Non - Photographers often have bad taste.

jadedrakerider · 09-30-2016, 08:16 PM

Originally posted by clackers

But that's the problem, isn't it, populism or art?

It's a problem if you think it's a problem. I take something like Kubrick's the Shining. He used photography (or cinematography if we are so inclined to quibble) to make us uncomfortable. Kubrick does a much better job at grabbing attention than most of the stuff coming out of Hollywood nowadays. The Shining is certainly an accessible film (in that it uses it's cinematography in a way that is a bit blunt). Kubrick isn't less of an artist because his movie was a commercial success. Those green eyes stick out of the jumble of photos I've seen. That's an accomplishment.

**clackers** · 09-30-2016, 11:41 PM

Originally posted by jadedrakerider

It's a problem if you think it's a problem. I take something like Kubrick's the Shining. He used photography (or cinematography if we are so inclined to quibble) to make us uncomfortable. Kubrick does a much better job at grabbing attention than most of the stuff coming out of Hollywood nowadays. The Shining is certainly an accessible film (in that it uses it's cinematography in a way that is a bit blunt). Kubrick isn't less of an artist because his movie was a commercial success. Those green eyes stick out of the jumble of photos I've seen. That's an accomplishment.

But I think he's a good example of the dilemma.

My favourites of his are Barry Lyndon and Eyes Wide Shut (the cinematography is fantastic in the former - that f0.7 lens!).

Both were box office bombs. 😊

jadedrakerider · 10-01-2016, 12:15 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by clackers

But I think he's a good example of the dilemma.

My favourites of his are ... box office bombs.

And more power to you. I'm just saying that the commercial nature and broad appeal of a piece isn't an actual basis of critique. It's certainly frustrating when artistic garbage is popular -- but being popular doesn't make something artistic garbage.

Incidentally, my other favorite Kubrick film is A Clockwork Orange. ^.^

**Digitalis** · 10-01-2016, 12:31 AM

Originally posted by wildman

Kitsch, by definition, has no "boundaries" (limits) to being tawdry, vulgar, garish and sentimental. That's its raison d'être.

Well that is a colleagues opinion. From my experience the artists individuality (or style) will show up no matter which style or technique they attempt to mask it with.

Racer X 69 · 10-01-2016, 12:39 AM

Kubrick was a genius.

**clackers** · 10-01-2016, 02:15 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Racer X 69

Kubrick was a genius.

Yep, a first-class weirdo, but a genius. His films are so varied - he was no one-trick pony.

wildman · 10-01-2016, 04:08 AM

Originally posted by jadedrakerider

photography (or cinematography if we are so inclined to quibble)

It has always seemed to me that the term "cinematography" has a sort of schizoid meaning.

We speak of "Motion pictures" when cinematography can be and is often either motion or pictures but not, by intention both.

Take a classic BW American film like the Grapes of Wrath or On the Waterfront. You can freeze frame almost anywhere in it, print, frame and hang it on the wall and it's no more a "motion" shot than a Vermeer is.

On the other hand there are many set piece scenes in David Lean's Lawrence of Arabia where he has a clear beginning, middle and a end and if you try to break it apart it loses it's meaning.or at least it's original meaning.

But I digress and I'm getting too deep into the weeds with this....

Last edited by wildman; 10-01-2016 at 09:36 AM.

normhead · 10-01-2016, 04:58 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by wildman

It has always seemed to me that the term "cinematography" has a sort of schizoid meaning.

We speak of "Motion pictures" when cinematography can be and is often either motion or pictures but not, by intention both.

Take a classic BW American film like the Grapes of Wrath or On the Waterfront. You can freeze frame almost anywhere in it, print, frame and hang it on the wall and it's no more a "motion" shot than a Vermeer is.

On the other hand there are many set piece scenes in David Lean's Lawrence of Arabia where they have a clear beginning, middle and a end and if you try to break up it apart it loses it's meaning.or at least it's original meaning.

But I digress and I'm getting too deep into the weeds with this....

You're going to need a periscope soon, just to see where the beer store is.

wildman · 10-01-2016, 06:30 AM

Originally posted by normhead

ou're going to need a periscope soon, just to see where the beer store is.

I'm more of a gin and tonic over crushed ice with a touch of lime type.

normhead · 10-01-2016, 06:51 AM

Originally posted by wildman

I'm more of a gin and tonic over crushed ice with a touch of lime type.

Our beer store is actually an LCBO, Liquor Control Board of Ontario, so it has a few special beers in one little section, most of it would make you happy.

swanlefitte · 10-01-2016, 11:52 AM

Not sure of the liqour stores here but lots of bars are LGBT owned, worked at one.

I haven't seen Empire of the Sun since it came out but I remember thinking every frame was gorgeous. I need to watch it now after learning some photography. Back then i wouldn't even notice crooked horizons in my shots but i noticed something about the cinematography in that movie i thought was better than others. This is at the heart of this threads topic.

awscreo · 10-01-2016, 11:57 AM

A very beautifully shot (and heavily underrated) movie - "Blue Ruin" by Jeremy Saulnier. His new movie Green Room is also shot very well, but I guess gritty nature of the movie might not be for everyone.

---------- Post added 10-01-16 at 12:01 PM ----------

Revenant and Hateful Eight are both gorgeous looking films, latter being shot on 70mm film with use of very old lenses.

**clackers** · 10-02-2016, 04:55 PM

Originally posted by swanlefitte

I haven't seen Empire of the Sun since it came out but I remember thinking every frame was gorgeous. I need to watch it now after learning some photography. Back then i wouldn't even notice crooked horizons in my shots but i noticed something about the cinematography in that movie i thought was better than others. This is at the heart of this threads topic.

Spielberg certainly knows how to hire a good cinematographer.

Here's his current one:

Janusz Kami?ski - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

09-30-2016, 11:41 PM	#77
clackers Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Melbourne Photos: Albums Posts: 16,397	Originally posted by jadedrakerider It's a problem if you think it's a problem. I take something like Kubrick's the Shining. He used photography (or cinematography if we are so inclined to quibble) to make us uncomfortable. Kubrick does a much better job at grabbing attention than most of the stuff coming out of Hollywood nowadays. The Shining is certainly an accessible film (in that it uses it's cinematography in a way that is a bit blunt). Kubrick isn't less of an artist because his movie was a commercial success. Those green eyes stick out of the jumble of photos I've seen. That's an accomplishment. But I think he's a good example of the dilemma. My favourites of his are Barry Lyndon and Eyes Wide Shut (the cinematography is fantastic in the former - that f0.7 lens!). Both were box office bombs. 😊 Last edited by clackers; 10-01-2016 at 12:32 AM.

10-01-2016, 12:15 AM - 1 Like	#78
jadedrakerider Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Mohave Valley, AZ Photos: Gallery Posts: 214	Originally posted by clackers But I think he's a good example of the dilemma. My favourites of his are ... box office bombs. And more power to you. I'm just saying that the commercial nature and broad appeal of a piece isn't an actual basis of critique. It's certainly frustrating when artistic garbage is popular -- but being popular doesn't make something artistic garbage. Incidentally, my other favorite Kubrick film is A Clockwork Orange. ^.^ Last edited by jadedrakerider; 10-01-2016 at 12:21 AM.

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09-30-2016, 08:16 PM	#76
jadedrakerider Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Mohave Valley, AZ Photos: Gallery Posts: 214	Originally posted by clackers But that's the problem, isn't it, populism or art? It's a problem if you think it's a problem. I take something like Kubrick's the Shining. He used photography (or cinematography if we are so inclined to quibble) to make us uncomfortable. Kubrick does a much better job at grabbing attention than most of the stuff coming out of Hollywood nowadays. The Shining is certainly an accessible film (in that it uses it's cinematography in a way that is a bit blunt). Kubrick isn't less of an artist because his movie was a commercial success. Those green eyes stick out of the jumble of photos I've seen. That's an accomplishment.

10-01-2016, 12:31 AM	#79
Digitalis Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Melbourne, Victoria Photos: Gallery Posts: 11,694	Originally posted by wildman Kitsch, by definition, has no "boundaries" (limits) to being tawdry, vulgar, garish and sentimental. That's its raison d'être. Well that is a colleagues opinion. From my experience the artists individuality (or style) will show up no matter which style or technique they attempt to mask it with.

10-01-2016, 12:39 AM	#80
Racer X 69 Moderator Man With A Camera Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: The Great Pacific Northwet, in the Land Between Canada and Mexico Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 28,068	Kubrick was a genius.

10-01-2016, 02:15 AM - 1 Like	#81
clackers Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Melbourne Photos: Albums Posts: 16,397	Originally posted by Racer X 69 Kubrick was a genius. Yep, a first-class weirdo, but a genius. His films are so varied - he was no one-trick pony.

10-01-2016, 04:08 AM	#82
wildman Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Flyover America Posts: 4,469	Originally posted by jadedrakerider photography (or cinematography if we are so inclined to quibble) It has always seemed to me that the term "cinematography" has a sort of schizoid meaning. We speak of "Motion pictures" when cinematography can be and is often either motion or pictures but not, by intention both. Take a classic BW American film like the Grapes of Wrath or On the Waterfront. You can freeze frame almost anywhere in it, print, frame and hang it on the wall and it's no more a "motion" shot than a Vermeer is. On the other hand there are many set piece scenes in David Lean's Lawrence of Arabia where he has a clear beginning, middle and a end and if you try to break it apart it loses it's meaning.or at least it's original meaning. But I digress and I'm getting too deep into the weeds with this.... Last edited by wildman; 10-01-2016 at 09:36 AM.

10-01-2016, 04:58 AM - 1 Like	#83
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,451	Originally posted by wildman It has always seemed to me that the term "cinematography" has a sort of schizoid meaning. We speak of "Motion pictures" when cinematography can be and is often either motion or pictures but not, by intention both. Take a classic BW American film like the Grapes of Wrath or On the Waterfront. You can freeze frame almost anywhere in it, print, frame and hang it on the wall and it's no more a "motion" shot than a Vermeer is. On the other hand there are many set piece scenes in David Lean's Lawrence of Arabia where they have a clear beginning, middle and a end and if you try to break up it apart it loses it's meaning.or at least it's original meaning. But I digress and I'm getting too deep into the weeds with this.... You're going to need a periscope soon, just to see where the beer store is.

10-01-2016, 06:30 AM	#84
wildman Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Flyover America Posts: 4,469	Originally posted by normhead ou're going to need a periscope soon, just to see where the beer store is. I'm more of a gin and tonic over crushed ice with a touch of lime type.

10-01-2016, 06:51 AM	#85
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,451	Originally posted by wildman I'm more of a gin and tonic over crushed ice with a touch of lime type. Our beer store is actually an LCBO, Liquor Control Board of Ontario, so it has a few special beers in one little section, most of it would make you happy.

10-01-2016, 11:52 AM	#86
swanlefitte Pentaxian Join Date: May 2015 Location: Minneapolis Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,068	Not sure of the liqour stores here but lots of bars are LGBT owned, worked at one. I haven't seen Empire of the Sun since it came out but I remember thinking every frame was gorgeous. I need to watch it now after learning some photography. Back then i wouldn't even notice crooked horizons in my shots but i noticed something about the cinematography in that movie i thought was better than others. This is at the heart of this threads topic.

10-01-2016, 11:57 AM	#87
awscreo Veteran Member Join Date: May 2016 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,722	A very beautifully shot (and heavily underrated) movie - "Blue Ruin" by Jeremy Saulnier. His new movie Green Room is also shot very well, but I guess gritty nature of the movie might not be for everyone. ---------- Post added 10-01-16 at 12:01 PM ---------- Revenant and Hateful Eight are both gorgeous looking films, latter being shot on 70mm film with use of very old lenses.

10-02-2016, 04:55 PM	#88
clackers Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Melbourne Photos: Albums Posts: 16,397	Originally posted by swanlefitte I haven't seen Empire of the Sun since it came out but I remember thinking every frame was gorgeous. I need to watch it now after learning some photography. Back then i wouldn't even notice crooked horizons in my shots but i noticed something about the cinematography in that movie i thought was better than others. This is at the heart of this threads topic. Spielberg certainly knows how to hire a good cinematographer. Here's his current one: Janusz Kami?ski - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia