Question about a friends photo

bigdavephoto · 04-13-2017, 10:48 AM

Here is what is going on. A friend of mine has posted a photo he took in Japan two years ago in another forum (not photography related.) He took the photo as a RAW file and that is about all I know. I do not know what camera system he is using but the point of his post is bringing the color of the blossoms back to what he remember them looking like. He has stated that when he took the photo, the blossoms were a light pink but in the RAW they showed up as white.

I told him that if he was shooting in raw, if the flowers were pink, they should have been pink in the raw file. Am I wrong in this assumption? I also told him that I think the white balance needs to be adjusted in his camera if the flowers were pink with the naked eye but looked white in the raw file. He replied back to me that the "white balance is working correctly because the flowers were white and the bricks were gray. If the white balance was off, they would have been yellow or blue."

Now I am not the sharpest tool in the shed but I do know that when you take a picture of a flower that is light pink and in the photo, they come out white, either the white balance is off or the exposure is off and you blew out the highlights. His photo looked like the exposure is correct so that is why I leaned towards the white balance.

What do you think?

**mattt** · 04-13-2017, 11:10 AM

Raw files are flat. Contrast and saturation are development tools that could being pinkness back to the blossoms. Also white balance could effect the appearances of blossoms. Your assertion that the RAW should show pink in the blossoms is not entirely correct (you should see what I can do with a sunset sky that 'appears' white in a RAW file)

Also your friends experience does not even bring into consideration the fact our minds eye is not accurate in its recollection of details.

enoeske · 04-13-2017, 11:23 AM

Originally posted by bigdavephoto

Here is what is going on. A friend of mine has posted a photo he took in Japan two years ago in another forum (not photography related.) He took the photo as a RAW file and that is about all I know. I do not know what camera system he is using but the point of his post is bringing the color of the blossoms back to what he remember them looking like. He has stated that when he took the photo, the blossoms were a light pink but in the RAW they showed up as white.

I told him that if he was shooting in raw, if the flowers were pink, they should have been pink in the raw file. Am I wrong in this assumption? I also told him that I think the white balance needs to be adjusted in his camera if the flowers were pink with the naked eye but looked white in the raw file. He replied back to me that the "white balance is working correctly because the flowers were white and the bricks were gray. If the white balance was off, they would have been yellow or blue."

Now I am not the sharpest tool in the shed but I do know that when you take a picture of a flower that is light pink and in the photo, they come out white, either the white balance is off or the exposure is off and you blew out the highlights. His photo looked like the exposure is correct so that is why I leaned towards the white balance.

What do you think?

He overexposed the pedals. The rest of the scene may look good, but if the subject of the photo was the pink pedals, then he should expose correctly for them.

bigdavephoto · 04-13-2017, 11:25 AM

Originally posted by mattt

Raw files are flat. Contrast and saturation are development tools that could being pinkness back to the blossoms. Also white balance could effect the appearances of blossoms. Your assertion that the RAW should show pink in the blossoms is not entirely correct (you should see what I can do with a sunset sky that 'appears' white in a RAW file)

Also your friends experience does not even bring into consideration the fact our minds eye is not accurate in its recollection of details.

I know that raw files are flat and need adjusted. The main object of his post was that he had to move the saturation slider a good ways just to make the flowers look light pink again but at the same time, he over saturated the rest of the photo.

I also was wondering if it was an optical illusion that maybe, the cherry blossoms higher up in the trees had a little more pink in them and the lower ones were white but the way the light filtered threw the upper flowers, it was causing the lower flowers to also be pink when they were not.

**UncleVanya** · 04-13-2017, 11:45 AM

White balance only applies to the rendering of the output. The captured data isn't changed. You can manipulate white balance as much as you want in raw.

So if you get the file that can be tweaked. Subtle curves and adjustments may also bring the pink back of indeed it was there.

**clackers** · 04-13-2017, 12:02 PM

You'll be able to see by the histogram in software if he blew the exposure or not.

bigdavephoto · 04-13-2017, 12:26 PM

Originally posted by clackers

You'll be able to see by the histogram in software if he blew the exposure or not.

I do not have access to his actual raw file, just a Jpeg copy that he posted. As far as I can tell looking at his photo, there is a building in the background that might be overexposed. Not by much though.

BrianR · 04-13-2017, 12:27 PM

White balance is more than yellow and blue...

It's hard to say without seeing the raw file or even the photo, but there could be a few things off. Subtle and pale colours can easily get mashed by a poor profile, or even a slight overexposure can wash them out. If he's processing this photo now from his memory two years ago, that's another sketchy connection if he hoped to match the real colour in some objective way (note that there's no need to match reality

).

DeadJohn · 04-13-2017, 12:36 PM

Originally posted by bigdavephoto

...The main object of his post was that he had to move the saturation slider a good ways just to make the flowers look light pink again but at the same time, he over saturated the rest of the photo...

If the saturation slider brings the pink back then it's not a case of irrecoverable overexposure. Colors related to red, such as pink, are a frequent trigger for extra software processing. Sensors are sensitive to invisible IR light, so there's usually an IR Cut filter in front of the sensor. The exact cutoff point of the filter can skew the way some reds look.

A little bit of work with processing software should be able to fix that. Using Lightroom as an example, I would first try to reduce the highlight slider. If that doesn't fix it, the HSL (hue, saturation, luminance) panel would be my next stop. Increase only red/magenta saturation, or decrease their luminance.

leekil · 04-13-2017, 12:37 PM - **1 Like**

Perhaps he left his hard drive in the sun, and the photo faded.

Or maybe he just misremembered.

35mmfilmfan · 04-13-2017, 12:44 PM

Originally posted by leekil

Perhaps he left his hard drive in the sun, and the photo faded.

I know that used to happen with ZIP drives - hasn't realised it applied to hard drives as well. First thing Saturday, I'm off to get some ultra-violet protective film for the windows - can't be too careful.

SpecialK · 04-13-2017, 12:45 PM - **1 Like**

Perhaps you could post the photo.

Steve.Ledger · 04-13-2017, 01:44 PM

This thread would be much more useful with the actual photo in question.

johnyates · 04-13-2017, 02:12 PM

Originally posted by bigdavephoto

when you take a picture of a flower that is light pink and in the photo, they come out white

Evidently he did not properly 'develop' the RAW file.

**clackers** · 04-13-2017, 02:28 PM

Originally posted by bigdavephoto

I do not have access to his actual raw file, just a Jpeg copy that he posted. As far as I can tell looking at his photo, there is a building in the background that might be overexposed. Not by much though.

You have to look at the histogram, Dave. One of the channels (like the red one) could be overexposed, altering the colours and destroying detail.

04-13-2017, 10:48 AM	#1
bigdavephoto Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: East central Indiana Photos: Gallery Posts: 893	Question about a friends photo Here is what is going on. A friend of mine has posted a photo he took in Japan two years ago in another forum (not photography related.) He took the photo as a RAW file and that is about all I know. I do not know what camera system he is using but the point of his post is bringing the color of the blossoms back to what he remember them looking like. He has stated that when he took the photo, the blossoms were a light pink but in the RAW they showed up as white. I told him that if he was shooting in raw, if the flowers were pink, they should have been pink in the raw file. Am I wrong in this assumption? I also told him that I think the white balance needs to be adjusted in his camera if the flowers were pink with the naked eye but looked white in the raw file. He replied back to me that the "white balance is working correctly because the flowers were white and the bricks were gray. If the white balance was off, they would have been yellow or blue." Now I am not the sharpest tool in the shed but I do know that when you take a picture of a flower that is light pink and in the photo, they come out white, either the white balance is off or the exposure is off and you blew out the highlights. His photo looked like the exposure is correct so that is why I leaned towards the white balance. What do you think?

04-13-2017, 12:27 PM	#8
BrianR Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Ontario Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,332	White balance is more than yellow and blue... It's hard to say without seeing the raw file or even the photo, but there could be a few things off. Subtle and pale colours can easily get mashed by a poor profile, or even a slight overexposure can wash them out. If he's processing this photo now from his memory two years ago, that's another sketchy connection if he hoped to match the real colour in some objective way (note that there's no need to match reality).

04-13-2017, 12:36 PM	#9
DeadJohn Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: New York Posts: 4,833	Originally posted by bigdavephoto ...The main object of his post was that he had to move the saturation slider a good ways just to make the flowers look light pink again but at the same time, he over saturated the rest of the photo... If the saturation slider brings the pink back then it's not a case of irrecoverable overexposure. Colors related to red, such as pink, are a frequent trigger for extra software processing. Sensors are sensitive to invisible IR light, so there's usually an IR Cut filter in front of the sensor. The exact cutoff point of the filter can skew the way some reds look. A little bit of work with processing software should be able to fix that. Using Lightroom as an example, I would first try to reduce the highlight slider. If that doesn't fix it, the HSL (hue, saturation, luminance) panel would be my next stop. Increase only red/magenta saturation, or decrease their luminance. Last edited by DeadJohn; 04-13-2017 at 12:38 PM. Reason: grammar

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04-13-2017, 11:10 AM	#2
mattt Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Niagara Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,907	Raw files are flat. Contrast and saturation are development tools that could being pinkness back to the blossoms. Also white balance could effect the appearances of blossoms. Your assertion that the RAW should show pink in the blossoms is not entirely correct (you should see what I can do with a sunset sky that 'appears' white in a RAW file) Also your friends experience does not even bring into consideration the fact our minds eye is not accurate in its recollection of details.

04-13-2017, 11:23 AM	#3
enoeske Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Surprise, Az Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,136	Originally posted by bigdavephoto Here is what is going on. A friend of mine has posted a photo he took in Japan two years ago in another forum (not photography related.) He took the photo as a RAW file and that is about all I know. I do not know what camera system he is using but the point of his post is bringing the color of the blossoms back to what he remember them looking like. He has stated that when he took the photo, the blossoms were a light pink but in the RAW they showed up as white. I told him that if he was shooting in raw, if the flowers were pink, they should have been pink in the raw file. Am I wrong in this assumption? I also told him that I think the white balance needs to be adjusted in his camera if the flowers were pink with the naked eye but looked white in the raw file. He replied back to me that the "white balance is working correctly because the flowers were white and the bricks were gray. If the white balance was off, they would have been yellow or blue." Now I am not the sharpest tool in the shed but I do know that when you take a picture of a flower that is light pink and in the photo, they come out white, either the white balance is off or the exposure is off and you blew out the highlights. His photo looked like the exposure is correct so that is why I leaned towards the white balance. What do you think? He overexposed the pedals. The rest of the scene may look good, but if the subject of the photo was the pink pedals, then he should expose correctly for them.

04-13-2017, 11:25 AM	#4
bigdavephoto Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: East central Indiana Photos: Gallery Posts: 893 Original Poster	Originally posted by mattt Raw files are flat. Contrast and saturation are development tools that could being pinkness back to the blossoms. Also white balance could effect the appearances of blossoms. Your assertion that the RAW should show pink in the blossoms is not entirely correct (you should see what I can do with a sunset sky that 'appears' white in a RAW file) Also your friends experience does not even bring into consideration the fact our minds eye is not accurate in its recollection of details. I know that raw files are flat and need adjusted. The main object of his post was that he had to move the saturation slider a good ways just to make the flowers look light pink again but at the same time, he over saturated the rest of the photo. I also was wondering if it was an optical illusion that maybe, the cherry blossoms higher up in the trees had a little more pink in them and the lower ones were white but the way the light filtered threw the upper flowers, it was causing the lower flowers to also be pink when they were not.

04-13-2017, 11:45 AM	#5
UncleVanya Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2014 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 28,401	White balance only applies to the rendering of the output. The captured data isn't changed. You can manipulate white balance as much as you want in raw. So if you get the file that can be tweaked. Subtle curves and adjustments may also bring the pink back of indeed it was there.

04-13-2017, 12:02 PM	#6
clackers Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Melbourne Photos: Albums Posts: 16,397	You'll be able to see by the histogram in software if he blew the exposure or not.

04-13-2017, 12:26 PM	#7
bigdavephoto Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: East central Indiana Photos: Gallery Posts: 893 Original Poster	Originally posted by clackers You'll be able to see by the histogram in software if he blew the exposure or not. I do not have access to his actual raw file, just a Jpeg copy that he posted. As far as I can tell looking at his photo, there is a building in the background that might be overexposed. Not by much though.

04-13-2017, 12:37 PM - 1 Like	#10
leekil Pentaxian Join Date: May 2016 Photos: Albums Posts: 2,003	Perhaps he left his hard drive in the sun, and the photo faded. Or maybe he just misremembered.

04-13-2017, 12:44 PM	#11
35mmfilmfan Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2016 Location: Norfolk, UK Posts: 4,329	Originally posted by leekil Perhaps he left his hard drive in the sun, and the photo faded. I know that used to happen with ZIP drives - hasn't realised it applied to hard drives as well. First thing Saturday, I'm off to get some ultra-violet protective film for the windows - can't be too careful.

04-13-2017, 12:45 PM - 1 Like	#12
SpecialK Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: So California Photos: Gallery Posts: 16,480	Perhaps you could post the photo.

04-13-2017, 01:44 PM	#13
Steve.Ledger Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Far North Qld Posts: 3,301	This thread would be much more useful with the actual photo in question.

04-13-2017, 02:12 PM	#14
johnyates Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Saskatoon, SK Photos: Albums Posts: 1,345	Originally posted by bigdavephoto when you take a picture of a flower that is light pink and in the photo, they come out white Evidently he did not properly 'develop' the RAW file.

04-13-2017, 02:28 PM	#15
clackers Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Melbourne Photos: Albums Posts: 16,397	Originally posted by bigdavephoto I do not have access to his actual raw file, just a Jpeg copy that he posted. As far as I can tell looking at his photo, there is a building in the background that might be overexposed. Not by much though. You have to look at the histogram, Dave. One of the channels (like the red one) could be overexposed, altering the colours and destroying detail.