[Rondec]

St. Louis had a robust B&M camera store presence post-Wolf Ritz, offering 16 actual stores to buy actual gear. Now the are only 7, with only 4 in the immediate Metro area. But I can pre-order an FA*50/1.4 or buy a K-1 off the shelf. The question is what I get for $219.00 of sales tax on a $2,199 lens that I know I’m going to buy, because it is a pre-order.

You are lucky if the price in your local store is the same as the one at Adorama/Amazon. Usually, it is going to be higher because they don't have the same volume of sales.

As far as sales tax is concerned, it seems as though it is coming to most internet sales, so that if you live in a state which collects sales tax, online retailers will need to do so too. Regardless, that isn't your local store's fault.

The biggest reason to buy local is to support your local economy and local folks. I'm not sure if that is worth it, but from a personal standpoint, I wish there was good store that sold Pentax near where I live.

[monochrome]

The cell phone is more than a camera. I upgrade my cell phone every couple of years, but the quality of the camera in what I end up with is never on my radar. I barely use the camera in my cell phone. I expect most cell phone customers are pretty similar in this regard. The camera is a useful appendage, but not an important buying feature. If my cell phone didn't have a camera at all it wouldn't be a loss for me.
When we look at cell phone cameras, we also have to remember that the camera is a rump feature of the phone. The primary feature of cell phones seems to be the ability to send text messages and follow the Kardashians on twitter.
Regarding the race for the greatest 110 camera, both Pentax and Minolta put out pretty advanced 110 camera systems with interchangeable lenses. I don't know if it was a race, but they were both doing it.
As an aside, both failed in the market because the 110 camera customer was not interested in a quality system. As long as Aunt Martha in the back row was in focus, that was good enough. The ILC market has always gravitated to what i would call entry level quality. 35mm film was that product. The format was big enough to make a relatively grain free 8x10. That was good enough for the vast majority of users, most of whom never printed bigger than 4x6, or who shot slides. The very few who needed or wanted better gravitated towards medium format.

---------- Post added 07-11-18 at 11:12 AM ----------



You are helping support the local infrastructure.

Yes, I get that intellectually. I bought my K-1 from them. I’m completely upgrading my support system to Arca-Swiss (compatible) but I just can’t do that myself. There are too many Plate / Head / Stick combinations. I would buy RRS / Wimberley quality, so Tax is non-negligible, but I need the help.

Do I also pay a 10% premium where I don’t need the help - just on priniciple - or do I allocate purchases to where I receive support from the local infrastructure? Over time the savings might amount to one more new lens for Pentax.

I split my purchases. About 75% is local, done during weekday business hours with a single salesman by appointment. I think that’s rational and fair.

[EDIT] Over time I have referred at least a dozen members to their on line store for odd or NOS items they had listed.

[ThorSanchez]

Given that Apple is the most used "camera" on flickr, that's the given. Discussions about what you like are not relevant. Whatever you like or don't like about Apple or some other smart phone, Apple is still #1 on flickr, despite any objections you might have.

Isn't that mostly because Apple makes all of the iPhones, all of the iOS devices, so when you search on flickr all Apple devices are lumped together? Android is made by Google, and LG, and Motorola, and a dozen others. None of them with the market share to supplant the monolithic block of Apple all under one umbrella. What is the flickr share for all Android devices combined?

---------- Post added 07-11-18 at 03:07 PM ----------

The biggest reason to buy local is to support your local economy and local folks. I'm not sure if that is worth it, but from a personal standpoint, I wish there was good store that sold Pentax near where I live.

I don't know that I've ever seen anything Pentax in a local store. At best I think I'd have to go to Washington DC and spend most of a day traveleing back and forth to find somewhere that stocks Pentax gear. I'd be more than happy to support a local dealer, but none exist unless you stretch the definition of local to "within a two-hour drive each way".

[monochrome]

You are lucky if the price in your local store is the same as the one at Adorama/Amazon. Usually, it is going to be higher because they don't have the same volume of sales.

As far as sales tax is concerned, it seems as though it is coming to most internet sales, so that if you live in a state which collects sales tax, online retailers will need to do so too. Regardless, that isn't your local store's fault.

The biggest reason to buy local is to support your local economy and local folks. I'm not sure if that is worth it, but from a personal standpoint, I wish there was good store that sold Pentax near where I live.

They either try to come close to B&H or throw in things like Lexar premium SD cards to add some SPIFF value. I do know my salesman and the assistant manager, and they’ll order for me, but Pentax is not ‘available’ in the walk in and what I want is in-stock sense, and only those two people know the catalog and won’t attempt to switch me to Canon (or lately Sony).

Even though I know I’m lucky to have them, It actually takes significant extra planning and effort to buy Pentax. That’s why sometimes I just click Buy.

[reh321]

Perhaps, but if we accept this premise, then we also would have to accept that the camera market that the phone is vulching would have an almost 100% loss in sales volume.
Oh wait, that's exactly what has happened.
Now get ready for the next wave. We are already seeing cell phone cameras with dual focal length lenses, how long before some smart engineer manages to cram a "kit zoom" into a cell phone?
When that happens, and I have no doubt that it will, the low end ILC market dies, just like that.

Still no viewfinder.
There are still people like me .... I purchased a K-30 instead of a K-01 because the K-01 lacked a viewfinder - oh, and some of us also are interested in quality of the "glass"

[reh321]

Isn't that mostly because Apple makes all of the iPhones, all of the iOS devices, so when you search on flickr all Apple devices are lumped together? Android is made by Google, and LG, and Motorola, and a dozen others. None of them with the market share to supplant the monolithic block of Apple all under one umbrella. What is the flickr share for all Android devices combined?

Manufacturer is a much more appropriate division than operating system. There is no reason to lump a camera made by Samsung in with one made LG.

[reh321]

Perhaps, but if we accept this premise, then we also would have to accept that the camera market that the phone is vulching would have an almost 100% loss in sales volume.
Oh wait, that's exactly what has happened.
Now get ready for the next wave. We are already seeing cell phone cameras with dual focal length lenses, how long before some smart engineer manages to cram a "kit zoom" into a cell phone?
When that happens, and I have no doubt that it will, the low end ILC market dies, just like that.

Cell phones are very bad at stopping motion - they have problems focusing when motion is involved and they are subject to to 'rolling shutter' once they do attain focus. That will be totally unacceptable to a certain portion of the low-end ILC market.

[cmohr]

Do I sense a little bit of jealousy? Is a Rodney Dangerfield clip in line here? 'I don't get no respect."

OK then, you tell me, why when people think smart phones, they think iPhones?

Someone just gave me an iPhone 5, I'm already doing things I couldn't figure out how to do on my android LG, which has basically been related tot he trash heap. It's amazing how whenever Apple anything is mentioned the haters come out of the wood work. Something about Apple really rots their socks. Oh, ya, they hate that hippy Steve Jobs and everything he stood for. Kinda like the American right wingers still spreading the hate for Obama.

On this forum, saying "Apple" is almost as bad as saying "pentax." Noether seems to have done a damn thing that's worthwhile in the minds of some. It's curious.

Haters gonna hate.

Flickr: Camera Finder

Read it and weep.

No jealousy whatsoever.... I have always thought how funny the iphone crowd are when a new app of feature is on their phone, and are blind to the fact that is most cases android phones have had the feature for years. And my old nokia wasn't even android and it had features not seen on an iphone for a few years. I don't hate apple, their products are good, My 27in mac is proof of that, it's the blindness to feature of other smartphones by the users that I was referring to. It would be like all us here with our Pentax cameras cracking on that we have autofocus, blindly thinking that Canon and Nikon don't . I don't hate , I never said anything bad about apple.

And saying iphone is the most used camera on flickr, that's just as i said in my original post."Everybody" takes pictures today, and not just a few, but 1000's, and they have to make sure everybody else sees them the inane the boring, the relentless "selfie" those stats only reflect snapshots, not photography.

I won't weep or loose sleep over that, I just don't care

[reh321]

No jealousy whatsoever.... I have always thought how funny the iphone crowd are when a new app of feature is on their phone, and are blind to the fact that is most cases android phones have had the feature for years. And my old nokia wasn't even android and it had features not seen on an iphone for a few years. I don't hate apple, their products are good, My 27in mac is proof of that, it's the blindness to feature of other smartphones by the users that I was referring to. It would be like all us here with our Pentax cameras cracking on that we have autofocus, blindly thinking that Canon and Nikon don't . I don't hate , I never said anything bad about apple.

And saying iphone is the most used camera on flickr, that's just as i said in my original post."Everybody" takes pictures today, and not just a few, but 1000's, and they have to make sure everybody else sees them the inane the boring, the relentless "selfie" those stats only reflect snapshots, not photography.

I won't weep or loose sleep over that, I just don't care

Apple doesn't care about quality. They care about the count.

[Wheatfield]

Still no viewfinder.
There are still people like me .... I purchased a K-30 instead of a K-01 because the K-01 lacked a viewfinder - oh, and some of us also are interested in quality of the "glass"

You will just be pushed up market.

---------- Post added 07-11-18 at 04:40 PM ----------

Cell phones are very bad at stopping motion - they have problems focusing when motion is involved and they are subject to to 'rolling shutter' once they do attain focus. That will be totally unacceptable to a certain portion of the low-end ILC market.

Those few will be pushed up market.

[photoptimist]

Right, among the "The smartphone killed..." statements, the most important counterpoint, to this conversation, is that the smartphone, and the internet, revitalized photography. Even if it's not your thing, there's tons of photography on Instagram and Facebook every day by people who probably wouldn't have done so in the environment of 20 years ago.

^^^^^^^THIS!

The smartphone has not made the photography glass half empty. It's made the glass overflow with effervescent ideas and creativity like one of those mentos-in-a-soda-bottle fountains. All that imagery, so easily found can be inspiring. And the internet enables places like PF where it's so easy to connect to like-minded people and get answers to questions.

And then there's all the spill-over technology on the sensor front. The opportunity to sell a tens or hundreds of millions of sensors for the next generation of smartphones funds a lot R&D. The new ideas needed to make a tiny sensor produce an acceptable snapshot then feed into making big sensors with awesome DR and IQ. And the threat of smartphones pushes the traditional camera makers to up their game and provide better bodies and lenses.

[ThorSanchez]

Manufacturer is a much more appropriate division than operating system. There is no reason to lump a camera made by Samsung in with one made LG.

Sure, if you're comparing camera hardware. But few pick their cell phones based on camera hardware. Apple is the leading camera on flickr because lots of people like the Apple ecosystem, most aren't picking an iPhone just for its camera.

[pjsaure]

^^^^^^^THIS!

The smartphone has not made the photography glass half empty. It's made the glass overflow with effervescent ideas and creativity like one of those mentos-in-a-soda-bottle fountains. All that imagery, so easily found can be inspiring. And the internet enables places like PF where it's so easy to connect to like-minded people and get answers to questions.

Also, the smartphone simply did not kill the Big Camera. Maybe it simply shrunk it. But it will probably never replace a proper camera.

A few days ago, I had the hardest time taking a picture of some insects with my iPhone 6S. Focusing was a real pain. Would have been a breeze with my K5IIs and macro lens.
The IQ, though relatively good, is still miles behind too.

Different needs, different tools, different results. Like often, a new tool doesn't replace an older one, it compliments it. Some people still ride horses, some still shoot bows, some still use manual woodworking tools, even in professional applications.

I hate these kind of click bait titles. It puts false statements in people's minds.

[boriscleto]

Isn't that mostly because Apple makes all of the iPhones, all of the iOS devices, so when you search on flickr all Apple devices are lumped together? Android is made by Google, and LG, and Motorola, and a dozen others. None of them with the market share to supplant the monolithic block of Apple all under one umbrella. What is the flickr share for all Android devices combined?

iOS devices have 77,785 daily users according to today's Flickr stats.

Every cameraphone (Android and non Android) listed for Samsung, Motorola, LG, Google, and HTC have 17,407 daily users...You might be able to find a few hundred more users if look outside of the top 15 companies listed...

[pakinjapan]

Camera maker can still "benefit" from the smartphone market.

If you can't beat them, join them!
Open your source code, Invite people to develop mobile apps for your product, Invite or partner with people to build gadgets for your camera. etc