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07-17-2018, 06:55 AM   #1
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Potentialy a very good news for photographers in the EU

Japan-EU trade deal 'light in darkness' amid Trump's protectionism | World news | The Guardian

This could, in theory, cut down our camera and lens prices... or do I understand it wrong?

07-17-2018, 07:10 AM   #2
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Moved to General Photography as this isn't Pentax news or rumour.

Folks, please let's keep any replies non-political - thanks in advance
07-17-2018, 07:25 AM   #3
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Honestly I'm not entirely clear when the tariffs are lifted. The article talks a lot about what's being affected and makes a reference to the 8th year of the agreement I think with respect to cars. But it could be broader. In any case I'm not sure.

This seems like welcome news to those in the EU.
07-17-2018, 07:52 AM   #4
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@UncleVanya

I don't have the complete arrangement (could be several thousand pages).

But German and British media say it will introduce tariff-free trading with nearly all kind of items from beginning of 2019.
UK will be included while they are still EU members, and also during the transition period (so at least till September 2019, and probably 2+ years more.

EDIT:
It seems it will include industrial goods as well as agriculture, but not so (or with some restrictions) services.


Last edited by RKKS08; 07-17-2018 at 08:00 AM. Reason: Info added; some typing errors
07-17-2018, 07:54 AM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by RKKS08 Quote
@UncleVanya

I don't have the complete arrangement (could be several thousand pages).

But German and British media say it will introduce tariff-free trading with nearly all kind of items from beginning of 2019.
UK will be included while they are still EU members, and also during the transition time (so at least till September 2019, and probably 2+ years more.
Did the 8 year comment in the article make sense to you then? It seemed odd.
07-17-2018, 07:56 AM - 1 Like   #6
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Here is the quote:

"Once ratified by parliaments on both sides, the EU-Japan trade deal will eliminate about 99% of tariffs on Japanese goods, including on cars, from the eighth year after the deal is implemented, with tariffs scrapped on car parts immediately."
07-17-2018, 08:14 AM - 1 Like   #7
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Just looked it up.

Import tariff for Digital Cameras to the EU presently Is 4.2%.
There is additionally the import tax which replaces the V.A.T. for goods imported from non-EU countries. This is different for every EU country (for Germany 19% of the net value, called "Einfuhrumsatzsteuer").

As I understand, the new arrangement will lift the 4.2% tariff EU wide, but does not affect any import-VAT of the member countries.
07-17-2018, 08:20 AM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by RKKS08 Quote
Just looked it up.

Import tariff for Digital Cameras to the EU presently Is 4.2%.
There is additionally the import tax which replaces the V.A.T. for goods imported from non-EU countries. This is different for every EU country (for Germany 19% of the net value, called "Einfuhrumsatzsteuer").

As I understand, the new arrangement will lift the 4.2% tariff EU wide, but does not affect any import-VAT of the member countries.
thank you, I guess every percent down is good

07-17-2018, 08:21 AM - 2 Likes   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by UncleVanya Quote
Here is the quote:

"Once ratified by parliaments on both sides, the EU-Japan trade deal will eliminate about 99% of tariffs on Japanese goods, including on cars, from the eighth year after the deal is implemented, with tariffs scrapped on car parts immediately."
...we could be all dead by then!!!
VAT in Italy is 22% on non-essential goods. Apparently cameras aren't deemed essential, which IMHO is a grave oversight
07-17-2018, 08:31 AM   #10
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I must get more information (about the 8 years).

Guess is that the arrangment starts at Jan 2019, but will be implemented step-by-step.
This would make a lot of sense specially for agricultural goods.
Japan must import most of its food, but sudden tariff-free import from the EU could destroy their own farms.

The arrangement must be ratified by the parlaments of each EU country (which sometimes takes 1-2 years), but the commision can temporarily enable it before that has happened (not sure but I think the EU parlament could reject this)

EDIT: I remenber the commision enabled the EU-Canada trade deal temporarily, before ANY ratification by national parlaments had started.

---------- Post added 17-07-18 at 18:18 ----------

I think my information abot the existing tariff was all wrong.
After trying to get correct information, I gave up.

Originally there was a tariff on analog cameras of 4.2%, but none on digital ones.
Then EU tried to attach tariff to cameras able of doing video. It seems changed WTO rules forbade this.

So to find out the existing tariff for a special camera model, I would have to (online) ask the German customs.
The difficulty seems to be that digital cameras are tariff-free, but not so lenses and GPS units.

And the national import taxes have nothing to do with tariffs. These are instead of V.A.T.
The importer will pay it, and subtract this amount from his VAT debt. And add it to the price tag.
So, for the end consumer, it is just VAT.

Last edited by RKKS08; 07-17-2018 at 08:45 AM.
07-17-2018, 12:29 PM - 1 Like   #11
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If those 4.2% is the real number, then usually VAT is added on top of that...so if VAT is around 20% in a country, the final number would be a bit over 5% of the total price if I understand it correctly? So just about the right amount for stores to ignore this and add to their margin...

But what's perhaps better, if it works that way, would purchases directly from japanese stores become viable (just added freight cost?)? If so that might be a larger effect, perhaps not large enough to force local shops to lower their prices but for those who know where to look it might work...or am I wrong on the online overseas purchase part?
07-17-2018, 02:29 PM   #12
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Davidsladek You are from Surrey England? It is a Japan/EU deal, what about Brexit? Or is this too political?
07-17-2018, 02:48 PM   #13
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Brexit is not going to happen all at once (although some politicians would like that). There will be a transition period and if the current version of the UK Government’s deal gets accepted then quite close alignment with the EU.
07-17-2018, 03:01 PM   #14
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Its very good news to me, hope this deal wont be dropped. EU citizens cant fear of jobs moving to japan because they are not a low wage country and I like japanese cars, hifi, cameras, etc. so these product should see a drop in consumer price of around 10% (for non-specific tariff products, like cars)

QuoteOriginally posted by LensBeginner Quote
VAT in Italy is 22% on non-essential goods. Apparently cameras aren't deemed essential, which IMHO is a grave oversight
VAT will still be applied on all products even under free trade agreement, and probably gray market camera imports from Japan and Taiwan will still come cheaper than local market because of VAT.

QuoteOriginally posted by AndrewN Quote
Brexit is not going to happen all at once (although some politicians would like that). There will be a transition period and if the current version of the UK Government’s deal gets accepted then quite close alignment with the EU.
We can only hope they will not miss to get a free trade agreement similar to what exists with Norway, Switzerland, and now Japan as well
07-17-2018, 04:50 PM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by DutchGonzo Quote
Davidsladek You are from Surrey England? It is a Japan/EU deal, what about Brexit? Or is this too political?
Haha, I do indeed live in Surrey, but we're still in the EU and will stay for a few years ot seems. And, more importantly, I am a European 'imigrant' here and can chose to 'flee' if cameras get cheaper on the continent
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