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**ffking** · 02-10-2017, 03:24 AM

Originally posted by wildman

Take a look at Flickr - an endless supply of technically accomplished but empty, vapid, soulless snapshots taken with $3000 worth of gear but ultimately - "much ado about nothing". I sometimes get the feeling the "photographer" has been reduced to a machine operator trapped within his gear and unable to respond directly to the scene in front of him other than as a technical problem with, perhaps, a little schmaltz thrown in for good measure. And, I include myself in this as well. It's the great trap of photography - technique is a means, but only a means, to an end and the end is up to you.

I, in turn, couldn't agree more -I've been getting increasingly restless about my pictures being meaningless - carefully framed, thought out, yes, but ultimately empty like 99% of other photographs, as you say. And a lot of that is because we in the first world have made a trap for ourselves where we almost daren't photograph our fellow people for fear of objections - and photographing other people's children could land you in court. (I recently got interested on the ways the mirrored glass on out local swimming pool was reflecting the scene behind me while I was waiting for my wife to come out from a swim- somebody called a security guard because they thought I was photographing children on the other side of the reflective glass. The guard was world-wearily aware that I might just be photographing the building, but I'd be nervous about doing anything like that again.) I've lived and travelled in Africa, on the other hand, where people actively want you to take their pictures and do all sorts of spontaneous group poses (especially children and young people) and everybody enjoys the experience. So I think that many of us in the first world are just afraid to do the work that will really matter, and retreat into wildlife and pretty landscapes or use of models or soft portraits of friends or local characters - which is a terrible shame - photography can be so much more. There have never been more photographs taken, and never fewer that mattered.

leekil · 02-10-2017, 05:02 AM

Originally posted by wildman

This was a real challenge. Much was burned out and took a lot of PP to make some sense out of it. I think the DR of the scene was way beyond the emulsion of the time (Plus X or equivalent perhaps?).
While working on it in Photoshop the thought occurred to me that I'm probably better off with a digital copy of the neg and Photoshop then the original nitrate with chemicals. I guess that's some kind of progress.
Anyway it was a real beast to tame at least on my monitors - I don't have a clue how this will look on yours.

What do you mean by this? Are you comparing it to the print version? The negative had plenty of detail, which I think was evident at the time of developing it; I think that Jack Delano was going for a different emphasis than you were with his version:

wildman · 02-10-2017, 06:45 AM

Originally posted by leekil

What do you mean by this? Are you comparing it to the print version? The negative had plenty of detail, which I think was evident at the time of developing it; I think that Jack Delano was going for a different emphasis than you were with his version:

I used the (46.5mb) 8d24901a.tif file - "digital file from original neg.".
I just ran it through PP as I would any other file.
So far as the original intention of an image 75 years old taken by a photographer dead these 20 years reasonable people my differ but I do know I don't have a clue.

The file I worked with resized but with no PP -

**Kerrowdown** · 02-10-2017, 02:06 PM

Originally posted by wildman

Dorothea Lange and the "Migrant Mother" back story.

Thanks for that... I'd never realised that the iconic image was part of series.

wildman · 02-10-2017, 02:33 PM

Originally posted by Kerrowdown

Thanks for that... I'd never realised that the iconic image was part of series.

You are welcome.
I'm a bit surprised at how well known the Migrant Mother is throughout the entire English speaking world.
Some images just transcend narrow nationalism I guess. Florence has become a sort of a Madonna of poverty and suffering.

normhead · 02-10-2017, 02:33 PM

The detail in those 4x5 prints is still amazing.

**arnold** · 02-10-2017, 05:16 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by wildman

I sometimes get the feeling the "photographer" has been reduced to a machine operator trapped within his gear and unable to respond directly to the scene in front of him other than as a technical problem with, perhaps, a little schmaltz and/or kitsch thrown in for good measure. And, I include myself in this as well. It's the great trap of photography - technique is a means, but only a means, to an end and the end is ultimately the sole responsibility of the photographer.

This pretty much reflects my assessment. Trying to pin down what makes an image have impact is not easy. It seems that those pictures that capture not just the visual, but the emotion and mood, along with the attitudes of that moment, that stir us. The Plantation Owner, hits one immediately with the interplay of relationships. One doesn't need to ask who the boss is, or if the workers are servile.

mee · 02-10-2017, 05:41 PM

Did he get a signed release form from her and each of the children?

leekil · 02-10-2017, 10:42 PM

Originally posted by mee

Did he get a signed release form from her and each of the children?

If you read some of the posted links, Thompson claims that Lange said that the pictures would not be published anywhere -- but one appeared in a newspaper the next day -- so there were some bad feelings there, at least for a while.

mee · 02-11-2017, 10:25 AM

Originally posted by leekil

If you read some of the posted links, Thompson claims that Lange said that the pictures would not be published anywhere -- but one appeared in a newspaper the next day -- so there were some bad feelings there, at least for a while.

I was joking.

This, the afgan girl, and ansel adams are pretty much the only things heard of in the news... well maybe the Cartier-Bresson puddle photo too... when it comes to photography.

wildman · 02-11-2017, 04:16 PM - **1 Like**

On of my personal favorites. Simple, clear and direct. In this shot it's easy to see Lange was once a society photographer.
A man and his beloved son.

Title: 1936 drought refugee from Polk, Missouri. Awaiting the opening of orange picking season at Porterville, California
Creator(s): Lange, Dorothea, photographer
Date Created/Published: 1936 Nov.
Medium: 1 negative : nitrate ; 4 x 5 inches or smaller.

leekil · 02-12-2017, 02:13 AM

Originally posted by mee

I was joking.

I know you were, but ironically there was a permission conflict.

02-10-2017, 05:02 AM	#17
leekil Pentaxian Join Date: May 2016 Photos: Albums Posts: 2,003	Originally posted by wildman This was a real challenge. Much was burned out and took a lot of PP to make some sense out of it. I think the DR of the scene was way beyond the emulsion of the time (Plus X or equivalent perhaps?). While working on it in Photoshop the thought occurred to me that I'm probably better off with a digital copy of the neg and Photoshop then the original nitrate with chemicals. I guess that's some kind of progress. Anyway it was a real beast to tame at least on my monitors - I don't have a clue how this will look on yours. What do you mean by this? Are you comparing it to the print version? The negative had plenty of detail, which I think was evident at the time of developing it; I think that Jack Delano was going for a different emphasis than you were with his version: Last edited by leekil; 02-10-2017 at 05:02 AM. Reason: Fixed image link

02-10-2017, 06:45 AM	#18
wildman Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Flyover America Posts: 4,469 Original Poster	Originally posted by leekil What do you mean by this? Are you comparing it to the print version? The negative had plenty of detail, which I think was evident at the time of developing it; I think that Jack Delano was going for a different emphasis than you were with his version: I used the (46.5mb) 8d24901a.tif file - "digital file from original neg.". I just ran it through PP as I would any other file. So far as the original intention of an image 75 years old taken by a photographer dead these 20 years reasonable people my differ but I do know I don't have a clue. The file I worked with resized but with no PP - Last edited by wildman; 02-17-2017 at 05:01 AM.

02-10-2017, 02:33 PM	#20
wildman Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Flyover America Posts: 4,469 Original Poster	Originally posted by Kerrowdown Thanks for that... I'd never realised that the iconic image was part of series. You are welcome. I'm a bit surprised at how well known the Migrant Mother is throughout the entire English speaking world. Some images just transcend narrow nationalism I guess. Florence has become a sort of a Madonna of poverty and suffering. Last edited by wildman; 02-10-2017 at 02:39 PM.

02-11-2017, 04:16 PM - 1 Like	#26
wildman Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Flyover America Posts: 4,469 Original Poster	On of my personal favorites. Simple, clear and direct. In this shot it's easy to see Lange was once a society photographer. A man and his beloved son. Title: 1936 drought refugee from Polk, Missouri. Awaiting the opening of orange picking season at Porterville, California Creator(s): Lange, Dorothea, photographer Date Created/Published: 1936 Nov. Medium: 1 negative : nitrate ; 4 x 5 inches or smaller. Last edited by wildman; 02-17-2017 at 05:01 AM.

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02-10-2017, 03:24 AM	#16
ffking Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2015 Location: Old South Wales Posts: 6,039	Originally posted by wildman Take a look at Flickr - an endless supply of technically accomplished but empty, vapid, soulless snapshots taken with $3000 worth of gear but ultimately - "much ado about nothing". I sometimes get the feeling the "photographer" has been reduced to a machine operator trapped within his gear and unable to respond directly to the scene in front of him other than as a technical problem with, perhaps, a little schmaltz thrown in for good measure. And, I include myself in this as well. It's the great trap of photography - technique is a means, but only a means, to an end and the end is up to you. I, in turn, couldn't agree more -I've been getting increasingly restless about my pictures being meaningless - carefully framed, thought out, yes, but ultimately empty like 99% of other photographs, as you say. And a lot of that is because we in the first world have made a trap for ourselves where we almost daren't photograph our fellow people for fear of objections - and photographing other people's children could land you in court. (I recently got interested on the ways the mirrored glass on out local swimming pool was reflecting the scene behind me while I was waiting for my wife to come out from a swim- somebody called a security guard because they thought I was photographing children on the other side of the reflective glass. The guard was world-wearily aware that I might just be photographing the building, but I'd be nervous about doing anything like that again.) I've lived and travelled in Africa, on the other hand, where people actively want you to take their pictures and do all sorts of spontaneous group poses (especially children and young people) and everybody enjoys the experience. So I think that many of us in the first world are just afraid to do the work that will really matter, and retreat into wildlife and pretty landscapes or use of models or soft portraits of friends or local characters - which is a terrible shame - photography can be so much more. There have never been more photographs taken, and never fewer that mattered.

02-10-2017, 02:06 PM	#19
Kerrowdown PEG Moderator Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Highlands of Scotland... "Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand" - William Blake Photos: Gallery Posts: 57,867	Originally posted by wildman Dorothea Lange and the "Migrant Mother" back story. Thanks for that... I'd never realised that the iconic image was part of series.

02-10-2017, 02:33 PM	#21
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,451	The detail in those 4x5 prints is still amazing.

02-10-2017, 05:16 PM - 1 Like	#22
arnold Site Supporter Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Queensland Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,299	Originally posted by wildman I sometimes get the feeling the "photographer" has been reduced to a machine operator trapped within his gear and unable to respond directly to the scene in front of him other than as a technical problem with, perhaps, a little schmaltz and/or kitsch thrown in for good measure. And, I include myself in this as well. It's the great trap of photography - technique is a means, but only a means, to an end and the end is ultimately the sole responsibility of the photographer. This pretty much reflects my assessment. Trying to pin down what makes an image have impact is not easy. It seems that those pictures that capture not just the visual, but the emotion and mood, along with the attitudes of that moment, that stir us. The Plantation Owner, hits one immediately with the interplay of relationships. One doesn't need to ask who the boss is, or if the workers are servile.

02-10-2017, 05:41 PM	#23
mee Veteran Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 7,403	Did he get a signed release form from her and each of the children?

02-10-2017, 10:42 PM	#24
leekil Pentaxian Join Date: May 2016 Photos: Albums Posts: 2,003	Originally posted by mee Did he get a signed release form from her and each of the children? If you read some of the posted links, Thompson claims that Lange said that the pictures would not be published anywhere -- but one appeared in a newspaper the next day -- so there were some bad feelings there, at least for a while.

02-11-2017, 10:25 AM	#25
mee Veteran Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 7,403	Originally posted by leekil If you read some of the posted links, Thompson claims that Lange said that the pictures would not be published anywhere -- but one appeared in a newspaper the next day -- so there were some bad feelings there, at least for a while. I was joking. This, the afgan girl, and ansel adams are pretty much the only things heard of in the news... well maybe the Cartier-Bresson puddle photo too... when it comes to photography.

02-12-2017, 02:13 AM	#27
leekil Pentaxian Join Date: May 2016 Photos: Albums Posts: 2,003	Originally posted by mee I was joking. I know you were, but ironically there was a permission conflict.