[MarkJerling]

True. Interesting enough, concentration camps and their name were first used in Cuba in the 19th century, then by the British during Second Boer War (1899-1902). Over 26,000 Boers, mostly women and children, died in the British camps. The Nazis obviously took it to an entirely new level, thus the term is now almost exclusively used in the context of the Holocaust.



It's mostly historical, and there doesn't seem to be any disagreement on the subject, so I think we're pretty safe.

By the end of the war, it was reported that 27,927 Boere/Boers (of whom 26,251 were women and children, of which 22,074 were children under 16) had died of starvation, disease and exposure. What is not often mentioned is that as many as 20,000 black people also perished in concentration camps in South Africa at the same time. Both British and Boer forces used black labour and consequently, when Boere/Boers were captured, so were black people.

Much like the US Civil War, the Boer Wars resulted in members of the same family fighting on opposing sides. I have one family member who fought on the side of the British and two who were Boere/Boers and were captured and exiled to Ceylon and India respectively.

It's a fine balance to keep this historical and not venture into political. If it goes political, we'll need to shut it down.

[clackers]

By the end of the war, it was reported that 27,927 Boere/Boers (of whom 26,251 were women and children, of which 22,074 were children under 16) had died of starvation, disease and exposure.

There's always something distasteful about an unnecessary war, and this was one of those.

Cecil Rhodes and Alfred Milner have a lot to answer for.

The best book on the subject I've read is by Thomas Pakenham.

[H. Sapiens]

Well this thread will probably get shut down for being "political"

It is difficult to avoid isn't? It would be almost painful just to reply with a "nice set of images there, John!" as the images deals with a "political" subject (on a very human scale) and the subject is even extremely relevant today. So what to say and do ... ?

[AggieDad]

Great photos!

Regrettably, the term "concentration camps" has acquired a terrible meaning because of the camps run by the Nazis and the Japanese. I'm feel sure that the US did not treat the Japanese inmates in the same way (atrocities) - of course, I could be wrong.

No, we did not commit the same types of atrocities - we committed different ones. Consider that that these folks were given little time to get their affairs in order and then sent away, without recourse, to live in what were little more than tarpaper barracks. Add to that the fact that they typically came from the warm climes of Southern California and ended up in places like Wyoming with totally inappropriate clothing.

The same treatment was not given to Germans in other parts of the country.

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Last edited by MarkJerling; 12-09-2016 at 06:02 PM.

[DeadJohn]

Great photos!

Regrettably, the term "concentration camps" has acquired a terrible meaning because of the camps run by the Nazis and the Japanese. I'm feel sure that the US did not treat the Japanese inmates in the same way (atrocities) - of course, I could be wrong.

There were atrocities in the US camps. It was a smaller scale than Nazi Germany, and genocide wasn't the intent, but torture, murder, and other horrors were committed in the US camps.

[c.a.m]

Not sure whether the OP intended to prompt a discussion on the photographer and the photographs themselves, or to spark a broader discussion on the context of the images or a comparison of the actions taken by the various sides in the conflicts. The latter seems to be way off topic, in my view, and inappropriate for this 'General Photography' section.

Many of the photographs are not controversial if simply considered on their own without context - people waiting for trains or buses, street scenes, etc. The technical quality seems very good, and I don't think we'll hear any comments on 'border sharpness' or film artifacts or the like. Some of us may wonder about the photographer's equipment, but in general, these types of historical photographs are considered more for their imagery.

Any comments on the compositions, lighting, exposures, etc? Or on the nature of this type of documentary photography in a historical sense?

- Craig

[DeadJohn]

^ There's nothing inappropriate IMO discussing the emotions and thoughts caused by the photos and the associated quotes. Lange was doing photojournalism. She would likely appreciate us having this discussion. These photos weren't intended for people to say "nice composition" or "the sky is overexposed; should have used a fast shutter speed".

[AggieDad]

Many of the photographs are not controversial if simply considered on their own without context - people waiting for trains or buses, street scenes, etc. The technical quality seems very good, and I don't think we'll hear any comments on 'border sharpness' or film artifacts or the like. Some of us may wonder about the photographer's equipment, but in general, these types of historical photographs are considered more for their imagery.
- Craig

I think that context is imperative in situations such as this. Not only are many of these photos not controversial without context, they are quite ordinary - in that any of us would barely notice them. The censorship issue only furthers the demand for this type of discussion.

Do you think the discussion should be somewhere other than General Photography? Ask for it to be moved. Although I did not know that the General Photography section was only for discussing technical and artistic values.

But before you request the topic be moved, please consider that in many instances (e.g. Dorothea Lange's photos) the photographs create import and awareness for a story.

Without the photographs (and our government's reaction to them) the understanding of what happened to these people is more difficult to appreciate. In other words, I submit that any discussion we have about this historic action inherently includes the documentation these, and other, photographs provide.

[W.j.christy]

Through history classes both in Highschool and in College, I was made aware of the Japanese internment camps. However, the focus was always on the holocaust and the evils committed there by Hitler and his Military leaders. I spent many hours looking at the available pictures of the holocaust feeling nothing but sheer horror, anger, and disbelief that one man could harbour so much hate that he could do such atrocities to his fellow man. However, there was always very little with regard to the Japanese internment here in the U.S.

Then, I see these pictures, and I can barely distinguish between those pictures of the concentrations camps in Europe, and the ones from here. The emotions captured on the faces of the interred are the same in both locations with the exception that this happened here in my country the U.S.

As a global society we must never forget this chapter in our life or we shall be doomed to repeat it.

I hope that many more people see these photos and understand what they represent, and why it must never happen again.

[AggieDad]

As my high school history teacher was fond of saying, "People, our linen is not clean either." But the winner gets to write history - at least for a while.

[clackers]

Any comments on the compositions, lighting, exposures, etc? Or on the nature of this type of documentary photography in a historical sense?

- Craig

Craig, Lange was one of the giants of our hobby, an activist using photography to promote social change. The cultural and historical contexts of her work are all-important.

She would have been baffled if our only question to her was 'Yes, but what's the vignetting like on that lens wide open, Dorothy?"

[mohb]

and the subject is even extremely relevant today.

They act as a reminder that when people get seen as 'things to be dealt with' then bad things happen.

[gifthorse]

No, we did not commit the same types of atrocities - we committed different ones. Consider that that these folks were given little time to get their affairs in order and then sent away, without recourse, to live in what were little more than tarpaper barracks. Add to that the fact that they typically came from the warm climes of Southern California and ended up in places like Wyoming with totally inappropriate clothing.

The same treatment was not given to Germans in other parts of the country.

At least 11,000 Germans and a smaller number of Italians were interned under Roosevelt's Executive orders 2526 and 2527. No Chinese, Koreans, etc were interned under Executive order 2525. And not all people of Japanese ethnicity were interned. The exclusion zone consisted only of the three west coast states and Arizona and only Japanese from the exclusion zones were interned. The Japanese in the central U.S. and the east coast were not interned. In fact, a number of Japanese were released from the internment camps to attend college in the East. One final note, the Reparations bill specifically excluded Germans or Italians from the reparations.

[arnold]

This is photography and visual storytelling at its most powerful and most thought-provoking. I would hope that the admins would recognize and respect that.

Yes, and photography that doesn't use high technology such as latest lens coatings, auto focus, and more than one frame a second. Or photo shopping out things to make the picture artistic. These pictures will still arise interest long after pretty calendar scenes end up in the recycle bin.

[mee]

No, we did not commit the same types of atrocities - we committed different ones. Consider that that these folks were given little time to get their affairs in order and then sent away, without recourse, to live in what were little more than tarpaper barracks. Add to that the fact that they typically came from the warm climes of Southern California and ended up in places like Wyoming with totally inappropriate clothing.

The same treatment was not given to Germans in other parts of the country.

Germans didn't conduct a surprise attack on the US Pacific fleet, sending most of it to the bottom of the ocean, killing 2400 people, and injuring another 1200.

While the images of the internment camps of Americans of Japanese ethnicity is awful, you have to also think how did non-Japanese Americans think? Their brothers and dads and uncles were slaughtered on December 7th 1941 by people who looked, talked, and held many of the same cultural activities of those that killed their loved ones. So I can see a lot of hysteria and some fear in the US over who is friend and who is foe. They didn't know and weren't going to chance it.

So they took a safe over sorry approach and housed everyone. The sad thing is the accommodations look pitiful, especially for an extended (years) stay. It does look like a prison, because it was a prison of sorts. Then again, the country was fighting a 2 front war and resources were extremely slim.

I sometimes wonder what the world, and specifically our part of it in the US, would look like had we possessed more communication and kindness.

Had the accommodations been a lot more.. accommodating, I think these Americans might possibly have been safer and thus better off in the camps during the war. People do crazy things when they feel threatened. Survival instinct kicks in and logic drops out.

---------- Post added 12-09-16 at 08:39 PM ----------

Btw some of these images are stunning to me.. such as the kids with the flag and some of the portraits. I can see the civility, humanity, and dignity in them... which was likely often dismissed while in these camps (and for a time after the war). A fantastic job was done to document photographically this part of history. However, I dislike the packaging of it on the website though because it is one sided.