New Reflex Film SLR

Biro · 11-07-2017, 08:34 AM - **1 Like**

Okay, this is pretty interesting...

Reflex: Bringing back the analogue SLR camera by REFLEX ? Kickstarter

Reflex Manual Film SLR Camera Launches on Kickstarter | PhotographyBLOG

timw4mail · 11-07-2017, 08:54 AM

Facinating and ambitious. Replacable mounts and backs. I really like that the standard mount is M42, and that it comes with a refurbished Helios 44 or Pentacon 50/1.8.

Mount options include: M42, Nikon F, Olympus OM. Canon FD and Pentax PK.

I do find it odd that there is no mention of the Pentaprism specs, though.

pathdoc · 11-07-2017, 09:02 AM

It is indeed, especially since the interchangeable backs open up the possibility of a digital option down the road.

$670 CAD as I type this, to get it with an M42 mount and nearly $740 CAD for the mount of your choice. And they claim to desire an accessible price tag. Um... no.

This is clearly pitched at the hipster market, but they must be anticipating some very rich hipsters: $4200 CAD for a gold plated version and nearly $1700 CAD for a titanium body. So much for being concerned about the lack of an affordable low-end film camera.

I like the modular approach, but I would like to know more (that they are not telling us) about how the aperture is going to be handled or signalled to the camera.

It's also not a good sign that their advertising is sorely in need of a good copy editor.

I will be staying clear of this one. They sound like they're nowhere near far enough into development to risk the money. And everyone knows that the best affordable camera for the masses is one that will keep going when the electronics have fried and the batteries are dead. This one doesn't look like it even comes near that.

timw4mail · 11-07-2017, 09:18 AM

Originally posted by pathdoc

I like the modular approach, but I would like to know more (that they are not telling us) about how the aperture is going to be handled or signalled to the camera.

That's a good point, and by making M42 the standard mount, they almost seem to be trying to side-step that.

Originally posted by pathdoc

I will be staying clear of this one. They sound like they're nowhere near far enough into development to risk the money. And everyone knows that the best affordable camera for the masses is one that will keep going when the electronics have fried and the batteries are dead. This one doesn't look like it even comes near that.

I think I'll be watching with interest. It is an all or nothing Kickstarter, so if they don't make their goal, you get your money back.

photoptimist · 11-07-2017, 09:41 AM

Originally posted by pathdoc

I like the modular approach, but I would like to know more (that they are not telling us) about how the aperture is going to be handled or signalled to the camera.

Looking at the pictures, there's no evidence of any aperture coupling or actuation at all. And it doesn't look the interchangeable lens plate or mirror box have room for any levers and aperture motors.

Thus, it seems like it uses manual stop-down focus & Av metering.

EDIT: Hmmm... there's a DoF preview button so maybe there must be an aperture actuator in there someplace......

dsmithhfx · 11-07-2017, 10:50 AM

Originally posted by Biro

Okay, this is pretty interesting...

Reflex: Bringing back the analogue SLR camera by REFLEX ? Kickstarter

Reflex Manual Film SLR Camera Launches on Kickstarter | PhotographyBLOG

Cosina-Voigtländer did this a few years back with a very credible offering.

This looks... less credible.

timw4mail · 11-07-2017, 11:36 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by photoptimist

EDIT: Hmmm... there's a DoF preview button so maybe there must be an aperture actuator in there someplace......

That's on the mount plate itself, so that might simplify the design somewhat.

photoptimist · 11-07-2017, 12:08 PM

Originally posted by timw4mail

That's on the mount plate itself, so that might simplify the design somewhat.

Yes, perhaps every lens plate has the required mechanical tidbits to link the DoF button to the aperture of the lens. And then there's an electromechanical actuator in the body that actuates the DoF button from inside when the shutter fires.

skierd · 11-07-2017, 02:35 PM

I think it's a fantastic idea overall. I also have questions about the finder (prism or mirror, what focusing screens, etc), accuracy of the meter system, aperture control, and more. If it's a quality camera, it'll be great for mirrorless shooters with old manual lenses across various mounts who want to buy a film camera without investing in a Nikon F, Canon, Olympus, and a Pentax. $800 for a new camera good for multiple systems and a refurbished lens doesn't strike me as absurd either. What's a CLA on a F2, OM-1, and a LX cost?

Mistral75 · 11-07-2017, 03:45 PM - **2 Likes**

Originally posted by pathdoc

(...)

I like the modular approach, but I would like to know more (that they are not telling us) about how the aperture is going to be handled or signalled to the camera.

(...)

Originally posted by photoptimist

Looking at the pictures, there's no evidence of any aperture coupling or actuation at all. And it doesn't look the interchangeable lens plate or mirror box have room for any levers and aperture motors.

Thus, it seems like it uses manual stop-down focus & Av metering.

EDIT: Hmmm... there's a DoF preview button so maybe there must be an aperture actuator in there someplace......

Originally posted by timw4mail

That's on the mount plate itself, so that might simplify the design somewhat.

Originally posted by photoptimist

Yes, perhaps every lens plate has the required mechanical tidbits to link the DoF button to the aperture of the lens. And then there's an electromechanical actuator in the body that actuates the DoF button from inside when the shutter fires.

I asked the following question in the 'Comments' section of the Kickstarter page:

Originally posted by Mistral75:

Will Reflex and its I-Plates allow for automatic aperture pre-selection and full aperture metering or only for stopped-down metering, without any coupling between the camera and the lens's aperture?

and this is their answer:

Originally posted by REFLEX:

Good question, the only way for us to go around the specifics of each lens-system's aperture release control was to think in reverse. Each mount has an inverted DOF preview button, in other words, you dilate when you focus. To further answer your question, they are not coupled.

So the lens is stopped down unless you press a button on the plate, which opens the aperture.

**monochrome** · 11-07-2017, 04:00 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Mistral75

I asked the following question in the 'Comments' section of the Kickstarter page:

and this is their answer:

So the lens is stopped down unless you press a button on the plate, which opens the aperture.

So you meter stopped down; adjust aperture and/or shutter speed; change your grip; hold down the DoF preview button with one finger and focus with fingers of the other hand; release the DoF button; change your grip; and release the shutter?

I was born in 1955.

photoptimist · 11-07-2017, 04:07 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Mistral75

I asked the following question in the 'Comments' section of the Kickstarter page:

and this is their answer:

So the lens is stopped down unless you press a button on the plate, which opens the aperture.

Great sleuthing!

So instead of "stop-down" metering, one could say the camera offers "open-up" focusing and framing.

pathdoc · 11-07-2017, 04:37 PM - **3 Likes**

Originally posted by monochrome

So you meter stopped down; adjust aperture and/or shutter speed; change your grip; hold down the DoF preview button with one finger and focus with fingers of the other hand; release the DoF button; change your grip; and release the shutter?

I was born in 1955.

The aim is clearly to make the hipsters suffer for their art.

awscreo · 11-07-2017, 04:45 PM

Heh, I just passed a camera shop that was selling off their old unsold vintage stock, Pentax and Canon film bodies going for $10, with lenses and filters. One can pick up a complete film set for 30$

pathdoc · 11-07-2017, 05:09 PM

Originally posted by awscreo

Heh, I just passed a camera shop that was selling off their old unsold vintage stock, Pentax and Canon film bodies going for $10, with lenses and filters. One can pick up a complete film set for 30$

And that is why this Reflex thing is going to crash and burn, IMO. Anyone who's serious about getting into film is going to go for the cheap stuff which keeps on going and going, even though some of it's possibly older than their parents. I suspect the people who actually get this thing will look at the ease with which even their Spotmatic-using friends are taking pictures right next to them and grit their teeth in self-loathing rage.

The first thing they should have done was to bring out a fully mechanical camera (except for the meter) in Nikon F, M42 or K mount. Hell, they should have searched the length and breadth of China for the K1000 plant and struck a licensing deal with Ricoh, because people would fall over themselves to buy a new-build one. That would have done for the "affordable low end", and then they could have produced this hybrid beastie on the back of the profits.

11-07-2017, 08:34 AM - 1 Like	#1
Biro Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 1,200	New Reflex Film SLR Okay, this is pretty interesting... Reflex: Bringing back the analogue SLR camera by REFLEX ? Kickstarter Reflex Manual Film SLR Camera Launches on Kickstarter \| PhotographyBLOG

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11-07-2017, 08:54 AM	#2
timw4mail Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Driving a Mirage Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,670	Facinating and ambitious. Replacable mounts and backs. I really like that the standard mount is M42, and that it comes with a refurbished Helios 44 or Pentacon 50/1.8. Mount options include: M42, Nikon F, Olympus OM. Canon FD and Pentax PK. I do find it odd that there is no mention of the Pentaprism specs, though.

11-07-2017, 09:02 AM	#3
pathdoc Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2015 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,381	It is indeed, especially since the interchangeable backs open up the possibility of a digital option down the road. $670 CAD as I type this, to get it with an M42 mount and nearly $740 CAD for the mount of your choice. And they claim to desire an accessible price tag. Um... no. This is clearly pitched at the hipster market, but they must be anticipating some very rich hipsters: $4200 CAD for a gold plated version and nearly $1700 CAD for a titanium body. So much for being concerned about the lack of an affordable low-end film camera. I like the modular approach, but I would like to know more (that they are not telling us) about how the aperture is going to be handled or signalled to the camera. It's also not a good sign that their advertising is sorely in need of a good copy editor. I will be staying clear of this one. They sound like they're nowhere near far enough into development to risk the money. And everyone knows that the best affordable camera for the masses is one that will keep going when the electronics have fried and the batteries are dead. This one doesn't look like it even comes near that.

11-07-2017, 09:18 AM	#4
timw4mail Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Driving a Mirage Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,670	Originally posted by pathdoc I like the modular approach, but I would like to know more (that they are not telling us) about how the aperture is going to be handled or signalled to the camera. That's a good point, and by making M42 the standard mount, they almost seem to be trying to side-step that. Originally posted by pathdoc I will be staying clear of this one. They sound like they're nowhere near far enough into development to risk the money. And everyone knows that the best affordable camera for the masses is one that will keep going when the electronics have fried and the batteries are dead. This one doesn't look like it even comes near that. I think I'll be watching with interest. It is an all or nothing Kickstarter, so if they don't make their goal, you get your money back.

11-07-2017, 09:41 AM	#5
photoptimist Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2016 Photos: Albums Posts: 5,128	Originally posted by pathdoc I like the modular approach, but I would like to know more (that they are not telling us) about how the aperture is going to be handled or signalled to the camera. Looking at the pictures, there's no evidence of any aperture coupling or actuation at all. And it doesn't look the interchangeable lens plate or mirror box have room for any levers and aperture motors. Thus, it seems like it uses manual stop-down focus & Av metering. EDIT: Hmmm... there's a DoF preview button so maybe there must be an aperture actuator in there someplace......

11-07-2017, 10:50 AM	#6
dsmithhfx Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Toronto Posts: 5,153	Originally posted by Biro Okay, this is pretty interesting... Reflex: Bringing back the analogue SLR camera by REFLEX ? Kickstarter Reflex Manual Film SLR Camera Launches on Kickstarter \| PhotographyBLOG Cosina-Voigtländer did this a few years back with a very credible offering. This looks... less credible.

11-07-2017, 11:36 AM - 1 Like	#7
timw4mail Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Driving a Mirage Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,670	Originally posted by photoptimist EDIT: Hmmm... there's a DoF preview button so maybe there must be an aperture actuator in there someplace...... That's on the mount plate itself, so that might simplify the design somewhat.

11-07-2017, 12:08 PM	#8
photoptimist Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2016 Photos: Albums Posts: 5,128	Originally posted by timw4mail That's on the mount plate itself, so that might simplify the design somewhat. Yes, perhaps every lens plate has the required mechanical tidbits to link the DoF button to the aperture of the lens. And then there's an electromechanical actuator in the body that actuates the DoF button from inside when the shutter fires.

11-07-2017, 02:35 PM	#9
skierd Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Fairbanks, AK Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,472	I think it's a fantastic idea overall. I also have questions about the finder (prism or mirror, what focusing screens, etc), accuracy of the meter system, aperture control, and more. If it's a quality camera, it'll be great for mirrorless shooters with old manual lenses across various mounts who want to buy a film camera without investing in a Nikon F, Canon, Olympus, and a Pentax. $800 for a new camera good for multiple systems and a refurbished lens doesn't strike me as absurd either. What's a CLA on a F2, OM-1, and a LX cost?

11-07-2017, 03:45 PM - 2 Likes	#10
Mistral75 Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Paris, France Posts: 7,527	Originally posted by pathdoc (...) I like the modular approach, but I would like to know more (that they are not telling us) about how the aperture is going to be handled or signalled to the camera. (...) Originally posted by photoptimist Looking at the pictures, there's no evidence of any aperture coupling or actuation at all. And it doesn't look the interchangeable lens plate or mirror box have room for any levers and aperture motors. Thus, it seems like it uses manual stop-down focus & Av metering. EDIT: Hmmm... there's a DoF preview button so maybe there must be an aperture actuator in there someplace...... Originally posted by timw4mail That's on the mount plate itself, so that might simplify the design somewhat. Originally posted by photoptimist Yes, perhaps every lens plate has the required mechanical tidbits to link the DoF button to the aperture of the lens. And then there's an electromechanical actuator in the body that actuates the DoF button from inside when the shutter fires. I asked the following question in the 'Comments' section of the Kickstarter page: Originally posted by Mistral75: Will Reflex and its I-Plates allow for automatic aperture pre-selection and full aperture metering or only for stopped-down metering, without any coupling between the camera and the lens's aperture? and this is their answer: Originally posted by REFLEX: Good question, the only way for us to go around the specifics of each lens-system's aperture release control was to think in reverse. Each mount has an inverted DOF preview button, in other words, you dilate when you focus. To further answer your question, they are not coupled. So the lens is stopped down unless you press a button on the plate, which opens the aperture.

11-07-2017, 04:00 PM - 1 Like	#11
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	Originally posted by Mistral75 I asked the following question in the 'Comments' section of the Kickstarter page: and this is their answer: So the lens is stopped down unless you press a button on the plate, which opens the aperture. So you meter stopped down; adjust aperture and/or shutter speed; change your grip; hold down the DoF preview button with one finger and focus with fingers of the other hand; release the DoF button; change your grip; and release the shutter? I was born in 1955.

11-07-2017, 04:07 PM - 1 Like	#12
photoptimist Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2016 Photos: Albums Posts: 5,128	Originally posted by Mistral75 I asked the following question in the 'Comments' section of the Kickstarter page: and this is their answer: So the lens is stopped down unless you press a button on the plate, which opens the aperture. Great sleuthing! So instead of "stop-down" metering, one could say the camera offers "open-up" focusing and framing.

11-07-2017, 04:37 PM - 3 Likes	#13
pathdoc Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2015 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,381	Originally posted by monochrome So you meter stopped down; adjust aperture and/or shutter speed; change your grip; hold down the DoF preview button with one finger and focus with fingers of the other hand; release the DoF button; change your grip; and release the shutter? I was born in 1955. The aim is clearly to make the hipsters suffer for their art.

11-07-2017, 04:45 PM	#14
awscreo Veteran Member Join Date: May 2016 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,722	Heh, I just passed a camera shop that was selling off their old unsold vintage stock, Pentax and Canon film bodies going for $10, with lenses and filters. One can pick up a complete film set for 30$

11-07-2017, 05:09 PM	#15
pathdoc Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2015 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,381	Originally posted by awscreo Heh, I just passed a camera shop that was selling off their old unsold vintage stock, Pentax and Canon film bodies going for $10, with lenses and filters. One can pick up a complete film set for 30$ And that is why this Reflex thing is going to crash and burn, IMO. Anyone who's serious about getting into film is going to go for the cheap stuff which keeps on going and going, even though some of it's possibly older than their parents. I suspect the people who actually get this thing will look at the ease with which even their Spotmatic-using friends are taking pictures right next to them and grit their teeth in self-loathing rage. The first thing they should have done was to bring out a fully mechanical camera (except for the meter) in Nikon F, M42 or K mount. Hell, they should have searched the length and breadth of China for the K1000 plant and struck a licensing deal with Ricoh, because people would fall over themselves to buy a new-build one. That would have done for the "affordable low end", and then they could have produced this hybrid beastie on the back of the profits.