Help me overcome my fear of grain :)

**goatsNdonkey** · 10-26-2018, 08:45 AM - **1 Like**

I'm not sure that the kind of digital artifacts that the original poster asked about can even be called "grain." Perhaps they are inevitably less pleasing than actual film grain can be. Perhaps, post-processing using algorithms mean to imitate film grain might obscure any unsavory digitalness in them. Also, wouldn't shooting at a lower iso limit grain-like noise?

If one actually wants to acquire an appreciation of grain, I'd suggest shooting some film for a while, perhaps using a film known and appreciated for its grain, something comparable to the Tri-X of some decades ago. Any enlargement, 5x7 or above, had obvious grain. A black-and-white film with traditional grain might be best for that study.

An alternate technique might be shooting any film, including color, but experimenting with various conversions of the scans. If the viewing size is the same, cropping essentially is the same as enlarging, and at some point begins to enhance the perception of grain.

Here is an example of something I shot earlier this fall using Fujicolor 100, a reasonably fine-grained film. IFrom the color scanned file, I made a Black-and-White (colors totally desaturated) version. Then I decided to make a square crop which was also a bit shorter than the original horizontal rectangle. Part of what makes the central flower blossom pop more than the surroundings is that the sharpness of the grain, just becoming perceptible in the crop, feels like texture on the petals and the petal edges. The uncropped version of the same image does not have this quality. Grain would seem to have a wide range of possible effects, and perhaps this could apply to the digital cousins of grain.

Zinnias.

Atlas 35 Deluxe Rangefinder, with fixed f2.8 45mm Colour Luna lens -- 1/300 sec, f/8
Fujicolor 100 film
Dev'l & scans by Dwayne's Photo
B&W conversion, cropping, etc., by me

.

Winder · 10-26-2018, 06:57 PM - **1 Like**

Files from the K-1 are phenomenal. I use to shoot a lot of TMAX 3200 when shooting for bands and everyone wanted the grainy Rolling Stone magazine look. I do like grain, but I have a hard time adding it back into my images for that creative effect. I need to be trying to create a film look to add grain back in and even then I want to take it back out. I feel your pain. I don't think I can go back to APS-C or m4/3.

ASheffield · 11-05-2018, 01:43 AM

Originally posted by bertwert

If you look at this image you can see it's full of grain, but it is still a good photo

With a background in agriculture, this was also my first thought. I was about to bust out my sorghum knowledge to help OP overcome the fear.

**goatsNdonkey** · 11-06-2018, 07:43 PM

Originally posted by ASheffield

With a background in agriculture, this was also my first thought. I was about to bust out my sorghum knowledge to help OP overcome the fear.

Are you suggesting that gluten might be the problem?

**Kerrowdown** · 11-07-2018, 02:57 AM

Originally posted by awscreo

Help me overcome my fear of grain

Embrace the stuff... I grew up with it always being there in the B&W film days.

On occasion I still add various levels in PP, to the modern day "super clean" files just to be nostalgic, I feel still that they make for great images.

**gaweidert** · 11-07-2018, 09:52 AM

Grain in the photograph can add a lot of atmosphere to a photograph and be a good thing.

Maybe this will relax you a bit. This was shot in my backyard 4 years ago using my K5-IIs at ISO 1600. Pretty smooth. The K5 line uses a 16 MP sensor so hopefully the GRII will look similar. The K5 cameras are low light/high ISO monsters and I still think them better than my K1's in that regard. Just a personal opinion based upon my experiences with both cameras.

awscreo · 11-09-2018, 03:02 PM

Originally posted by gaweidert

Grain in the photograph can add a lot of atmosphere to a photograph and be a good thing.

Maybe this will relax you a bit. This was shot in my backyard 4 years ago using my K5-IIs at ISO 1600. Pretty smooth. The K5 line uses a 16 MP sensor so hopefully, the GRII will look similar. The K5 cameras are low light/high ISO monsters and I still think them better than my K1's in that regard. Just a personal opinion based upon my experiences with both cameras.

Doubt GR II has the same high iso performance as K5. Curious, could you share a 3200 iso raw taken with K5? I've never held the camera, would be interesting to compare to the K-1 files

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10-26-2018, 08:45 AM - 1 Like	#31
goatsNdonkey Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2016 Location: Fulton County, Illinois Posts: 3,727	I'm not sure that the kind of digital artifacts that the original poster asked about can even be called "grain." Perhaps they are inevitably less pleasing than actual film grain can be. Perhaps, post-processing using algorithms mean to imitate film grain might obscure any unsavory digitalness in them. Also, wouldn't shooting at a lower iso limit grain-like noise? If one actually wants to acquire an appreciation of grain, I'd suggest shooting some film for a while, perhaps using a film known and appreciated for its grain, something comparable to the Tri-X of some decades ago. Any enlargement, 5x7 or above, had obvious grain. A black-and-white film with traditional grain might be best for that study. An alternate technique might be shooting any film, including color, but experimenting with various conversions of the scans. If the viewing size is the same, cropping essentially is the same as enlarging, and at some point begins to enhance the perception of grain. Here is an example of something I shot earlier this fall using Fujicolor 100, a reasonably fine-grained film. IFrom the color scanned file, I made a Black-and-White (colors totally desaturated) version. Then I decided to make a square crop which was also a bit shorter than the original horizontal rectangle. Part of what makes the central flower blossom pop more than the surroundings is that the sharpness of the grain, just becoming perceptible in the crop, *feels like* texture on the petals and the petal edges. The uncropped version of the same image does not have this quality. Grain would seem to have a wide range of possible effects, and perhaps this could apply to the digital cousins of grain. Zinnias. Atlas 35 Deluxe Rangefinder, with fixed f2.8 45mm Colour Luna lens -- 1/300 sec, f/8 Fujicolor 100 film Dev'l & scans by Dwayne's Photo B&W conversion, cropping, etc., by me .

10-26-2018, 06:57 PM - 1 Like	#32
Winder Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Tennessee Posts: 6,617	Files from the K-1 are phenomenal. I use to shoot a lot of TMAX 3200 when shooting for bands and everyone wanted the grainy Rolling Stone magazine look. I do like grain, but I have a hard time adding it back into my images for that creative effect. I need to be trying to create a film look to add grain back in and even then I want to take it back out. I feel your pain. I don't think I can go back to APS-C or m4/3.

11-05-2018, 01:43 AM	#33
ASheffield Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Raleigh, North Carolina, USA Photos: Albums Posts: 329	Originally posted by bertwert If you look at this image you can see it's full of grain, but it is still a good photo With a background in agriculture, this was also my first thought. I was about to bust out my sorghum knowledge to help OP overcome the fear.

11-06-2018, 07:43 PM	#34
goatsNdonkey Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2016 Location: Fulton County, Illinois Posts: 3,727	Originally posted by ASheffield With a background in agriculture, this was also my first thought. I was about to bust out my sorghum knowledge to help OP overcome the fear. Are you suggesting that gluten might be the problem?

11-07-2018, 02:57 AM	#35
Kerrowdown PEG Moderator Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Highlands of Scotland... "Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand" - William Blake Photos: Gallery Posts: 57,818	Originally posted by awscreo Help me overcome my fear of grain Embrace the stuff... I grew up with it always being there in the B&W film days. On occasion I still add various levels in PP, to the modern day "super clean" files just to be nostalgic, I feel still that they make for great images.

11-09-2018, 03:02 PM	#37
awscreo Veteran Member Join Date: May 2016 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,722 Original Poster	Originally posted by gaweidert Grain in the photograph can add a lot of atmosphere to a photograph and be a good thing. Maybe this will relax you a bit. This was shot in my backyard 4 years ago using my K5-IIs at ISO 1600. Pretty smooth. The K5 line uses a 16 MP sensor so hopefully, the GRII will look similar. The K5 cameras are low light/high ISO monsters and I still think them better than my K1's in that regard. Just a personal opinion based upon my experiences with both cameras. Doubt GR II has the same high iso performance as K5. Curious, could you share a 3200 iso raw taken with K5? I've never held the camera, would be interesting to compare to the K-1 files