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10-29-2017, 06:40 PM   #1
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Why 70-200mm and not wider but shorter?

The 70-200mm f/2.8 based lens is one of my most popular focal length ranged zooms in existence. There are 23 variants of the 70-200mm on B&H.. Twenty Three!

Why 70-200mm? I understand this is a popular focal length range for portraiture/weddings and some action photography where you don't want/can't get too close and/or the further away reduces the roundiness (distortion) from faces. Great.

But why out to 200mm?? and Why 70m on wide end? Wouldn't a 50-105mm f/2.8 lens be rather useful but also smaller and lighter than the 70-200mm? They'd probably sell more of those to portraity photographers than 70-200mm lenses if they had their druthers.

Plus the smaller focal range means (in my theoretical and non-technical spitballing) the lens should be a higher optical quality lens.. at least easier to make (less complexity). No?

And if it was wide enough to reach standard FL (50mm) it seems like it would be more useful for basic walkaround photography too.

10-29-2017, 07:23 PM   #2
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I think it's the 2.8 that is what makes it so popular. I just started looking to get one because I want to start photographing ice hockey games, I'm also looking at the Sigma 120-300 2.8.

I'm looking at one because I think the 70mm on full frame will be good for closer action and the 200 hundred should be good for cross ice action but looking at the 120-300 incase 200 is to short.

I was a little dissapointed to see that dxo hasn't tested the dfa 70-200, but they don't seem to test Pentax much at all.
10-29-2017, 07:23 PM   #3
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a salesman said that a 24-70 and a 70-200 would make a basic zoom kit for zoom users
that is where they try to move their customers

I was picking up a used tamron 70-200 at the time
10-29-2017, 07:40 PM   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
Why 70-200mm and not wider but shorter?
WIDE 24mm to portraiture 70mm

Portraiture 70mm to LONG 200mm

2 Zooms cover WIDE to LONG and stuff in between.

---------- Post added 10-30-17 at 01:43 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by KiloHotelphoto Quote
I was a little dissapointed to see that dxo hasn't tested the dfa 70-200
Some of their testing maybe technically astute,however the best testers are in the lens clubs and reviewers on this forum.Look at the images,not the charts!

10-29-2017, 08:26 PM   #5
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Having shot a few events I think the 200mm is very useful to get in close, even if you already are pretty close! So 105mm would definitely not be enough.
10-29-2017, 09:30 PM   #6
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Before digital both Nikon and Pentax had 80-200 f2.8 professional zooms.

They exist as they do because they have really really good image quality and are extremely flexible. 70 is wide enough for environmental and head and shoulders portraits in a room, and 200 is long enough to reach the other side of a room (keeping the photog) out of the way or being used to isolate for a headshot. F2.8 is fast enough for fast film or a sensor with even ok high ISO capabilities to get shots without flash indoors, and gives pretty good subject isolation compared to slower lenses. And while heavier than a 70 or a 200mm prime, it's still manageably sized to carry for even long events compared to a longer ranged fast zoom.

If you need more reach, these lenses are good enough and fast enough to still have good IQ and still autofocus reliably with a 1.4x and/or a 2x teleconverter too which is a lot cheaper than a new wildlife zoom.
10-29-2017, 10:19 PM   #7
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Of the 4230 shots I've take on the K-1 with the DA* 70-200, 2257 of them have been at 200 mm and 791 at 70 mm.

10-29-2017, 10:38 PM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by skierd Quote
Before digital both Nikon and Pentax had 80-200 f2.8 professional zooms.
The FA* 80-200/2.8 is the only f/2.8 longer zoom comes to mind from before the *istD. In the old days, f/4 fixed maximum aperture on a long zoom was sort of the standard based on the combination of performance, bulk and weight. I have been shooting a fair bit lately with the Pentax-A 70-210/4 and have been pretty impressed by both usability and image quality. Most shooting is done at f/5.6 and f/8 and there is usually enough light even this time of year to make it work. There is a subversive element here on the Pentax Forums that is quietly lobbying for a moderately priced f/4 lightweight longer D FA zoom.


Steve
10-29-2017, 11:47 PM   #9
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I now have a 70-200 f4 Nikon that I use on Nikon obviously, find it exceptional in that it is light and performs almost to same level as the 2.8 Nikons.
10-30-2017, 04:25 AM - 1 Like   #10
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Certain focal lengths became popular and "standard" because of lingering attachment to tradition. How many 135mm lenses have been placed on the market since 1950? Why not 150mm or 125mm? Because either Leitz (I think) or perhaps Zeiss decided that 135mm was the longest FL that could be focused accurately by their rangefinder cameras. So when SLR's started to sweep the 35mm market in the late 1950's, every manufacturer absolutely had to have a 135mm lens, commonly two or even three (f4 or f3.5, f2.8, and f1.8).

Now for the 70-200mm zoom, I think the takeoff was the Vivitar Series I 70-210mm* with its single trombone-style zoom & focus control That was a revolutionary and benchmark lens that unleashed a flood of competitors, f2.8, f4, variable aperture, some with trombone single control, some with dual rings, some ultra-compact (Tokina offered one that was really tiny), some big/heavy but with superior IQ, and some with slightly different FL range, especially starting @ 80mm instead of 70mm and reaching 200mm instead of 210mm. Nikon offered an 80-180mm macro (1:2) which is also a descendant of the Vivitar. With so many manufacturers offering so many variants, the competition for high quality was intense, and consequently there are many zooms covering this range that have IQ competitive with SFL lenses. The design is locked into small camera culture in the same way that 50 to 55mm is locked-in as the "normal" focal length (by much longer tradition, the normal FL for FF 35mm should be closer to 40mm).

*correction inserted - the Vivitar was 70-210, not 70-200.

Last edited by WPRESTO; 10-30-2017 at 07:10 AM.
10-30-2017, 04:40 AM - 1 Like   #11
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I think the issue is that 200mm is not very long at all for full frame. On crop, of course, it is quite long, but if you are shooting sports or anything like that, then you really need at least the ability to go to 200mm. High quality f2.8 zooms tend to be limited to 3x zoom and so going backward from there you end up with 70mm on the wide end.

The other thing is that it does match up pretty well with a 24-70mm zoom.

The range doesn't work as well on crop frame where the Sigma, Fuji, and Pentax 50-1xx zooms make a lot more sense.
10-30-2017, 06:37 AM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by WPRESTO Quote
. . . Now for the 70-200mm zoom, I think the takeoff was the Vivitar Series I 70-200mm with its single trombone-style zoom & focus control That was a revolutionary and benchmark lens that unleashed a flood of competitors . . .
just curious

did you mean the Vivitar Series One 70 - 210mm zoom lenses instead of a Series One 70 - 200 mm zoom?

Vivitar Series 1 70-210mm Line Lens Reviews - Vivitar Lenses - Pentax Lens Review Database

I can find a Vivitar 70 - 200 mm zoom but it isn't a Series One
10-30-2017, 06:43 AM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aslyfox Quote
just curious

did you mean the Vivitar Series One 70 - 210 zoom lenses instead of a Series One 70 - 200 mm zoom?

Vivitar Series 1 70-210mm Line Lens Reviews - Vivitar Lenses - Pentax Lens Review Database

Yes. My error. Have not looked at the specifications for that lens for many years. I well remember when the original Series I Vivitar was introduced. It was an eye-opener in terms of what could be done. The major manufacturers may have had a similar lens under development, but I think the Vivitar was the first onto the market in the USA. It was very popular and therefore enormously successful.
10-30-2017, 06:54 AM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by WPRESTO Quote
Yes. My error. Have not looked at the specifications for that lens for many years. I well remember when the original Series I Vivitar was introduced. It was an eye-opener in terms of what could be done. The major manufacturers may have had a similar lens under development, but I think the Vivitar was the first onto the market in the USA. It was very popular and therefore enormously successful.
if you don't mind manual focus, they are still usable today
10-30-2017, 07:12 AM   #15
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Interesting posts, guys.

So it seems this focal range is due to tradition, catching several types of shooters (less lens designs to produce), and pairing well with another traditional focal range (24-70).


Though I wonder if a 3rd party was to make a weathered sealed 50-105 f/2.8 or f/2 type lens how it would fair? It seems many people buy 85 f/1.8 or the like to shoot portraiture. A lens more dedicated to that type of shooting but in a zoom might be interesting. But why specifically 85mm as portrait length is another thread entirely!

I understand why 24-105mm lenses are never f/2.8 (size and weight concerns) but shortening the range to 50-105 or 35-105mm might be useful with a fast aperture. It looks like Pentax in olden F series days had lenses with those focal ranges but they were variable aperture lenses.
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