[Edgar_in_Indy]

Is anyone here a lawyer and have the means to issue an actual response on the legality? I mean let's say you (OP) take the photos as you want and then they call the police. Do you tell the police you read on pentax forums that it was legal to take these photos? hahah


I think you need a lawyer in your jurisdiction to answer this question definitively. Only we can offer are best guesses and opinions on it... provided we actually don't have a lawyer from your location here responding.

I'm also in Law Enforcement, and can speak on the issues, at least in regards to the state of Indiana's laws. But as I said, the criminal code is mostly uniform across the US, and many of these issues have already been settled by the Supreme Court. The short answer is that you do not have an expectation of privacy when it comes to somebody looking through your vehicle windows in public. It's not even a close call.

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Last edited by Edgar_in_Indy; 08-11-2017 at 10:42 AM.

[aslyfox]

Is anyone here a lawyer and have the means to issue an actual response on the legality? I mean let's say you (OP) take the photos as you want and then they call the police. Do you tell the police you read on pentax forums that it was legal to take these photos? hahah


I think you need a lawyer in your jurisdiction to answer this question definitively. Only we can offer are best guesses and opinions on it... provided we actually don't have a lawyer from your location here responding.

I have been a licensed attorney since 1982, in Iowa originally and now in Kansas, but I am not licensed to practice law in the OP's country

and when asked to give a legal opinion my response is:

" for free?

I can give you an Wild A** Guess but I will tell you not to rely on it

if you pay for my time to research the question, I can give you an opinion which you can rely on "

you are correct that if the OP really wants a legal opinion he should consult with competent attorneys/solicitors in his area

Remember free advice is often worth what you paid for it.

[twilhelm]

In Italy it isn't if you don't explicit the fact that you're photographing, filming and so on. Also Police can't collect photos and videos until those are an evidence for some kind of admin. violation or crime. so, to sum up (in Italy)
PUBLIC PLACES -- allowed
PEOPLE (not individuals; in public places) ------allowed until the single individual is not recognizable; if recognizable permission requested
PRIVATE INDIVIDUALS ------ by permission, filming/photogr. advertised
USE OF THE PHOTOS: allowed witout permission only for places and people(copyrights involved), not allowed for private individuals (permission requested).

There are a lot of similarities. In order for me to seize a camera or phone, there has to be a crime. And I cannot use or search the item without a search warrant signed by a Judge.

Now, if you photograph an incident involving Police, (which is perfectly legal) do so from a distance. If the officer feels you are close enough to jeopardize his/her safety you are crossing into another area and could face criminal charges. Yes it is subjective and I have had to tell people to back away several times.

As far as copyright laws, if the person is recognizable, then it all comes down to who they are and how you plan to use the photographs.

[DeadJohn]

I have been a licensed attorney since 1982, in Iowa originally and now in Kansas, but I am not licensed to practice law in the OP's country

and when asked to give a legal opinion my response is:

" for free?

I can give you an Wild A** Guess but I will tell you not to rely on it

if you pay for my time to research the question, I can give you an opinion which you can rely on "

you are correct that if the OP really wants a legal opinion he should consult with competent attorneys/solicitors in his area

Remember free advice is often worth what you paid for it.

I realize you can't be expected to know the law in Australia. I'm commenting on your general statement about needing research to answer any question. After all that time in law school plus job experience, you should be able to do better than a wild guess.

[Edgar_in_Indy]

I realize you can't be expected to know the law in Australia. I'm commenting on your general statement about needing research to answer any question. After all that time in law school plus job experience, you should be able to do better than a wild guess.

Are you seriously asking for a lawyer's expert opinion on whether it is a crime to photograph someone riding in a car on a public street? Have you ever seen anything to suggest that would be a crime?

If somebody is truly fretting about this question, all you have to do is call your local D.A./Prosecutor's office and ask a deputy prosecutor. They will usually answer these kinds of questions from the public, and without charging anything. Personally though, I'd feel a bit silly even asking.

[aslyfox]

I realize you can't be expected to know the law in Australia. I'm commenting on your general statement about needing research to answer any question. After all that time in law school plus job experience, you should be able to do better than a wild guess.

do you realize how quickly the law can change through court actions and/or new legislation?

the law is not static but mobile

for example here in Kansas, laws usually change effective in January or July or when the legislation says so " effective immediately "

a controlling appellate court could issue a ruling which would affect my opinion at 1 PM today effective immediately

would you like me to give you an opinion and tell you to rely on it when I know I could be wrong???

professionally I would never do that.

if I researched the issue last week, that is one thing perhaps

if not, then research is necessary and professionally required.

should I do that for free when that is my "bread and butter " ??

[Edgar_in_Indy]

obviously you don't realize how quickly the law can change through court actions and/or new legislation

I'm also guessing he has not seen how thick the criminal code book is. Which is only the tip of the iceberg compared to the body of case law that has to be considered.

It's like expecting a doctor to be an expert on every part of the human body and be able to answer any medical question off the top of their heads. Like doctors, lawyers also specialize.

But again, I don't think this particular question is too much of a head-scratcher. Unless maybe we're talking about someplace like North Korea.

[honey bo bo]

the car of which you speak is me and my mistress taking my wife's hated dog to the vets to have put down unbenounced to her and i have a gun in the glove box. What lens would you use?

Answer: 500mm mirror with 2X & 3X TC Stacked from behind a concrete abutment 1000 yards ahead I start shooting as soon as see the glint of the sun on your lens!

[aslyfox]

. . . all you have to do is call your local D.A./Prosecutor's office and ask a deputy prosecutor. They will usually answer these kinds of questions from the public, and without charging anything. . . . .

I did something similar but it did not work out as planned when I asked a police officer a question about a knife

I wanted the opinion of the " officer on the street "

I picked up a small blade sheath knife with a Damascus blade on my Yellowstone trip

I knew in Iowa, that if I carried that on my hip and it was covered by a shirt or jacket, it would be considered a concealed weapon.

so I took it down to the local pd.

I walked into the lobby and stopped. I had the knife in its sheath held in my fingers, my hands spread wide. A uniformed officer was behind the desk behind glass. a plains clothed officer was talking to a young woman seated in the lobby. I was 20 feet away from them. she saw me and said: "that man has a knife. "

the plains clothed officer faced me and said - "what the hell are you doing ? " I have no idea what the other officer was doing, I think he was ignoring us.

I explained I was trying to find out that if I carried my knife and my clothing concealed it would that be a crime and I told him I had a concealed weapon permit

he said, that in no way would carrying a knife be a concealed weapon ( ????? ) with or without a concealed weapon permit and I was stupid to walk into the police station with the knife

I thanked him, I presumed he was armed and I " don't argue with the ref during the game " if you understand what I mean.

but I didn't like his attitude or reaction.

[mee]

I'm also in Law Enforcement, and can speak on the issues, at least in regards to the state of Indiana's laws. But as I said, the criminal code is mostly uniform across the US, and many of these issues have already been settled by the Supreme Court. The short answer is that you do not have an expectation of privacy when it comes to somebody looking through your vehicle windows in public. It's not even a close call.

While I'm sure you're rather up on your codes and laws, I still would petition a lawyer and not a cop on the matter. I'd be more concerned giving legal advice online and then becoming a part of a lawsuit if things turn south and they point fingers back at me for giving them advice (that is incorrect).


Really, if you need legal advice, consult a lawyer versed in that specific situation in your specific area. If you are asking the question is it legal then you should probably rethink about doing it... obviously it must feel wrong to do it to have to ask the question, and for good reason.

[Wasp]

If it was me, I might have grabbed a pic of the view in the rear mirror of the vehicle that I was travelling in.

When trying to grab a pic in a street photography, a good trick is to take your own time in composing and keep looking through the viewfinder after releasing the shutter. That way the people in the street will assume that you are taking pictures of the buildings or whatever and not of them. If you whip out the camera and snatch it away again you might get noticed and attract attention to yourself. Or so I have heard. YMMV.

[Edgar_in_Indy]

While I'm sure you're rather up on your codes and laws, I still would petition a lawyer and not a cop on the matter. I'd be more concerned giving legal advice online and then becoming a part of a lawsuit if things turn south and they point fingers back at me for giving them advice (that is incorrect).


Really, if you need legal advice, consult a lawyer versed in that specific situation in your specific area. If you are asking the question is it legal then you should probably rethink about doing it... obviously it must feel wrong to do it to have to ask the question, and for good reason.

My Bachelor's degree is in Criminal Justice, so I've taken a lot of courses on criminal law and Constitutional law. I would not be surprised if I have taken more courses in those areas than a law student typically takes in law school since their course of study has to cover the whole range of law topics and legal disciplines. Between my education and my actual experience in criminal law, I can tell you with a very high degree of certainty that in Indiana at least, it is not criminal to take a picture of somebody riding in a car in a public place as described by the OP. That's not exactly going out on a limb to say, so if somebody wants to point a finger at me as the source of that information, they are welcome to do so!

And believe it or not, even prosecutors do not have most of the criminal code memorized. They will often have to look things up if it is not something common that they deal with on a regular basis. If I call them with a question, then it is probably going to be something off the wall, and their most likely response will be "let me get back with you in a few minutes."

But I definitely agree on your bigger point that "a random guy on the internet" or even a "random lawyer on the internet" is not what you want to cite as an authority when it is a serious matter that you are concerned about and it's your own butt on the line!

[leekil]

This is a pretty good summary of the legal situation in the US.

Know Your Rights as a Photographer!

[Liney]

Ladies and Gentlemen

First off, as the thread starter I didn't suspect I would get so many responses so quickly. Noting the general geographical location of the majority of the respondees the sun rose over Europe and then the Americas as I (in Australia) was heading to bed! Thank you for the responses, the topic of privacy and photography in public is always complicated and so much depends on the actual circumstances.

Secondly, Aslyfox, no offence taken. I perhaps confused the issue over the crux of the question by setting the scene. As a professional safety practitioner I can tell you many stories of human distraction!

Obviously the content of the photograph could be taken in so many different ways, what appears to me to be a humorous or quirky shot of two people in a car with a dog may have meaning and connotations to those involved which are not apparent to me the photographer. When I take an image I do it for my own pleasure, the thought of publishing or using that image for gain is not in my mind at the time and i tend to only "publish" (in terms of share them among friends or social media) images which either do not contain people, or do not contain people who are recognisable. But that's me.

Please continue the debate, if nothing else it may raise a few issue that others can learn from and prevent future issues.

[aslyfox]

Ladies and Gentlemen

First off, as the thread starter I didn't suspect I would get so many responses so quickly. Noting the general geographical location of the majority of the respondees the sun rose over Europe and then the Americas as I (in Australia) was heading to bed! . . . Thank you for the responses, the topic of privacy and photography in public is always complicated and so much depends on the actual circumstances.

Please continue the debate, if nothing else it may raise a few issue that others can learn from and prevent future issues.

it seems like most people agree ( paraphrasing here and perhaps taking a liberty or two )

be careful when operating a motor vehicle

if you feel you need legal advice, seek it from a qualified legal source in your area, not from the internet

enjoy photography but be respectful of others

I hope I was close in my summation of the respectful discussion ( no arguments here boss ) found in this thread so far