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02-13-2018, 02:33 PM   #1
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Lens and gear selection help and sightseeing help for Europe trip

I need some help in choosing gear for a five week trip to Europe. This is a reward to my wife for all her hard recovery work!

We will be gone for about five weeks spanning the month of May. The tour itinerary includes London, Stratford upon Avon, York, Durham, Hadrian’s Wall, Jedburgh, Edinburgh, St. Andrews, Pitlochry, Inverness, Spean Bridge, Glasgow, Greta Green, Windermere, Liverpool, Tintern, Bristol, Bath, Stonehenge, Dover, Calais, Paris, Lucerne, St. Gothard, Venice, Florence, And Rome. We also have seven free days in London, two in Paris, and three in Rome.

As for gear, I thought about bringing my DA* 16-50/2.8, DA 10-17/3.5-4.5 fish-eye, and my just acquired Sigma 10-20/3.5. My rational is that I could have the 16-50 for general outdoor use for landscapes and points of interest. It is also WR, which is nice given the likelihood of rain. For crowded and narrow streets and indoors I would have the 10-20. For very tight places I could use the 10-17.

I have CPL filters for the non fisheye lenses. Also I have an ND grad, ND filters, split-field and a doublet close-up (canon 500d) for the 16-50.

I have a choice of two tripods: an 11kg gorilla pod or a travel giottos 8240b carbon fiber. Which would work better? I’ve never used the gorilla pod.

I want to bring my K3 with the K5 as a backup. For IR I will bring a converted Lumix P+S. I am leaving my IR modded DSLR at home.

Are these the proper items? Are f2.8 and f3.5 fast enough for indoors of cathedrals, palaces, and museums with the k3? Should I also bring a fast 50mm or 35mm?

Do I need other focal lengths? Is 50mm long enough? Should I bring the 70mm or the 100mm?


My gear list is in my signature below.
————————-

Are there any unusual or interesting places in or near London, Paris, or Rome that tourists normally don’t go? I have 12 extra days to fill.

Thank you,
Lance

02-13-2018, 04:00 PM - 1 Like   #2
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First - I loved London a long time ago. Now --- not so much. I recently spent a week in London and a week in Paris. I would rather have moved several days from the London part of the trip to Paris. London has become so crowded and that has diminished the fun. Every venue is packed - at least that was my experience. Between my previous trip and my last trip a lot of time passed and London's population soared back up almost 30%. This may have soured me on the situation.

As for your gear - the 10-20 and the 10-17 seem to overlap a lot. I would pick one. The speed - I think you'll be fine. I used a Panasonic LX-7 (f/1.4-2.3 lens) with a small sensor (limited ISO) with the better iso range of the K-3/K-5 you shouldn't have problems with the 16-50 at all. I didn't use anything other than a cheap plastic knock off gorilla pod on my last trip by my camera was very light.
02-13-2018, 05:02 PM - 1 Like   #3
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Good news for your wife recovery and hope you have fun over there.
I was planning for Italy trip this year but it looks like I have to postpone to early next year instead, so just to share what I had for the trip. Take it with a grain of salt.


Last time I went there with K5, a Gorillapod and 4 primes, 15, 35 ,50, 100 mm I don’t have much problem with f2.8 or even f4 in large indoor cathedrals and use gorillapod if the light is really low. Pentax Dynamic range is really helpful here. 15 is very good for the outdoor market and typical street shot over there because they often crowded and narrow with a lot of tall building left and right. I think I use 15 for 60%, 35 for 30%, 50 for 9% or less and 100 for the rest. The last couple of days I took only 15 with me. It is enjoyable to walk with lighter gear.


Next trip I plan to take only 21 mm, a Gorillapod and buy a Theta, or just a Theta and a phone. I feel like I want to take it slow, and spend more time with the wife than taking a photo this time. And the pocket-size Theta camera seems to be a perfect idea for traveling. One snap and I get 360 views which can be used as a VR with a headset.
02-13-2018, 05:47 PM - 1 Like   #4
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Sounds like an absolutely wonderful trip. I am a full frame shooter so I am not to familiar with the lenses listed so I'll simply weigh in on the F-stop. My wife and I did a trip through New Mexico a few years back where we visited and shot in a lot of church interiors and museums, some of which were poorly lit. I had the Canon 17-40 f4 at the time and I did find it somewhat constricting. If you have the chance to bring a wide angle that is 2.8 or better I think it will help for the indoor shots. Have a wonderful time and best wishes for continued recovery. From your gear list I'd consider taking the 24 1.4.

02-13-2018, 07:02 PM - 1 Like   #5
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My last trip to Europe with my K5iis, I brought my DA16-50, DA10-17 and my FA100mm f2.8 macro. I primarily switched between the 16-50 and 11-17. In reality I probably only needed one of those lenses. On my last trip with my K-1, I only took my D-FA24-70. I was more than enough. However, no matter what lenses you end up deciding on, make sure to have a good tripod. You can't get good interior shots with out one.

Image was taken with the DA10-17 at 17mm.
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02-13-2018, 07:47 PM - 1 Like   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by lmd91343 Quote
I thought about bringing my DA* 16-50/2.8, DA 10-17/3.5-4.5 fish-eye, and my just acquired Sigma 10-20/3.5. Should I bring the 70mm or the 100mm?
The 100 over the 70, and the other 3 should do it. I would be leaning toward the 10-20 the most.
02-13-2018, 10:20 PM - 1 Like   #7
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On my eight week trip to Europe last spring I took
K-3II
DA* 16-50mm
DA* 50-135mm
8mm Ultrawide
Four batteries, One charger.
My very old (circa 2008) laptop with Lightroom and a brand new 512GB external SSD.

I had a mini tripod (never used), no flash.

Remember, you have to carry all this stuff around. We mostly used public transportation and carrying more than two bags on a trolley is not a great deal of "fun".

Oh - I returned with just over 6,000 images.
02-14-2018, 06:00 AM - 1 Like   #8
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Central London is indeed crowded, busy and not very pleasant, outside the center not so bad. The great parks like Kew in the west and Greenwich in the east are worth a visit - in good weather! The added benefit of Greenwich is you can take a boat ride to get there and there is much more than just the park. Museums in Kensington are good depending on your interests.
A more radical proposal is to visit Portsmouth for the Historic Dockyards and particularly the Mary Rose. This is a remarkable conservation story and and a great exhibit. It can be busy so it pays to book ahead. You can easily get to Portsmouth on the train from London and it is a part of England which is not on your itinerary. http://www.historicdockyard.co.uk/

02-15-2018, 04:54 PM - 1 Like   #9
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11kg gorillapod?! Sounds overkill if it's the weight or the load capacity... assuming it's more sensible than that, I'd say take it rather than a tripod; you won't use it often but it'll be good for the occasional interior or night shot. Add a cheap IR remote - I use mine a lot, much more convenient than the self-timer. I'd say take your 55-300 myself, but I'm a telephoto sort of person...

You don't say how you're getting around, which might affect recommendations. Pretty much everywhere is on the beaten track these days, say sorry. You might want to consider Oxford, Cambridge, St Albans or even Coventry (the contrast of the old bombed-out cathedral and the new one might appeal). Also the Glenfinnan viaduct and surroundings while you're in the vicinity of Spean Bridge.

Cheers

Jonathan
02-20-2018, 01:21 PM - 1 Like   #10
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Original Poster
Thank you all very much for the feedback. I’ve got lots of things to worry about and your advice here lessens that a bit.

QuoteOriginally posted by UncleVanya Quote
First - I loved London a long time ago. Now --- not so much. I recently spent a week in London and a week in Paris. I would rather have moved several days from the London part of the trip to Paris. London has become so crowded and that has diminished the fun. Every venue is packed - at least that was my experience. Between my previous trip and my last trip a lot of time passed and London's population soared back up almost 30%. This may have soured me on the situation.

As for your gear - the 10-20 and the 10-17 seem to overlap a lot. I would pick one. The speed - I think you'll be fine. I used a Panasonic LX-7 (f/1.4-2.3 lens) with a small sensor (limited ISO) with the better iso range of the K-3/K-5 you shouldn't have problems with the 16-50 at all. I didn't use anything other than a cheap plastic knock off gorilla pod on my last trip by my camera was very light.
I fear the venues being crowded. With my wife’s mobility issues, this is my biggest worry.

Thanks for the info on the lens speed. That was my biggest camera worry. I thought about bringing my 24/1.4, but that is huge and heavy. My 50/1.4 and 55/1.2 are too heavy also.

I think I am going to stick with both wa zooms. The 10-17 covers 180*-100*; the 10-20 covers 102*-64*; and the 16-50 covers 83*-31*. The 10-17 has a fisheye projection and the 10-20 has a rectilinear projection accounting for the confusion. So there is almost no overlap.

QuoteOriginally posted by pakinjapan Quote
Good news for your wife recovery and hope you have fun over there.
I was planning for Italy trip this year but it looks like I have to postpone to early next year instead, so just to share what I had for the trip. Take it with a grain of salt.


Last time I went there with K5, a Gorillapod and 4 primes, 15, 35 ,50, 100 mm I don’t have much problem with f2.8 or even f4 in large indoor cathedrals and use gorillapod if the light is really low. Pentax Dynamic range is really helpful here. 15 is very good for the outdoor market and typical street shot over there because they often crowded and narrow with a lot of tall building left and right. I think I use 15 for 60%, 35 for 30%, 50 for 9% or less and 100 for the rest. The last couple of days I took only 15 with me. It is enjoyable to walk with lighter gear.


Next trip I plan to take only 21 mm, a Gorillapod and buy a Theta, or just a Theta and a phone. I feel like I want to take it slow, and spend more time with the wife than taking a photo this time. And the pocket-size Theta camera seems to be a perfect idea for traveling. One snap and I get 360 views which can be used as a VR with a headset.
I am so proud of my wife. She has gone from 50% paralyzed to her current terrific state in a little over two years. She has had to learn to walk, talk, swallow, eat and many other things all over again.

Knowing that you used focal lengths of 50mm or less for 99% of your images. I am not so worried now about longer focal lengths now.

I would prefer to use my limited primes (15, 21, 40, 70) and fa50 instead of the zooms, but I feel I may not have the free time to be changing lenses frequently.

QuoteOriginally posted by travelswsage Quote
Sounds like an absolutely wonderful trip. I am a full frame shooter so I am not to familiar with the lenses listed so I'll simply weigh in on the F-stop. My wife and I did a trip through New Mexico a few years back where we visited and shot in a lot of church interiors and museums, some of which were poorly lit. I had the Canon 17-40 f4 at the time and I did find it somewhat constricting. If you have the chance to bring a wide angle that is 2.8 or better I think it will help for the indoor shots. Have a wonderful time and best wishes for continued recovery. From your gear list I'd consider taking the 24 1.4.
You are validating my desire to take my two UWA zooms. That 24/1.4 is so big and heavy but I really want to take it. I am so torn.

QuoteOriginally posted by david94903 Quote
My last trip to Europe with my K5iis, I brought my DA16-50, DA10-17 and my FA100mm f2.8 macro. I primarily switched between the 16-50 and 11-17. In reality I probably only needed one of those lenses. On my last trip with my K-1, I only took my D-FA24-70. I was more than enough. However, no matter what lenses you end up deciding on, make sure to have a good tripod. You can't get good interior shots with out one.

Image was taken with the DA10-17 at 17mm.
Wow, what a shot!

The tripod issue is most perplexing for me. I have the 11 pound capacity gorilla pod with a Manfrotto 494 head. It is not 11kg capacity! Oops! It is not very big even though it is the largest joby. It is lower than my knee. It is not as stable as I would like. I have no fear of it failing with a k3 and a 16-50/2.8. It size means I am more likely to take it with me and therefore use it.

My second potential tripod is a carbon fiber Giottos with a Manfrotto 496 head. It weighs less than two pounds and folds to 20 inches with the head. It is slow to set up and needs to have my camera bag suspended to be stable. It is larger and more cumbersome to carry than the joby gorilla pod. I have to stoop a bit to use it.

You also rarely used your long lens.

QuoteOriginally posted by SpecialK Quote
The 100 over the 70, and the other 3 should do it. I would be leaning toward the 10-20 the most.
I agree that if I bring a long lens it should be the 100 wr. The 70 limited is tempting because it is so small.

QuoteOriginally posted by PDL Quote
On my eight week trip to Europe last spring I took
K-3II
DA* 16-50mm
DA* 50-135mm
8mm Ultrawide
Four batteries, One charger.
My very old (circa 2008) laptop with Lightroom and a brand new 512GB external SSD.

I had a mini tripod (never used), no flash.

Remember, you have to carry all this stuff around. We mostly used public transportation and carrying more than two bags on a trolley is not a great deal of "fun".

Oh - I returned with just over 6,000 images.

Only 6,000 images? That’s all? Why didn’t you spend at least a little time to take some photos?

What did you take photos of with your 50-135? Close-ups at ceremonies? Architectural details? Landmarks at a distance?

This is the camera bag I will be taking:
Domke F-6 Smaller Canvas Camera Bag, Ruggedwear 70060A
The four lens pocket has been replaced by a two lens pocket. It will be the single small bag I will carry.

Everything must fit in it, except my backup camera, L bracket, and tripod which will be in my day pack on the tour bus on tour days. (20 days) On some days not on tour, I might not even be able to take my daypack and its contents. (10 days)

I have a bad back and the doctor has given me a six pound limit on my camera bag and daypack. Also the need to help my wife move about and keep her safe I need both hands free most of the time. My day pack will stay on the tour bus, so it’s weight does not count toward my limit.

My K3, 16-50, 10-20, battery, extra battery SD cards, cleaning supplies, filters, IR converted Lumix ZS50, Domke F6 bag, Sekonic 308 meter total a little less than five and one half pounds. That still allows me to take the 70 limited at 4.5 ounces if I wanted. The bag will be light.

QuoteOriginally posted by roberrl Quote
Central London is indeed crowded, busy and not very pleasant, outside the center not so bad. The great parks like Kew in the west and Greenwich in the east are worth a visit - in good weather! The added benefit of Greenwich is you can take a boat ride to get there and there is much more than just the park. Museums in Kensington are good depending on your interests.
A more radical proposal is to visit Portsmouth for the Historic Dockyards and particularly the Mary Rose. This is a remarkable conservation story and and a great exhibit. It can be busy so it pays to book ahead. You can easily get to Portsmouth on the train from London and it is a part of England which is not on your itinerary. http://www.historicdockyard.co.uk/

I want to see the Mary Rose. I’ve read about it. Another part of England to see!

The museums you speak of, are they the British Museum, Museum of London, British Library, Churchill war room? Those are on my list. We will be in Kensington our first for days. The British Museum is on our tour.

QuoteOriginally posted by h4yn0nnym0u5e Quote
11kg gorillapod?! Sounds overkill if it's the weight or the load capacity... assuming it's more sensible than that, I'd say take it rather than a tripod; you won't use it often but it'll be good for the occasional interior or night shot. Add a cheap IR remote - I use mine a lot, much more convenient than the self-timer. I'd say take your 55-300 myself, but I'm a telephoto sort of person...

You don't say how you're getting around, which might affect recommendations. Pretty much everywhere is on the beaten track these days, say sorry. You might want to consider Oxford, Cambridge, St Albans or even Coventry (the contrast of the old bombed-out cathedral and the new one might appeal). Also the Glenfinnan viaduct and surroundings while you're in the vicinity of Spean Bridge.

Cheers

Jonathan
Oh my! I meant to write 11 pound gorilla pod, kilogram! Sorry!

Oxford and Cambridge are on my want list. We have eight free days in England, so I know we can squeeze them in. My wife is set on Cambridge already. I think the viaduct is on the tour.

I’d love to take the 55-300, but at one pound, that would push the bag weight over my six pound limit. I definitely could take 70. The bag has the space and I am still under the weight limit. The 100 WR pushes me up to the weight limit and and I might have enough room in the bag. What do you use the long lens for?
02-20-2018, 02:24 PM - 1 Like   #11
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Here's an idea of how the tiny sensor of the Panasonic did in some darker spaces.

Notre Dame / St. Chapelle / Roman Ruins | Flickr

Bear in mind that while the lens is fast the sensor isn't. So imagine taking a shot that was f/2.3 at ISO 200 and switching it to f/4.6 @ ISO 400... or higher. These are also the SOOC jpgs. The RAW's provided more recovery of shadows and better detail. Still this is a small sensor camera with limitations. The idea is to show the kind of EV that you may be working with.
02-20-2018, 04:11 PM - 1 Like   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by lmd91343 Quote
Oh my! I meant to write 11 pound gorilla pod, kilogram! Sorry!

Oxford and Cambridge are on my want list. We have eight free days in England, so I know we can squeeze them in. My wife is set on Cambridge already. I think the viaduct is on the tour.

I’d love to take the 55-300, but at one pound, that would push the bag weight over my six pound limit. I definitely could take 70. The bag has the space and I am still under the weight limit. The 100 WR pushes me up to the weight limit and and I might have enough room in the bag. What do you use the long lens for?
Ah, OK, your original post didn't mention a weight limit...

Obviously only you can judge, in the end; looks like the 55-300 weighs in the same as the 70+100WR, giving you more range and less lens changing at the cost of slower glass and no longer WR or macro. If the gorillapod (whatever its weight!) is in your limit then it may mitigate the impact of slower glass, or you might think it better to take a faster lens and rely on SR.

Here are some images I used the long lens for, while on trips (as opposed to going out solely to take photos); hence limited time, family with me, not likely to be able to go back and try again. Yes, I was gutted to notice the bit of fluff on the sensor for the NY pix... [Now edited to keep timb64 happy ]








See Flickr album here

Cheers

Jonathan

Last edited by h4yn0nnym0u5e; 02-21-2018 at 12:18 PM.
02-20-2018, 04:49 PM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by h4yn0nnym0u5e Quote
Yes, I was gutted to notice the bit of fluff on the sensor for the NY pix...








See Flickr album here

Cheers

Jonathan
Nice pictures,but why would you not want to crop out the speck on your sensor or otherwise deal with it in PP before displaying them?

Last edited by timb64; 02-23-2018 at 05:23 PM.
02-20-2018, 05:19 PM - 2 Likes   #14
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I would take the DA10-17 and DA*16-50. Leave the Sigma behind as it is bigger, heavier, and overlaps too much.

Definitely take a fast prime if you have one. I have found the FA31 and DA*55 to be very useful in dark places.

I think you'll really miss something longer. If you you have a smallish, lightish telezoom, make space for it. I found the DA55-300 indispensable on my recent UK and northern Italian trips.

Take the better tripod if you can manage it.

Some images which might resonate:

DA10-17 at Stonehenge



....and in Bath:



DA*55 in Venice



DA10-17 from the top of the campanile in St Mark's square



and in the Palazzo Ducale



in Rome with the DA10-17





and the FA31



02-20-2018, 05:27 PM - 1 Like   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by lmd91343 Quote
I need some help in choosing gear for a five week trip to Europe. This is a reward to my wife for all her hard recovery work!

We will be gone for about five weeks spanning the month of May. The tour itinerary includes London, Stratford upon Avon, York, Durham, Hadrian’s Wall, Jedburgh, Edinburgh, St. Andrews, Pitlochry, Inverness, Spean Bridge, Glasgow, Greta Green, Windermere, Liverpool, Tintern, Bristol, Bath, Stonehenge, Dover, Calais, Paris, Lucerne, St. Gothard, Venice, Florence, And Rome. We also have seven free days in London, two in Paris, and three in Rome.

As for gear, I thought about bringing my DA* 16-50/2.8, DA 10-17/3.5-4.5 fish-eye, and my just acquired Sigma 10-20/3.5. My rational is that I could have the 16-50 for general outdoor use for landscapes and points of interest. It is also WR, which is nice given the likelihood of rain. For crowded and narrow streets and indoors I would have the 10-20. For very tight places I could use the 10-17.

I have CPL filters for the non fisheye lenses. Also I have an ND grad, ND filters, split-field and a doublet close-up (canon 500d) for the 16-50.

I have a choice of two tripods: an 11kg gorilla pod or a travel giottos 8240b carbon fiber. Which would work better? I’ve never used the gorilla pod.

I want to bring my K3 with the K5 as a backup. For IR I will bring a converted Lumix P+S. I am leaving my IR modded DSLR at home.

Are these the proper items? Are f2.8 and f3.5 fast enough for indoors of cathedrals, palaces, and museums with the k3? Should I also bring a fast 50mm or 35mm?

Do I need other focal lengths? Is 50mm long enough? Should I bring the 70mm or the 100mm?


My gear list is in my signature below.
————————-

Are there any unusual or interesting places in or near London, Paris, or Rome that tourists normally don’t go? I have 12 extra days to fill.

Thank you,
Lance
1) your widest zoom
2) your fastest normal range
3) 70-200 range

monopod, add a ballhead on top if you dont have one
a small but sturdy travel tripod like --- Befree Travel Tripod Collection | Manfrotto US

a Hoya Moose Peterson Warming Circular Polarizer Filter, for your biggest lens, just hold it in front of all your lenses
A blackrapid camera strap (so comfortable)
a sling style camera bag so you don't have to lay it down, like the Lowepro fastpack 250 (this video shows the sling in front feature -
)
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