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10-10-2017, 06:52 PM   #16
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This thread is very funny. Why?

Take a long lens, 300mm or more. Set the focusing on a the central point only. And set the exposure in the spot mode. Look for an airplane above you, high in the sky, at great distance, in the day time, when the sky is blue. Take your Pentax camera, set the focal lenght at max, and take a number of shots of the plane. Maybe you will not see the differences in the very first shots. But after ten or less, you will notice that Pentax beggins to lose the exposure. and sometimes, the focus. In reality, the camera will keep the exposure and focus correctly, but your hands will betray you, and you will lose that small object which give the right exposure and focus, And if you dare to repet this test with a good stabilized lens from Canon or Nikon, anybody will see the truth with his own eyes.

So, the IBIS is good, but not in every occasion. Overall, the optical stabilization is better, makes the camera easier to use, because the image in the viewfinder does not shakes, but makes lenses more expensive. Especially when the lens has 2 levels of stabilization, for general, and for panning.

Surely, the best system is one with both, IBIS and OIS, like in Olympus OM 1 mark 2, which make handheld shots of several second possible. Saddly, Pentax is ignoring this solutions.

10-10-2017, 07:09 PM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by JimmyDranox Quote
This thread is very funny. Why?

Take a long lens, 300mm or more. Set the focusing on a the central point only. And set the exposure in the spot mode. Look for an airplane above you, high in the sky, at great distance, in the day time, when the sky is blue. Take your Pentax camera, set the focal lenght at max, and take a number of shots of the plane. Maybe you will not see the differences in the very first shots. But after ten or less, you will notice that Pentax beggins to lose the exposure. and sometimes, the focus. In reality, the camera will keep the exposure and focus correctly, but your hands will betray you, and you will lose that small object which give the right exposure and focus, And if you dare to repet this test with a good stabilized lens from Canon or Nikon, anybody will see the truth with his own eyes.

So, the IBIS is good, but not in every occasion. Overall, the optical stabilization is better, makes the camera easier to use, because the image in the viewfinder does not shakes, but makes lenses more expensive. Especially when the lens has 2 levels of stabilization, for general, and for panning.

Surely, the best system is one with both, IBIS and OIS, like in Olympus OM 1 mark 2, which make handheld shots of several second possible. Saddly, Pentax is ignoring this solutions.
That's a little misleading, on some shots it might be the best, on some shots, best is as good as it gets and the Pentax system will be "best". I'm curious, have you tested the Olympus?
What's the power drain like running a OIS and an ibis at the same time?

We all want to know from an actual user what they think of it.
10-10-2017, 07:28 PM   #18
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When you can take a long exposure shot, of 2-3 or even 5 seconds, handheld, does the power drain counts? It is obvious that you must be prepared for this.

But you are missing the point. Is not about the brand. Is about the advances that are made in technology, that are good for the users, and can be replicated by Pentax, if they want.
10-10-2017, 08:16 PM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by JimmyDranox Quote
But after ten or less, you will notice that Pentax beggins to lose the exposure. and sometimes, the focus.
I believe this is to be expected at least for the exposure in spot mode. That is not how the feature is used, though a common mistake for exposure noobs. As for the focus, that one I will have to try the next time I am tracking a tiny subject where the required focus movement is finer than that of the stepping motor in the lens and where miles of stratified air lie between me and the subject.


QuoteOriginally posted by JimmyDranox Quote
But you are missing the point. Is not about the brand. Is about the advances that are made in technology, that are good for the users, and can be replicated by Pentax, if they want.
I do believe you should pursue a career in camera product development. The engineers will love you.


Steve

(...am a huge fan of Dilbert...)

10-10-2017, 08:24 PM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by JimmyDranox Quote
When you can take a long exposure shot, of 2-3 or even 5 seconds, handheld, does the power drain counts? .
Can you show me this five second handheld shot you've taken, Jimmy?
10-10-2017, 08:35 PM - 1 Like   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by JimmyDranox Quote
This thread is very funny. Why?

Take a long lens, 300mm or more. Set the focusing on a the central point only. And set the exposure in the spot mode. Look for an airplane above you, high in the sky, at great distance, in the day time, when the sky is blue. Take your Pentax camera, set the focal lenght at max, and take a number of shots of the plane. Maybe you will not see the differences in the very first shots. But after ten or less, you will notice that Pentax beggins to lose the exposure. and sometimes, the focus. In reality, the camera will keep the exposure and focus correctly, but your hands will betray you, and you will lose that small object which give the right exposure and focus, And if you dare to repet this test with a good stabilized lens from Canon or Nikon, anybody will see the truth with his own eyes.

So, the IBIS is good, but not in every occasion. Overall, the optical stabilization is better, makes the camera easier to use, because the image in the viewfinder does not shakes, but makes lenses more expensive. Especially when the lens has 2 levels of stabilization, for general, and for panning.

Surely, the best system is one with both, IBIS and OIS, like in Olympus OM 1 mark 2, which make handheld shots of several second possible. Saddly, Pentax is ignoring this solutions.
Setting the camera for single AF point and spot metering for this type of shot, seems more like an user error than a limitation of the system. Single AF point is designed for AF-S and AF tracking do not work properly with it selected, even on cameras with optical stabilization. AF tracking need input from several AF point to be fully functional.

Last edited by Fogel70; 10-10-2017 at 11:18 PM.
10-11-2017, 04:16 AM   #22
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I don't own any Olympus camera, so I am not a fanbuy of this brand. But I have seen a lot of long exposures taken by different peoples, up to 6 seconds handheld. Anybody interested in photography in general, not only in praising Pentax cameras, can find out searching the net.

IMHO, everyone would make himself a service if will stop thinking in term of, ''My camera brand is better than any other in universe''. Yes, the camera I own is good for me as long as it serve me well. But is not the best camera because I own it. To say this means to lie to myself.

And to make everyone here happy, yes, OIS is better than IBIS.
10-11-2017, 04:31 AM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by JimmyDranox Quote
I don't own any Olympus camera, so I am not a fanbuy of this brand. But I have seen a lot of long exposures taken by different peoples, up to 6 seconds handheld.
Well, you're the one making this unusual argument, Jimmy *you* have to provide the evidence, along with proof that IBIS couldn't.

Enough with your sermon about brand ownership. I have Canon, Sony, Samsung and Nikon cameras too.


Last edited by clackers; 10-11-2017 at 04:39 AM.
10-11-2017, 04:53 AM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by JimmyDranox Quote
IMHO, everyone would make himself a service if will stop thinking in term of, ''My camera brand is better than any other in universe''. Yes, the camera I own is good for me as long as it serve me well. But is not the best camera because I own it. To say this means to lie to myself.
As a member of the set labelled "everyone", I'd suggest you'd be really wise at this point to just button up and stop speaking for me.
I don't claim my equipment is better, I claim that for me, I can get the job done with it. I always wonder about people who have to have some new gimmick to do what I do without it.

The simple fact is I take very few 6 second exposures. I'm not buying a camera for that.

If you want to be Olympus' marketing department, and claim everyone who doesn't get all bug eyed with every new marketing claim thinks their camera is best, you really need to tone that back a bit. It's offensive, and really, little more than name calling. Expect some push back.

Everyone on this site knows that they are using value equipment, not front line high end tech. That's what we know. That's a lot different from what you claim we think.

Last edited by normhead; 10-11-2017 at 05:06 AM.
10-11-2017, 06:55 AM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by Fogel70 Quote
Single AF point is designed for AF-S and AF tracking do not work properly with it selected, even on cameras with optical stabilization. AF tracking need input from several AF point to be fully functional.
Can you explain it in detail, please? I'm asking because:
- I used a Canon 6D for more than 2 years and I was tracking moving subjects with success mostly with a single point af. I'm now using a 5D Mark IV and I still use single point af for tracking, depending on the size of the subjects, depending on how erathic runs or fly and also depending of the distance between me and the subject.
- Grant Atkinson, an wildlife photographer who explains very well on his Youtube channel how AF-C works on pro Canon cameras, often uses single point for moving subjects and he uses 1Dx Mark II and 5D Mark IV, which are very capable cameras in terms of tracking. He even posted some images with rhinos coming out from the water and with a leopard jumping at the throat of an antelope, images taken with a single point af.

---------- Post added 10-11-17 at 02:04 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
Well, you're the one making this unusual argument, Jimmy *you* have to provide the evidence, along with proof that IBIS couldn't.
This guy took some shots with 2, 3 or 4 seconds exposure time while handholding the camera. He is the former Nikon ambassador in Romania, now shooting with Oly. He was the guy I asked if he turns off the image stabilisation from camera when he is shooting wildlife and told me that he only turns off the image stabilisation from the lens. The one from the camera stays on.

Olympus OM D E-M 1 Mk II review - or how can you win, when everyone else thinks that you have lost…

Last edited by Dan Rentea; 10-11-2017 at 07:07 AM.
10-11-2017, 07:46 AM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by Dan Rentea Quote
Can you explain it in detail, please? I'm asking because:
- I used a Canon 6D for more than 2 years and I was tracking moving subjects with success mostly with a single point af. I'm now using a 5D Mark IV and I still use single point af for tracking, depending on the size of the subjects, depending on how erathic runs or fly and also depending of the distance between me and the subject.
- Grant Atkinson, an wildlife photographer who explains very well on his Youtube channel how AF-C works on pro Canon cameras, often uses single point for moving subjects and he uses 1Dx Mark II and 5D Mark IV, which are very capable cameras in terms of tracking. He even posted some images with rhinos coming out from the water and with a leopard jumping at the throat of an antelope, images taken with a single point af.

---------- Post added 10-11-17 at 02:04 PM ----------



This guy took some shots with 2, 3 or 4 seconds exposure time while handholding the camera. He is the former Nikon ambassador in Romania, now shooting with Oly. He was the guy I asked if he turns off the image stabilisation from camera when he is shooting wildlife and told me that he only turns off the image stabilisation from the lens. The one from the camera stays on.

Olympus OM D E-M 1 Mk II review - or how can you win, when everyone else thinks that you have lost…
The trouble for me is my handshake is such that I'm sure I can exceed the capability of any SR system regardless of manufacturer. For me it's most likely a waste of money.

1 second exposure with an OM D E-MkII?

At 800 ISO

800 ISO would be about my top ISO on that camera, but I can shoot 3200 and 1/4 second on my K-1 and my SR can handle that. There's' more than one way to skin a cat.

You have to admit though, the resolution that Oly gets out of a 20 MP sensor in good light is truly impressive. At base ISO and high res mode it's as good as a K-1.

Last edited by normhead; 10-11-2017 at 09:21 AM.
10-11-2017, 09:00 AM - 1 Like   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by Dan Rentea Quote
Can you explain it in detail, please? I'm asking because:
- I used a Canon 6D for more than 2 years and I was tracking moving subjects with success mostly with a single point af. I'm now using a 5D Mark IV and I still use single point af for tracking, depending on the size of the subjects, depending on how erathic runs or fly and also depending of the distance between me and the subject.
- Grant Atkinson, an wildlife photographer who explains very well on his Youtube channel how AF-C works on pro Canon cameras, often uses single point for moving subjects and he uses 1Dx Mark II and 5D Mark IV, which are very capable cameras in terms of tracking. He even posted some images with rhinos coming out from the water and with a leopard jumping at the throat of an antelope, images taken with a single point af.[COLOR="Silver"]
I don't have much experience with canon, but with single point AF the focus can easily jump onto something that comes in front of the subject you try to track. So with single point AF you have continuous AF, but no real tracking of the subject.
Understanding Canon 5D Mark IV Autofocus - AF Points & AF Areas
10-11-2017, 09:40 AM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by Fogel70 Quote
I don't have much experience with canon, but with single point AF the focus can easily jump onto something that comes in front of the subject you try to track. So with single point AF you have continuous AF, but no real tracking of the subject.
Understanding Canon 5D Mark IV Autofocus - AF Points & AF Areas
The guy who wrote this article needs some lessons regarding tracking. Or he should visit Grant Artkinson Youtube channel.

I quote from the article from the link you posted "The downside of Single point selection is that if you or your subject moves, even in AI Servo, the camera will likely lose focus. The AF system does no tracking in these modes so its best suited for static subjects or ones with complex 3d surfaces." I used Canon 6D for more than 2 years, I now use a 5D Mark IV and I'm telling you that what this guy said it's far from being true. And I have tons of images to back up my comments, but it's not a topic dedicated to Canon tracking.

---------- Post added 10-11-17 at 04:43 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
The trouble for me is my handshake is such that I'm sure I can exceed the capability of any SR system regardless of manufacturer. For me it's most likely a waste of money.

1 second exposure with an OM D E-MkII?

At 800 ISO

800 ISO would be about my top ISO on that camera, but I can shoot 3200 and 1/4 second on my K-1 and my SR can handle that. There's' more than one way to skin a cat.

You have to admit though, the resolution that Oly gets out of a 20 MP sensor in good light is truly impressive. At base ISO and high res mode it's as good as a K-1.
I like Oly colors and also the lenses. But the smaller sensor and the EVF makes me skip Oly as a travel camera.
10-11-2017, 10:04 AM - 2 Likes   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by Dan Rentea Quote
I used Canon 6D for more than 2 years, I now use a 5D Mark IV and I'm telling you that what this guy said it's far from being true. And I have tons of images to back up my comments, but it's not a topic dedicated to Canon tracking.
Dan, in regards to the original question of this thread, with either of these cameras, have you noticed any significant difference in AF performance between IS on or off ? Or have you noticed that non IS lenses have more problems with autofocus ?

BTW, this question is also open to anyone having experience with Canon and Nikon system with IS lenses...
10-11-2017, 10:12 AM - 1 Like   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by CarlJF Quote
Dan, in regards to the original question of this thread, with either of these cameras, have you noticed any significant difference in AF performance between IS on or off ? Or have you noticed that non IS lenses have more problems with autofocus ?

BTW, this question is also open to anyone having experience with Canon and Nikon system with IS lenses...
I didn't noticed problems with af with non IS lenses. When I bought my 70-200mm f4L IS lens, I rented also for 3-4 days the non IS version of the lens. Both worked the same, the only difference being at low shutter speeds. With the IS version I could shot at 200mm and a shutter speed of 1/40s. With the non IS version I needed at least 1/125s to take a sharp image.

Also, when panning, the IS version allowed me to use shutter speeds of 1/25s, 1/40s.

I didn't noticed any lag regarding af when IS was on or off. At shutter speeds faster than 1/500s the IS seems to slow the af a little bit.
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