[BruceBanner]

I'm having computer problems today, 3hrs spent trouble shooting a wide system spread stuttering/lag problem on Win 10. Long story short I am resetting PC just now to see if that helps, after that it's a fresh install... <sigh>
I'm almost 40, I've been with computers since the beginning, I love them but as I am getting older my threshold to deal with the constant problems that seem to occur quarterly is testing my patience. The more you demand from your machine the more problems it creates. Gaming, Audio and now Photography, things just go wrong.
Don't get me wrong, when technology works it's great, but it's only great for awhile .
I know people who will say "try this PC, or use this MAC", but I have friends who use everything and they all too have problems time to time.

Well... it just got me thinking, I don't know how much longer I can be bothered with them. My father (a retired software programmer) hardly uses them anymore, and I can totally understand and relate as to why.

From a photography perspective (and now onto the actual subject matter point), I use a computer for Post Processing (and then of course distribution of images). I wonder if I could give up on PP entirely. It got me thinking, 'shooting RAW... has it made me a 'bad' photographer?', that is... I get so much leway with PP Raw files have I neglected to learn some basics in photography (mainly controlling light better) etc.?

I never shot film, I only got into shooting properly in the last 2 yrs, and it's always been RAW.
The K-1 seems to have a heck of a lot of Jpg processing tools to use, I wonder if relying purely on the built in camera processing is enough?

So... is there any Jpg shooters out there that are outputting a high quality workflow? It appears to me some tricks can't be done, such as stacking files in PS etc, but I do wonder...

What if you shot Jpg only, and got paid for weddings and such, and you accomplish a high standard because... well because you've just gotten very good at it. Imagine the time saving of not PP images?!

I wonder if I could move away from some technologies, perhaps strip it back to a decent phone and camera and be done with that...

Anyway, just an open discussion here, wade in and give your 2 cents to my Sunday brain drivel.

Bruce

[automorphism]

Raw is pretty good for extra highlight and shadow detail, but without it you could take bracketed shots. Lots of the time I rarely need the features of Raw. In fact, most of the time, straight out of camera is pretty good if you're careful. I only keep shooting Raw because I enjoy editing immensely. If you don't enjoy it as an independent activity, you can get great results without it too. Some things like selective dodging, creative colour enhancements, etc. won't be possible, but if you can live without it, great.

I only suggest perhaps trying out a different system, like a Mac. Maybe you'd actually like it? Everyone has problems with every system, but I've always hated Windows the most.

[SpecialK]

Jpg only? No way. Good luck "getting it right in the camera" on a consistent basis. I doubt there is any jpg that would not benefit from some form of PP even if only straightening, cropping and cloning - not counting exposure, contrast, blacks, or other values. Post-processing is the least time-consuming fraction of the entire process - going out, setting up, coming back, chimping, renaming, uploading, backing up, etc. Some people think shooting raw is the lazy way - I think it is the opposite.

[thazooo]

I shoot RAW on my Pentax and JPG on my Oly. Minimal processing on both. I'm from film so the habits have carried over to Digi. Try to get it right in camera.
Just a thought, I keep a current disc image of my Windoze drive so that when the Wonders of Windoze happen I can load the image back in and I'm running again. Takes about a half hour.

[microlight]

Interesting perspective on digi/film/get it right in camera. My perspective is a little different in that to me, digi RAW and film are very similar; with film you had a dark room, and edited during printing - dodging etc., whereas with RAW, your pooter is your darkroom. So RAW to me equates to what you do with film, whereas shooting JPGs in camera is more like shooting with a Polaroid film camera as there is little to no chance of being able to edit and maintain image quality. YMMV.

[beachgardener]

Getting the exposures right, and I know you have worked on this, then there is very minimal raw processing needed to produce a fine looking image, unless artistic methods are used later in post process, that may extend the time and processing power..

Free up. LinuxMint host with Win. 10 or 7 in VirtualBox would probably be more stable, considering that the hardware is good. But if tied financially to windows and related software this may not be viable.

[BruceBanner]

Raw is pretty good for extra highlight and shadow detail, but without it you could take bracketed shots. Lots of the time I rarely need the features of Raw. In fact, most of the time, straight out of camera is pretty good if you're careful. I only keep shooting Raw because I enjoy editing immensely. If you don't enjoy it as an independent activity, you can get great results without it too. Some things like selective dodging, creative colour enhancements, etc. won't be possible, but if you can live without it, great.

I only suggest perhaps trying out a different system, like a Mac. Maybe you'd actually like it? Everyone has problems with every system, but I've always hated Windows the most.

I not averse to Mac, I've owned iPhones etc and have friends on Macs, but I've never really gravitated towards them as I was (and still am) a gamer, and that meant Windows (for a long time, I still think Macs struggle in this regard?). I mean I have a 144hz monitor for example, fairly serious on that front, but I'm getting to the point I could walk away and 'grow up' (lol) if it meant I could use a different OS that ran into less problems. Problem with Apple for me tho is really the price point, it's just outta my league. Equivalent specs can be had for far less if you can source and build yourself (as well as upgrading hardware over time).

Now that the reset of the PC has failed (issue still persists), I am faced with a complete fresh reinstall of Win 10, and I'll have to yank out the Ethernet cable at some point to stop it doing an update to see if that was a cause... honestly at this point I'm considering Linux... (but then that means goodbye PS, LR, Topaz Presets, Adobe Portfolio....

Jpg only? No way. Good luck "getting it right in the camera" on a consistent basis. I doubt there is any jpg that would not benefit from some form of PP even if only straightening, cropping and cloning - not counting exposure, contrast, blacks, or other values. Post-processing is the least time-consuming fraction of the entire process - going out, setting up, coming back, chimping, renaming, uploading, backing up, etc. Some people think shooting raw is the lazy way - I think it is the opposite.

I've never felt RAW was lazy, I agree, there's far more involved. My issue with the editing side of things is it becomes 'artistic' to a point. You could keep nit picking over it, and indeed you also get better at it, so that 2yr old edits now don't look as good to you as they once did before! Are you ver fully satisfied with them? I liken it a little to EQ tweaking in the audio world. Sure listening to stuff Flat is nice, but once you open up that EQ and tweak a little here and a little there you get something that might sound better, but then the tweaking can just go on and on and on... when is it enough?

I shoot RAW on my Pentax and JPG on my Oly. Minimal processing on both. I'm from film so the habits have carried over to Digi. Try to get it right in camera.
Just a thought, I keep a current disc image of my Windoze drive so that when the Wonders of Windoze happen I can load the image back in and I'm running again. Takes about a half hour.

Yep i'm good with creating images, I use Acronis, sadly its telling me my .tib file is corrupt and not able to restore (even when I do an extra validation process after every backup I make.... honestly sometimes I wonder why I bother at all... money down the drain.)

[beachgardener]

I'm considering Linux... (but then that means goodbye PS, LR, Topaz Presets,

run windows in virtual box, plenty of software available on Linux, just start up virtual box when needed and use software, or run it integrated, best of both worlds.

[Unregistered User 8]

Hi Bruce, just a thought mate. You could always save jpeg to card 1 ( 16gb ) and RAW to card 2 ( 32gb ) and make whatever custom settings for jpeg you want to try, then compare the images. I think that you will be surprised how good you can get jpegs with a little tweaking in-camera. If nothing else, it would be an experiment for you to be able to judge your own choice between the 2. Good luck.

[Paul the Sunman]

I'm a lot older than you Bruce, but I find the thought of jpeg-only appalling. To me photography consists of many stages: identifying a shot; setting up the camera to produce the desired effects; but then selecting the shots to work on; and post-processing. I am unwilling to forego the last of these.

In an earlier life I processed my own B&W in the darkroom, where I could choose paper, contrast, dodge and burn etc. I then essentially left photography for many years and returned in the digital age, where all of this is so much easier and cleaner. I would never want to go back.

Having said all this, I do sympathise with your frustrations with Windows 10. I have to look after my wife's Windows 10 machine with its many foibles, and it is certainly a distressing experience.

[jbinpg]

The religious wars between jpeg and raw shooters have been fought many times on this forum. Just do a targetted search if you want to waste too much time. But beachgardener has it right: running Windows in a virtual box on linux is the way to go these days. Best of both worlds.

[BruceBanner]

Thanks for the replies. Welp! my PC is dead partially because the fresh reinstall didn't fix the issue (surely 99% chance hardware related but also because I got in a rage and tore it to pieces and its currently lying in pieces. (I do have anger issues after all... dur my username!).

I am now needing to get a new 'something' so I'll continue this thread for suggestions over in 'General Talk' and see what some of you have to suggest

Re: Jpg shooters, I was also wondering if there were any 'famous' or well established jpg shooters out there, I'm really not into photography to the degree that I know who this person is or that etc. so yeh just wondered.

Ok see you over in General Talk once I've made my post, hopefully some of you can suggest some options as I research this.

[BigMackCam]

If you haven't tried this already, Bruce, why not shoot RAW+ for a while so that you have both RAW and JPEG files? See how you get on with only the JPEGs, knowing that you still have the RAW files if you're unhappy with the results.

Personally, I wouldn't want to give up RAW. I don't mind JPEGs for snapshots, but there are too many occasions where the exposure decisions I intentionally make wouldn't result in a well-exposed straight-out-of-camera shot (usually because I'm exposing for a certain element of the scene). Also, quite a lot of my shooting is at higher ISO settings, and the camera's noise reduction algorithms fall way short of those in good RAW development tools such as Lightroom, Darktable etc. The same is true for sharpening... I'm just not keen on the camera's built-in sharpening results, and I prefer to have far greater control over which parts of an image are sharpened and to what extent. But the biggest concern for me with JPEGs is that any chosen settings are baked into the files and can't be removed. With RAW files, you can always go back to the original unadulterated shot.

[BigMackCam]

If you haven't tried this already, Bruce, why not shoot RAW+ for a while so that you have both RAW and JPEG files? (EDIT: I note that @pjv has already suggested this). See how you get on with only the JPEGs, knowing that you still have the RAW files if you're unhappy with the results.

Personally, I wouldn't want to give up RAW. I don't mind JPEGs for snapshots, but there are too many occasions where the exposure decisions I intentionally make wouldn't result in a well-exposed straight-out-of-camera shot (usually because I'm exposing for a certain element of the scene). Also, quite a lot of my shooting is at higher ISO settings, and the camera's noise reduction algorithms fall way short of those in good RAW development tools such as Lightroom, Darktable etc. The same is true for sharpening... I'm just not keen on the camera's built-in sharpening results, and I prefer to have far greater control over which parts of an image are sharpened and to what extent. But the biggest concern for me with JPEGs is that any chosen settings are baked into the files and can't be removed. With RAW files, you can always go back to the original unadulterated shot.

[LensBeginner]

There are so many things to control when shooting JPEG other than exposure... it works for those who use it most (e.g. sport photographers), because they usually deal with only one thing, in a single environment, in stable lighting conditions.
They set the camera up with some test shots at the beginning of the event (contrast, saturation, WB, tint, sharpness, exposure) and only have to make small adjustments (or none at all if, e.g. indoor or under floodlight).

If you're doing a promenade and shoot portraits, panoramas, flowers, animals, indoor exhibitions etc. all in one session, good luck shooting JPEG!

My 0.1c