Process or product?

automorphism · 06-03-2017, 09:06 PM

I think the most important part of photography is the end product, which is the subject, composition and lighting. To that end any feature that makes getting to that point easier is great. Fast burst rate and super high ISO don't contribute to the creativity of the picture. I'd love to be able to shoot at 12800 ISO and have the same detail and smoothness that my camera currently gets at ISO 800. Of course, that doesn't mean that I'd pay 3000 to get it!

**monochrome** · 06-03-2017, 10:01 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by mohb

Does your heart beat faster at the thought of the Sony A9 enabling you to take 20fps using an untold number of AF points at 1/32,000 at ISO 204,000 and therefore capture the ultimate picture of a bee in flight? Or are you like me and quite happy to use an old and battered K50 with an even older 100 macro lens and wait until the bee settles and take a few shots and repeat the process till either the bee flies off or I have to go home?

I only ask because in all the verbiage spouted over the A9 the concept of the process we go through got submerged beneath the ability of the technology to do it all for us.

I just got back from a conference where I learned that my company has developed an AI algorithm to write financial analysis on money managers using a market data stream without human intervention. They're using machine learning to refine the output for accuracy and consistency. The goal is to avoid the human styles and biases that distinguish individual analysts so the reports can dispassionately and accurately compare and contrast different money managers, and can be delivered real-time.

Analysts, understandably, are conflicted about this technology.

pathdoc · 06-05-2017, 08:08 AM - **1 Like**

It depends. Am I taking an "art" photo for some local town council's competition, with nothing at stake but the fun of shooting, developing and printing? Or am I a hard-core entomologist who wants to study the aerodynamics of various insect species in flight and compare/contrast how they get stuff done? If it's the former, I'm happy to bring even an S1a to the party; if it's the latter, I don't want to spend years perfecting my photographic craft; I want to capture those images in the field with the greatest possible ease in the shortest possible time, so I can get back into the lab and see what I can deduce from the images... so bring on all the tricks in the book.

Somewhere in between lies that subjective fog in which the individuality of the photographer, their needs and wants, etc. combine.

Originally posted by 35mmfilmfan

Exterminating the human race - practically inevitable, and good for the planet.

You view the extermination of humanity as good for the planet? You disgust me. Boriscleto'd forever.

35mmfilmfan · 06-05-2017, 11:58 PM - **2 Likes**

Originally posted by pathdoc

Originally posted by 35mmfilmfan
Exterminating the human race - practically inevitable, and good for the planet.
You view the extermination of humanity as good for the planet? You disgust me. Boriscleto'd forever.

I was merely pointing out the unpalatable (to some) truth that in general the human race has had a deleterious effect on the planet, and that it is biologically irrelevant, as it forms no major part of any species foodchain, other than the microscopic. This is, however, probably not the most appropriate forum for this discussion - and at least my comment caused a reaction.

wildman · 06-06-2017, 08:40 AM - **3 Likes**

Originally posted by 35mmfilmfan

I was merely pointing out the unpalatable (to some) truth that in general the human race has had a deleterious effect on the planet, and that it is biologically irrelevant, as it forms no major part of any species foodchain, other than the microscopic.

Speaking only for myself I took no offense at what you were getting at - the natural laws that govern who and what ultimately prevails on the planet are not artifacts of human culture and morality, but the basic underlying reality for all of us whether a virus or a Donald Trump.

At the present primitive state of human culture I would guess the virus will prevail.

pathdoc · 06-08-2017, 08:24 AM

Originally posted by wildman

At the present primitive state of human culture I would guess the virus will prevail.

Primitive? Sorry, no. Some of us, maybe, but going into detail would only get my post killed.

And while we're at it, you just joined my "B" list. Goodbye.

wildman · 06-08-2017, 08:33 AM

Originally posted by pathdoc

And while we're at it, you just joined my "B" list. Goodbye.

On that, at least, it would seem we are both of one mind.

Last edited by wildman; 06-08-2017 at 06:23 PM.

35mmfilmfan · 06-08-2017, 03:27 PM

Originally posted by pathdoc

And while we're at it, you just joined my "B" list.

What exactly is a 'B' list ? And, if I'm not on it, may I join ? I prefer discussions based on fact, not dogma and emotion.

timb64 · 06-08-2017, 03:58 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by 35mmfilmfan

What exactly is a 'B' list ? And, if I'm not on it, may I join ? I prefer discussions based on fact, not dogma and emotion.

I think he means his "ignore list",I may already be on it and wear it as a badge of honour!

pathdoc · 06-08-2017, 04:16 PM

Originally posted by timb64

I think he means his "ignore list",I may already be on it and wear it as a badge of honour!

Would you like me to put you back on? That can easily be arranged.

35mmfilmfan · 06-08-2017, 04:25 PM - **3 Likes**

Originally posted by timb64

I think he means his "ignore list",I may already be on it and wear it as a badge of honour!

I must say he ignores us very noisily.

timb64 · 06-08-2017, 04:32 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by pathdoc

Would you like me to put you back on? That can easily be arranged.

Ooh,yes please

pathdoc · 06-08-2017, 04:38 PM

Originally posted by timb64

Ooh,yes please

Done!

timb64 · 06-08-2017, 04:39 PM

Originally posted by pathdoc

Done!

I would say,thanks,but it would obviously be wasted on you

wildman · 06-09-2017, 09:12 AM

DSLR's, Pentax, the camera industry, the capitalist global market system, man and all other life on earth, the planet and god is - DOOOOOOOOOMED
But Sony will go on.

06-06-2017, 08:40 AM - 3 Likes	#35
wildman Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Flyover America Posts: 4,469	Originally posted by 35mmfilmfan I was merely pointing out the unpalatable (to some) truth that in general the human race has had a deleterious effect on the planet, and that it is biologically irrelevant, as it forms no major part of any species foodchain, other than the microscopic. Speaking only for myself I took no offense at what you were getting at - the natural laws that govern who and what ultimately prevails on the planet are not artifacts of human culture and morality, but the basic underlying reality for all of us whether a virus or a Donald Trump. At the present primitive state of human culture I would guess the virus will prevail. Last edited by wildman; 06-06-2017 at 02:20 PM.

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06-03-2017, 09:06 PM	#31
automorphism Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Ontario, Canada Photos: Albums Posts: 791	I think the most important part of photography is the end product, which is the subject, composition and lighting. To that end any feature that makes getting to that point easier is great. Fast burst rate and super high ISO don't contribute to the creativity of the picture. I'd love to be able to shoot at 12800 ISO and have the same detail and smoothness that my camera currently gets at ISO 800. Of course, that doesn't mean that I'd pay 3000 to get it!

06-03-2017, 10:01 PM - 1 Like	#32
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	Originally posted by mohb Does your heart beat faster at the thought of the Sony A9 enabling you to take 20fps using an untold number of AF points at 1/32,000 at ISO 204,000 and therefore capture the ultimate picture of a bee in flight? Or are you like me and quite happy to use an old and battered K50 with an even older 100 macro lens and wait until the bee settles and take a few shots and repeat the process till either the bee flies off or I have to go home? I only ask because in all the verbiage spouted over the A9 the concept of the process we go through got submerged beneath the ability of the technology to do it all for us. I just got back from a conference where I learned that my company has developed an AI algorithm to write financial analysis on money managers using a market data stream without human intervention. They're using machine learning to refine the output for accuracy and consistency. The goal is to avoid the human styles and biases that distinguish individual analysts so the reports can dispassionately and accurately compare and contrast different money managers, and can be delivered real-time. Analysts, understandably, are conflicted about this technology.

06-05-2017, 08:08 AM - 1 Like	#33
pathdoc Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2015 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,381	It depends. Am I taking an "art" photo for some local town council's competition, with nothing at stake but the fun of shooting, developing and printing? Or am I a hard-core entomologist who wants to study the aerodynamics of various insect species in flight and compare/contrast how they get stuff done? If it's the former, I'm happy to bring even an S1a to the party; if it's the latter, I don't want to spend years perfecting my photographic craft; I want to capture those images in the field with the greatest possible ease in the shortest possible time, so I can get back into the lab and see what I can deduce from the images... so bring on all the tricks in the book. Somewhere in between lies that subjective fog in which the individuality of the photographer, their needs and wants, etc. combine. Originally posted by 35mmfilmfan Exterminating the human race - practically inevitable, and good for the planet. You view the extermination of humanity as good for the planet? You disgust me. Boriscleto'd forever.

06-05-2017, 11:58 PM - 2 Likes	#34
35mmfilmfan Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2016 Location: Norfolk, UK Posts: 4,327	Originally posted by pathdoc Originally posted by 35mmfilmfan Exterminating the human race - practically inevitable, and good for the planet. You view the extermination of humanity as good for the planet? You disgust me. Boriscleto'd forever. I was merely pointing out the unpalatable (to some) truth that in general the human race has had a deleterious effect on the planet, and that it is biologically irrelevant, as it forms no major part of any species foodchain, other than the microscopic. This is, however, probably not the most appropriate forum for this discussion - and at least my comment caused a reaction.

06-08-2017, 08:24 AM	#36
pathdoc Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2015 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,381	Originally posted by wildman At the present primitive state of human culture I would guess the virus will prevail. Primitive? Sorry, no. Some of us, maybe, but going into detail would only get my post killed. And while we're at it, you just joined my "B" list. Goodbye.

06-08-2017, 08:33 AM	#37
wildman Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Flyover America Posts: 4,469	Originally posted by pathdoc And while we're at it, you just joined my "B" list. Goodbye. On that, at least, it would seem we are both of one mind. Last edited by wildman; 06-08-2017 at 06:23 PM.

06-08-2017, 03:27 PM	#38
35mmfilmfan Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2016 Location: Norfolk, UK Posts: 4,327	Originally posted by pathdoc And while we're at it, you just joined my "B" list. What exactly is a 'B' list ? And, if I'm not on it, may I join ? I prefer discussions based on fact, not dogma and emotion.

06-08-2017, 03:58 PM - 1 Like	#39
timb64 Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: /Situation : Doing my best to avoid idiots! Photos: Gallery Posts: 9,510	Originally posted by 35mmfilmfan What exactly is a 'B' list ? And, if I'm not on it, may I join ? I prefer discussions based on fact, not dogma and emotion. I think he means his "ignore list",I may already be on it and wear it as a badge of honour!

06-08-2017, 04:16 PM	#40
pathdoc Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2015 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,381	Originally posted by timb64 I think he means his "ignore list",I may already be on it and wear it as a badge of honour! Would you like me to put you back on? That can easily be arranged.

06-08-2017, 04:25 PM - 3 Likes	#41
35mmfilmfan Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2016 Location: Norfolk, UK Posts: 4,327	Originally posted by timb64 I think he means his "ignore list",I may already be on it and wear it as a badge of honour! I must say he ignores us very noisily.

06-08-2017, 04:32 PM - 1 Like	#42
timb64 Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: /Situation : Doing my best to avoid idiots! Photos: Gallery Posts: 9,510	Originally posted by pathdoc Would you like me to put you back on? That can easily be arranged. Ooh,yes please

06-08-2017, 04:38 PM	#43
pathdoc Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2015 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,381	Originally posted by timb64 Ooh,yes please Done!

06-08-2017, 04:39 PM	#44
timb64 Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: /Situation : Doing my best to avoid idiots! Photos: Gallery Posts: 9,510	Originally posted by pathdoc Done! I would say,thanks,but it would obviously be wasted on you

06-09-2017, 09:12 AM	#45
wildman Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Flyover America Posts: 4,469	DSLR's, Pentax, the camera industry, the capitalist global market system, man and all other life on earth, the planet and god is - DOOOOOOOOOMED But Sony will go on.