[photolady95]

At a minimum your mother will like your Photo!

Not likely, may be other mothers, mine's been dead for 20 years.

[Wheatfield]

A Year or so ago I came out of the closet and started posting to this sight after sucking up the shared knowledge for a while. I have offered my humble opinion, shared cost effective equipment , some cures for ailments etc. From the very beginning in about 95% of the time I have submitted photos to help explain these postings. I have noticed (with the exception of Post your Photos) that about 95% of the postings don't include any photos and a lot of times have to be asked to post an example. There is no such thing as a bad answer or a bad photo (in this instance) so please get a mit and get in the game and post an example of what you are talking about . THIS IS A PHOTOGRAPHY SITE PLEASE

Quite often, I have noticed that the photos posted don’t really help explain the subject, but just take up bandwidth. When someone posts a 600 x 800 pixel image that is downsized from a 24mp camera frame and then hit with unsharp mask a few times to show how sharp a lens is, they are, effectively, posting a bad photo. Sometimes, these posts run into half a dozen images that then get reposted over and over due to quotes in reply, compounding the problem and the irritation factor.
All I’m saying is that in a significant number of times that images get posted, they are counterproductive to the subject.

[honey bo bo]

Speaking of pictures. Honey Bo Bo is a guy named Bruce!? Who knew? Maybe we can't always depend on the photos

Its an AKA to confuse the Russian Hackers so they can't touch my Privates (In my Accounts).

[normhead]

You have to have a thick skin. I always try and post photos, and many times those who want to pick a fight just insult the photos. Especially those with an agenda. Canon and Nikon shooters intent on explaining why their gear is better.

The problem with that being, example photos are rarely perfect photos. If taken out of context they may well be not the most interesting photos.

If I had my way, every post on a photographic subject should have relevant examples. Want to compare the FA 100-300 with he DA 300, post a photo to show us what you are talking about. Want to claim one lens is the best lens. FIne. Show us images taken of all the other lenses in it's focal length to make your point, that illustrate why it's better.

Whenever I do that there's some surprises. Lenses that exceed expectation, lenses that disappoint. You know more because you did it.

Many of the discussions amount to "based on nothing but general anecdotal observations these are my feelings", and someone else responds with based on nothing but general anecdotal observations these are my feelings that are different than yours" . We spend a lot of time with people arguing their feelings are facts.

The obvious conclusions at least obvious for me, a lot of people with opinions have never done the work to validate those opinions, but are still dead certain they are right.

A lot of people think you can work this all out on paper. To me, and I've used this analogy many times, that's the difference between being able to consistently make a 3 point shot in basketball, and being able to work out the physics of what you have to do to make 3 point shot. One is muscle co-ordiation and body control, the other is a theoretical pencil and paper chore. Both will claim they "understand" the process. But only one of them can make a 3 point shot.

Photography is the same. Both will claim they understand the process, only one can take the picture. Chipping in a bit of theoretical info can on occasion be helpful, but sooner or later, you have to learn to shoot.

If I don't see images, I don't even know if the poster is full of nonsense. Let me see your work, then I'll evaluate your opinion.

I've heard it expressed that you don't have to show images to discuss photography. And maybe that's true, but whether I want to listen to anything you might say certainly depends on you showing me you have mastered a practical application for you theoretical knowledge.

If someone posted an absolutely ridiculous sounding technique with an awesome picture, I'd probably give it a try.

If someone posts something that sounds absolutely technically sound with a bad picture, odds are, I won't be trying that.

If someone posts with no picture, I tune it out. I have no idea what they are talking about, and I don't want to spend my life trying to figure it out. This is about consideration to people who are willing to help.

The only proof you have a good understanding of photography is really good pictures. If you don't have those, you're missing something.

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Last edited by normhead; 11-21-2017 at 08:51 AM.

[BigMackCam]

please get a mit and get in the game and post an example of what you are talking about . THIS IS A PHOTOGRAPHY SITE PLEASE

I agree that a photo can be extremely helpful in some posts, but I certainly wouldn't want to discourage people from posting if they don't have what they feel is a suitable photo to share. We all might appreciate a photo to illustrate a point, but we shouldn't expect one. It's a photography site, so any post about photography - with or without a photo - is valid, so long as it satisfies the forum rules

[stevebrot]

Does she have a name? LOL

Suzzie Bear. She is a Bernese Mountain Dog and is a real sweety. The photos were taken when she was still pretty much a puppy and I was actually pretty anxious about having her under the deck. Fortunately, she came right back out.


Steve

[honey bo bo]

It's a photography site,

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm

"The only proof you have a good understanding of photography is really good pictures. If you don't have those, you're missing something." Quote normhead - So True And Good Pictures like most of the Arts is Subjective you need at least one more Human other than your mother to say thats good and you are on the road to successful photography.

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Last edited by honey bo bo; 01-06-2018 at 10:47 AM.

[BigMackCam]

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm

"The only proof you have a good understanding of photography is really good pictures. If you don't have those, you're missing something." Quote normhead - So True And Good Pictures like most of the Arts is Subjective you need at least one more Human other than your mother to say thats good and you are on the road to successful photography.

I hear you. As I said, I agree that a picture can be very helpful indeed, and is usually appreciated - but it's absolutely not a requirement. Sometimes members simply have a question or problem they'd like help with, and a picture just isn't needed, nor are they looking for (or wishing to invite) comments on their photography. People are different in that respect.

One particular dislike I have is when one member states an opinion, and another throws down the gauntlet, denouncing said opinion unless proof is given in the form of a photo. We get that happen fairly regularly around here, and it occasionally has something of a mocking or elitist overtone to it - along the lines of "Hey, I post my photos all the time, so your opinion doesn't count unless you do too". I'm not keen on that, frankly.

So... yes, photos are helpful - but certainly not a condition of posting

[photolady95]

Suzzie Bear. She is a Bernese Mountain Dog and is a real sweety. The photos were taken when she was still pretty much a puppy and I was actually pretty anxious about having her under the deck. Fortunately, she came right back out.

Thanks Steve. From your statement, I can imagine her as a sweet dog.

[honey bo bo]

So... yes, photos are helpful - but certainly not a requirement

I agree totally and as I said in my original post where it enhances your post please a photo would be nice it adds a thousand words. As to your remarks about those 1% of the human race that cause 99% of the problems I agree with you. I was in business for myself for 50 years and met them all ; some twice unfortunately.

[Rondec]

I hear you. As I said, I agree that a picture can be very helpful indeed, and is usually appreciated - but it's absolutely not a requirement. Sometimes members simply have a question or problem they'd like help with, and a picture just isn't needed, nor are they looking for (or wishing to invite) comments on their photography. People are different in that respect.

One particular dislike I have is when one member states an opinion, and another throws down the gauntlet, denouncing said opinion unless proof is given in the form of a photo. We get that happen fairly regularly around here, and it occasionally has something of a mocking or elitist overtone to it - along the lines of "Hey, I post my photos all the time, so your opinion doesn't count unless you do too". I'm not keen on that, frankly.

So... yes, photos are helpful - but certainly not a condition of posting

The threads that seem to get the most love (or hate) are the ones about coming lenses like the DFA 50 and DFA 85 threads. I don't know how much photos add to those threads, except, I suppose when it comes to dealing with disparaging comments about older lenses like the FA 43, 77, DA *55, and so on. Even there, I don't always know what it means. I can show images with the DA *55 that make it look really good and images where it doesn't look so great. Is it a good lens? Well, I like it, but it certainly isn't perfect. Then again, we probably complain too much about gear when we should focus more on how to get the most out of what we do have.

[honey bo bo]

Then again, we probably complain too much about gear when we should focus more on how to get the most out of what we do have.

Including your God Given Talent which improves with every click of the shutter

[normhead]

One particular dislike I have is when one member states an opinion, and another throws down the gauntlet, denouncing said opinion unless proof is given in the form of a photo. We get that happen fairly regularly around here, and it occasionally has something of a mocking or elitist overtone to it - along the lines of "Hey, I post my photos all the time, so your opinion doesn't count unless you do too". I'm not keen on that, frankly.

It's not a matter of whether or not folks have the right to post. How many times have we responded to a post. Some guy on a rant about something or other that doesn't work. They repeat "Pentax AF sucks.' because they read it somewhere. People turn cartwheels trying to figure out settings the person can use is AF.c or AF.s, what level of focus hold etc. . The author finally posts a picture. In the picture posted we discover subject motion blur, or camera shake caused by too slow a shutter speed. An example of many such instances that happen on a regular basis.

denouncing said opinion unless proof is given in the form of a photo.

in an absolutely objective not emotionally charged world where statements are taken at face value without emotion "You're opinion is dead wrong and here's why" would be a valid view point. Asking for a photo so we have something to understand the opinion is just asking for clarification. I swear everyone has way too thin skins. Especially since there are folks who blame all their photographic short comings on the camera and come in with ridiculous attacks on every thing Pentax because they don't know how to get the shot they are after.

A lot of things could be completely cleared up with the presentation of a few well chosen photographs.

But to further throw down the gauntlet, every one on the forum that I've learned anything from can come up with photographic examples of what they are talking about. If the site is about photography, it's about photos.

If it's not about photos, then let's just hand out stars to everybody, give everyone the Pentax Forum Excellent Posts award to display in the footer, and pay no attention to the accuracy of the posts or opinions. They are all opinions, they are all equal. Let the rookies make up their own minds who's right and if they choose wrong the wrong advice and start blaming their camera and sell if for what they've been told is a better brand, it's no sweat off my back. Because every opinion is right here, and no one has to back up what they say.

Usually when I ask for a photograph, it's because what is expressed is so incomprehensible I have no clue what the author is trying to say or I know what they are trying to say and it doesn't make any sense. and I want some clarification.

One other advantage to posting images is self correction. Many times I have put forward a theory, only to realize i was wrong when I dug up a few images to support my case. Sometimes those images support the other guy's case.

Or if not dead wrong, I was presenting a case with ambiguous evidence to support it.

It's just basic politeness. If you want people's evaluation of your opinion, show us what you re talking about. If you don't, don't post. There's not many people here looking for the absolute truth you might feel compelled to had down to us from on high.

[BigMackCam]

It's not a matter of whether or not folks have the right to post. How many times have we responded to a post. Some guy on a rant about something or other that doesn't work. They repeat "Pentax AF sucks.' because they read it somewhere. People turn cartwheels trying to figure out settings the person can use is AF.c or AF.s, what level of focus hold etc. . The author finally posts a picture. In the picture posted we discover subject motion blur, or camera shake caused by too slow a shutter speed. An example of many such instances that happen on a regular basis.

Like I said, Norm, it's not a requirement for people to post photos - but I agree that it's very helpful if they do. Your example is a pretty extreme (though I'll admit, not uncommon) one, but even in that example, a member is entitled to their opinion. For the guy who claims "Pentax AF sucks", personally I would say "Well, that hasn't been my experience" and move on, rather than saying "You don't know what you're talking about, here's my proof, where's yours?!". If I believe someone is talking baloney, I'd rather end the exchange with that person in a friendly and courteous way, and move on. That's just me. I accept (and embrace) that we're all different

in an absolutely objective not emotionally charged world where statements are taken at face value without emotion "You're opinion is dead wrong and here's why" would be a valid view point. Asking for a photo so we have something to understand the opinion is just asking for clarification. I swear everyone has way too thin skins. Especially since there are folks who blame all their photographic short comings on the camera and come in with ridiculous attacks on every thing Pentax because they don't know how to get the shot they are after.

Yes, some people have very thin skins, some very thick, and some in-between. I always work on the assumption that someone is thin-skinned, and I word my responses to be constructive, helpful and non-confrontational. I never assume someone is thick-skinned, and I never talk to them that way. Even so, I very occasionally get it wrong and offend someone - but not often. Some people would say I'm treading on egg-shells unnecessarily, but I just see it as courtesy. I do get a little frustrated when I can see someone is blaming their shortcomings on their gear, but hey - most of us were there at one time or another

A lot of things could be completely cleared up with the presentation of a few well chosen photographs.

But to further throw down the gauntlet, every one on the forum that I've learned anything from can come up with photographic examples of what they are talking about. If the site is about photography, it's about photos.

If it's not about photos, then let's just hand out stars to everybody, give everyone the Pentax Forum Excellent Posts award to display in the footer, and pay no attention to the accuracy of the posts or opinions. They are all opinions, they are all equal. Let the rookies make up their own minds who's right and if they choose wrong the wrong advice and start blaming their camera and sell if for what they've been told is a better brand, it's no sweat off my back. Because every opinion is right here, and no one has to back up what they say.

We're all different, I guess. Each member wants something very personal from these forums. Some post lots of photos, some none. You post a lot, whereas I post very few - not because I'm uncomfortable doing so (I have and will continue to post them occasionally), but I'm really not looking for feedback on my photography on a day-to-day basis. I *will* post a photo if it helps in identifying a problem, but I won't usually post one when I express an opinion, and I don't particularly care if others disagree with that opinion (though I'm grateful when I can learn something from constructive and courteous disagreement). Heck, sometimes I'm not even in a position to post a photo without going through my images (some processed and catalogued, others not), but that won't stop me from posting an opinion or advice, and nor should it. Anyone who insists on a photo whenever I ask a question or state an opinion can simply ignore my posts. They don't need to throw down a gauntlet

Usually when I ask for a photograph, it's because what is expressed is so incomprehensible I have no clue what the author is trying to say or I know what they are trying to say and it doesn't make any sense. and I want some clarification.

One other advantage to posting images is self correction. Many times I have put forward a theory, only to realize i was wrong when I dug up a few images to support my case. Sometimes those images support the other guy's case.

Or if not dead wrong, I was presenting a case with ambiguous evidence to support it.

It's just basic politeness. If you want people's evaluation of your opinion, show us what you re talking about. If you don't, don't post. There's not many people here looking for the absolute truth you might feel compelled to had down to us from on high.

With regard to the bit in bold above, absolutely not, Norm - that's not a requirement or condition of posting here, and that's why it's not in the forum rules. Everyone is entitled to post here within those. You and I can choose not to read or participate in those posts, of course

I think we've moved away from the OP's original post somewhat, so I'll leave it there.

[Madaboutpix]

To my mind, the forum policy Mike has so elegantly outlined above is sure an important factor in making this site as enjoyable and unique as it is, and it should be commended.