understood this trend towards social photography which is making it harder for them to stay competitive.

The clickbait issue lies in the exaggeration of the problem, referring to consumer cameras as a whole (not just small-sensor compact cameras) as "dead" instead of "dying". I'll admit the total available market for consumer cameras is shrinking very fast, but to state that it's a completely non-viable market is stretching the truth.

Draco

[Pioneer]

Obviously you are from some different planet.

In my world I am the ONLY one who uses a camera. One of my grandsons and one of my granddaughters uses a camera...in addition to their smartphone.

I was at my daughter's house today for one of my granddaughter's birthday party. While at the party I am taking pictures with my camera(s). Everyone else was using a phone.

My daughter was complaining that her phone was not working the way she wanted and...wait for it...

...wait for it...

...she wanted to go out and get the new i-Phone when it comes out because of the camera.

Sorry, put the blinders back on. Didn't mean to disturb your sleep.

[biz-engineer]

Not a big deal, Canon , Nikon , Sony, Fuji , Pentax can die, I'll get a Hasselblad, you'll hire me when you want a photo for special occasions when your smart phone does make it. It will be like it was for my grand parents: they did not have a camera, they hired a photographer have a large format camera for weddings and special occasions. I'm glad if consumers go away with their phone joining the mass of crap uploading on social media. Also glad that some people happy with smart phone will not spoil forums like this one.

[Unregistered User 8]

Not a big deal, Canon , Nikon , Sony, Fuji , Pentax can die, I'll get a Hasselblad, you'll hire me when you want a photo for special occasions when your smart phone does make it. It will be like it was for my grand parents: they did not have a camera, they hired a photographer have a large format camera for weddings and special occasions. I'm glad if consumers go away with their phone joining the mass of crap uploading on social media. Also glad that some people happy with smart phone will not spoil forums like this one.

Not a big deal, Canon , Nikon , Sony, Fuji , Pentax can die, I'll get a Hasselblad

Such loyalty biz-engineer. Glad that 99.9% of the members here don't think like that.

[RonHendriks1966]

Nice video with lots of stuff that is important for future camera makers. Investing in apps and software is expensive, so only the larger once can afford to do so, but they are the slow ones to turn.

[planteater]

A low cost approach would be to open up the Wifi API's for existing cameras to app developers. I have Pentax, Canon and Panasonic apps on my phone and all three suck. The video is correct - camera manufacturers haven't got a clue about modern usability best practice.

[Rondec]

The question is which aspect of the market smart phones have hurt. Clearly, they have hurt the compact camera market the most. The only thing compacts have over a cell phone is a little better zoom.

Clearly there are plenty of folks who were never interested in buying an ILC -- they would always shoot with a compact camera or at best a bridge camera. Those folks are mostly just shooting with their cell phones now.

On the other hand, the SLR/mirrorless ILC markets are slowing down too, but for different reasons. It isn't that people are replacing their ILC with a smart phone, but rather that they don't need to replace their ILC as often now. The market has matured to the place that there is no reason to upgrade every new iteration of a camera, or even two. If you own a D5200, why would you go out and buy a D5300 or D5500? I have no idea. As far as I can tell, they have the same sensor, but different frame rates and maybe some differences in connectivity. Certainly not any "have to get" features that would push some to abandon their perfectly good camera to buy a new one.

Clearly there will always be a market for entry level SLRs and mirrorless cameras, it just won't sell in the quantities it did in the past.

[pathdoc]

The title as written is clickbait.

There's little reason to believe that consumer-grade system cameras (whether SLR or mirrorless) are a dying breed. Sure, most every phone has a camera and many are capable of fantastic output (and I know this firsthand with my Nexus 5X despite a bit of decentering), but there's really no substitute for a large sensor or interchangeable lenses.

What is dying is the dedicated small-sensor compact camera. The only good reason to get one of these cameras these days is for their zoom capability, and they make a lot of trade-offs in doing so. While I do carry a Nikon 30x zoom compact (COOLPIX S9900) with me most of the time I'm on the field, it comes nowhere near the image quality my K-3 II is capable of delivering especially when coupled with good glass. It is also no match for my Nexus 5X in low light because of the very slow (f/3.7-6.4) lens. The small sensor also suffers from low full-well capacity, with a base ISO of 125, and the camera refuses to use shutter speeds faster than 1/1000s in aperture priority mode unless I stop down the lens at least one full stop (which I hate doing because diffraction kills sharpness on these already tiny sensors), making it difficult to capture good images in very bright conditions. I carry it with me as a practice tool (partly for reasons discussed in this thread) and to be sure I always have something other than my phone to take pictures with.

Draco

Spot on, in my opinion.

Mind you, Tony Northrup's entire existence is more or less clickbait, and one would be tempted to write a novel in which YouTube developed (pun not intended) an awareness and manifested Tony and Chelsea as some sort of photographic eminence with which to monetise itself. Everything he does is for the monetisation, and if only he would be as frank about it as Ken Rockwell is, I might think better of him.

But yeah, the point and shoot market is hemmed in on all sides - DSLR to the left of them, cellphone cams to the right of them, micro 4/3 in front of them (to paraphrase Tennyson). There isn't that much they offer that some other format doesn't do as well or better IN SOME MEASURE, and the smaller micro 4/3 bodies with all their advantages of a competent and high-quality interchangeable lens system ought to have been the death knell. But while there are P&S cams out there which are roughly the same size as some cellphones while offering a (somewhat) superior suite of image-taking capabilities, and while they continue to turn out better happy-snaps under identical circumstances than the average near-disposable plastic film camera of yore, I guess things will continue to struggle on for a while.

[Simen1]

Tony is right about the de-clicbaited message. Camera manufacturers should take lessons from phone manufacturers about user interface.

- Easy touch user interface (Theta S seems to lead the way) on high resolution screen
- Easy online usage, seamless use with phones
- Allow 3. party apps on their OS
- Updates for a long time
- Prioritize portability (refresh the limited series for FF, make a EVF K-02)

Phone companies should also take lessons from camera manufacturers about sensor size, optics, features, buttons, wheels, ergonomy, lens interchangeability, detatchable flash, hood, and more.

[Ratcheteer]

Tony is right about the de-clicbaited message. Camera manufacturers should take lessons from phone manufacturers.

- Easy touch user interface (Theta S seems to lead the way)
- Easy online usage, seamless use with phones
- Allow 3. party apps on their OS
- Updates for a long time
- Prioritize portability (refresh the limited series for FF, make a EVF K-02)

Samsung had the right idea with the Galaxy NX (basically a aps-c interchangeable lens camera running android with LTE connectivity)

[AYD]

For those of us who enjoy making the picture, instead of being fascinated by what the phone or automatic camera made for us, maybe it true that they will be happy with smartphones and their evolution in photography.
Someday in the future they may shoot landscape, weddings, wildlife and sports using smartphones, but the properties of light are going to have to change or a smartphone is going to have to look like a much bigger camera like a dslr. Maybe smartphones will have software built in that will create DSLR type pictures too, but it won't be a true depiction of reality. As a matter of fact, the people happy with evf's fall in the category of smartphone users, like Tony who think they want to see the exposure simulated in the EVF, I just want to see the scene through a pentaprism, exactly as the lens sees it using an SLR, Digital or Film. I rarely even chimp on the camera screen, with today's cameras and software, you can create a picture any way you want it to look, as long as you get a halfway decent initial expose, that's not very difficult today.
Some people might like sitting in self driving cars, or be driven in an uber, I still like to shift gears with a manual transmission and drive myself where I want to go. So Tony's argument is like saying the manual transmission is dead, or the car industry is dead, is it?

[clackers]

Samsung had the right idea with the Galaxy NX (basically a aps-c interchangeable lens camera running android with LTE connectivity)

A beautiful theory, but not matched by reality ... no one bought them!