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01-28-2017, 06:17 AM - 2 Likes   #1
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X-Trans critique - article

Fuji shooters not going to like this article. He backs up his claims with some convincing images. :

X-Trans: The Promise and the Problem ? Jonathan Moore Liles ? Medium

The original raison d'etre for X-Trans was to defeat moiré (not successfully according to the article above). Given current high resolution sensors, moiré is no longer a concern, even with no AA filter. Apparently there are reasons that Bayer has become the standard.

01-28-2017, 07:01 AM   #2
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ive shot with fuji, both the original bayer sensor of the x100 which i still have, and three different incarnations of xtrans. ive also shot with leica, oly, panny, sony and pentax. xtrans raw files simply do not stand up to any of them. before this artcle the many ways this was true had been well documented--much of the evidence provided by fuji fans. at this point it is honestly beyond dispute. now that doesnt mean that people cannot rightfully decide they either like the xtrans anomolies, dont mind them , or find other factors compensate for them. but at this point, they just cant argue about them being real.

for fuji itself, ive long said xtrans was a massive mistake for one simple reason: many many more people choose against fuji solely because of xtrans than those who choose fuji solely because of xtrans. but like so many including our political leadership, they insist on doubling down on a bad idea instead of just correcting a well intentioned error and moving forward.
01-28-2017, 07:41 AM   #3
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QuoteOriginally posted by audiobomber Quote
X-Trans critique - article
Thank you for the link. It is very informative.

It is ironic because a few of my wedding photographer friends who are long time Canon shooters have started using Fuji bodies and express high level of satisfaction. The main thing I hear from them is how good the color is right out of the camera. Frankly, before Pentax, I shot Canon and as much as the color was not that great, it was adjustable to good levels in post. I think my Pentax cameras have better color than the Canons. I am not sure how much better Fuji color can be vs. Pentax. The only thing I like about the Fuji color story is their presets for Fujifilm simulations. I would love to see and try the Velvia 50 setting. For us old timers, Fuji Velvia was the holy grail of color.
01-28-2017, 07:44 AM   #4
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Well, the array is still periodic, it does not eliminate moire in all situations, but it does eliminate moire when moire would be strong with a bayer array. I mean, that's great for marketing, because you can shot a picture with lot of moire with conventional camera and take the same picture with x-trans and show that there is no moire, so that when Fuji released the camera, it could create a big wow. Then there is real life shooting, but who cares, once you spent the money and Fuji got it, that's done. Anyway, people often select a camera based on unique features that other cameras don't have and then never use the unique features.

01-28-2017, 07:51 AM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
Well, the array is still periodic, it does not eliminate moire in all situations, but it does eliminate moire when moire would be strong with a bayer array. I mean, that's great for marketing, because you can shot a picture with lot of moire with conventional camera and take the same picture with x-trans and show that there is no moire, so that when Fuji released the camera, it could create a big wow. Then there is real life shooting, but who cares, once you spent the money and Fuji got it, that's done. Anyway, people often select a camera based on unique features that other cameras don't have and then never use the unique features.
QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
Anyway, people often select a camera based on unique features that other cameras don't have and then never use the unique features
You are so right. I am one of those guys! I got the K1 last year and I have not used the GPS and barely used the pixel shift feature. These were the two features I wanted so bad. Credit to Pentax, the resolution is so good even without PS, that I don't miss that extra resolution boost.
01-28-2017, 07:57 AM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by btnapa Quote
The main thing I hear from them is how good the color is right out of the camera.
That color thing is a myth. Do 10 manual white balance calibrations and you'll see that colors are never the same, and sometime you don't even want the correct white balance because a non regular white balance delivers a photo that you like better. In other words, the Fuji colors are mostly the result of a mental bias. Add a flash for lighting the seen , and again color mix is different since it depends on the contribution on ambient light source and the white balance of the flash.
01-28-2017, 08:05 AM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
That color thing is a myth. Do 10 manual white balance calibrations and you'll see that colors are never the same, and sometime you don't even want the correct white balance because a non regular white balance delivers a photo that you like better. In other words, the Fuji colors are mostly the result of a mental bias. Add a flash for lighting the seen , and again color mix is different since it depends on the contribution on ambient light source and the white balance of the flash.
You are so right. Color is very subjective. The only thing I can think about the film presets in Fuji is that they have over saturated the colors. That was what Velvia was famous for, saturated, almost surreal color.
01-28-2017, 09:22 AM   #8
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Very interesting and eye-opening...
Besides, moiré is not that great of an issue with high-MP sensors, and can be eliminated quite easily with a couple of brush strokes in PP.
That dull and plaster-like appearance, on the other hand...

01-28-2017, 11:22 AM   #9
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Pentax remains the ONLY company that deals with moiré issues effectively. The only company that allows a choice of no filter or progressive filter.

Look at this, DPR protecting Fuji. Not a surprise. https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/59036058
01-28-2017, 11:33 AM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by audiobomber Quote
Pentax remains the ONLY company that deals with moiré issues effectively. The only company that allows a choice of no filter or progressive filter.

Look at this, DPR protecting Fuji. Not a surprise. X-Trans critique - article: Open Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review
This is the response received to your OP at DPR:
Attached Images
 
01-28-2017, 11:55 AM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by btnapa Quote
You are so right. I am one of those guys! I got the K1 last year and I have not used the GPS and barely used the pixel shift feature. These were the two features I wanted so bad. Credit to Pentax, the resolution is so good even without PS, that I don't miss that extra resolution boost.
I have the gps turned on and the location gets appended to the exif. Works very well and I don't even notice it. Depends on what and where we shoot, but the location is an integral part of the information that I want to preserve.
01-28-2017, 12:55 PM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by derekkite Quote
I have the gps turned on and the location gets appended to the exif. Works very well and I don't even notice it. Depends on what and where we shoot, but the location is an integral part of the information that I want to preserve.
I hear you. I need to do that too. My next shoot is going to have location info too, especially my nature shots. I need to know where I shot a particular image just in case I have to go back for a redo.
01-28-2017, 03:50 PM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by audiobomber Quote
Fuji shooters not going to like this article. He backs up his claims with some convincing images. :

X-Trans: The Promise and the Problem ? Jonathan Moore Liles ? Medium

The original raison d'etre for X-Trans was to defeat moiré (not successfully according to the article above). Given current high resolution sensors, moiré is no longer a concern, even with no AA filter. Apparently there are reasons that Bayer has become the standard.
He backs up his claim with some images that are hand picked to show a problem he is trying to prove exists. I shot Fuji for several years after buying a K5, until Pentax finally came out with an SLR that worked right (the K3). It's possible to make any camera fail, the author of that article proves it.
And yes, you don't really want to shoot Fuji at high ISO in JPEG without massaging the stock settings a lot. Their noise reduction is heavy handed, but it can be reduced to minimal levels.
As always, know your equipment, shoot to it's strengths, and find ways to minimize it's weaknesses.
Mr. Liles needs to take the second "L" out of his name for the sake of honesty. He is an Alternative facts author.
01-28-2017, 04:16 PM   #14
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I think the point is that X Trans is not any better or worse than the Bayer array, just different. The biggest problem is its lack of support and the weird advertising Fuji has used over time to say that their crop cameras are better than their competitors full frame cameras. The question is if X Trans solves any problems (maybe a little bit of moire but that's not a big deal any more), makes life more difficult (X Trans support isn't as wide spread as Bayer), and how much Fuji massages their files beneath their surface to make them look cleaner than competitors.

I don't really like the interface, but otherwise they have nice glass and perform similarly to other APS-C cameras of similar generation.
01-28-2017, 06:47 PM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
I shot Fuji for several years after buying a K5, until Pentax finally came out with an SLR that worked right (the K3). I
What was the improvement of the K-3 over the K-5?
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