[bm75]

this is a composite that was used as a calendar on a 16:9 display...24 inch I think
it is heavily edited to look like a watercolor

I like this picture very very much. I like the watercolor style and I suppose this is a lot of work in PP ; the result is bright. Well done!

[normhead]

Art, is the arrangement of subject and surroundings to appeal to the human eye. Photography for the most part is Art. We can end this whole discussion by making the point and devoting people into two camps.

If you follow or incorporate the 5 basic elements of visual communication, the six principals of organizing basic composition and the five favourite rules of pictorials composition, then you are altering reality to increase human enjoyment of the image, and you are creating art. If you completely ignore that and take random photos from various angles position etc. completely randomly using some kind of random position generator. then you are recording reality, randomly and without regard to human enjoyment.

That would be random reflection of reality. I know of know one who would do that. Even chimps provided with cameras and taught how to use them develop a recognizable style unique to their perspective.

People simply don't have the ability to shoot photos of "reality" unaffected by human reality. What we are seeing here is the disdain for art exhibited by folks who see them selves as above "that kind of thing." I've taught students who went on to engineering careers who were totally incapable of understanding that despite their apparent absolute loathing of artistic types, photgraphy is an artistic enterprise.

And I suspect that's where this breaks down. Those who understand how pervasive art is in life, ands those who believe there are technical pursuits independent of art. There those who pretend they are aloof, above caring about the way our brains organize information and catering too it. They are in error, both from the perspective of how much the world is organized as art, be it cars phones automobiles what ever, and their perception of themselves as being all of rom it all.

Photography is perhaps the one visual art form that allows those so inclined to believe they are doing something else besides creating art, regardless of how wrong those beliefs may be.

[DeadJohn]

...the disdain for art exhibited by folks who see them selves as above "that kind of thing."...

"My art does not care about art, and therefore is more arty than art can be. I have transcended art."

Has anyone tried a "This is Spinal Tap" analog for the photography world?

[ccc_]

Art, is the arrangement of subject and surroundings to appeal to the human eye. Photography for the most part is Art. We can end this whole discussion by making the point and devoting people into two camps.

If you follow or incorporate the 5 basic elements of visual communication, the six principals of organizing basic composition and the five favourite rules of pictorials composition, then you are altering reality to increase human enjoyment of the image, and you are creating art. If you completely ignore that and take random photos from various angles position etc. completely randomly using some kind of random position generator. then you are recording reality, randomly and without regard to human enjoyment.

That would be random reflection of reality. I know of know one who would do that. Even chimps provided with cameras and taught how to use them develop a recognizable style unique to their perspective.

People simply don't have the ability to shoot photos of "reality" unaffected by human reality. What we are seeing here is the disdain for art exhibited by folks who see them selves as above "that kind of thing." I've taught students who went on to engineering careers who were totally incapable of understanding that despite their apparent absolute loathing of artistic types, photgraphy is an artistic enterprise.

And I suspect that's where this breaks down. Those who understand how pervasive art is in life, ands those who believe there are technical pursuits independent of art. There those who pretend they are aloof, above caring about the way our brains organize information and catering too it. They are in error, both from the perspective of how much the world is organized as art, be it cars phones automobiles what ever, and their perception of themselves as being all of rom it all.

Photography is perhaps the one visual art form that allows those so inclined to believe they are doing something else besides creating art, regardless of how wrong those beliefs may be.

I believe you believe all this

however "human enjoyment" is not a universal goal
random spontaneous acts do occur...even in "art"

some people really won't or can't see "art"

the untrained "artist" will not automatically create work that meets the criteria you set forth
often they will create jarring unbalanced work

training and teaching often mitigate a chaotic vision yielding results that please the ???? (pick your word)

I personally appreciate (not necessarily enjoy) the quirky and idiosyncratic work that shows up from time to time
to me that is the fun of it all

I know it's a cliché but I really did have an instructor who started a class by tossing the text out the window
he said...no rules...no limits
he was wrong...we all come with limits
however that year some of the best (and worst) work I have ever witnessed was created
it wasn't anarchy (though I head in that direction)
it was a lesson in thinking and the effect that rules and limits have on it

most people require structure
they need to be told what is pretty or good or bad

others just do
not caring much about the outcome
that attitude applied to "art" is not a bad thing

a world full of people like me would cause me concern and maybe even fear
if I was really good at any of the things I pursue, you might say I had a spark of genius
as it happens I seem to level out at average, so I guess i'm just weird

[jacamar]

to increase human enjoyment of the image

Though I suppose most of the images on this forum attempt to trend towards the "enjoyment" side of things, my understanding is that enjoyment would be only one of the things art does. It can also be enlightening, subversive, disturbing, inspiring, educational, insidious, disruptive and any number of other things, without necessarily being enjoyable. Maybe in some cases design elements help the piece to be more effective in what the artist is trying to do, rather than making it more enjoyable.