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08-23-2018, 08:59 AM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by JimmyDranox Quote
Everyone here seems to think that Pentax will be happy to be left alone, as the only one manufacturer without a competitive mirrorless camera. I think that your are wrong. Maybe I am wrong, but I think that Pentax is already working in that field. And the fact that they didn't realise no new DSLR in the last period is a sign. And those statements made by Pentax representatives reminds me about other statements, about FF camera, before the release of K1. More, even this discution is similar with those about the necessity, or not, of a FF camera in Pentax line, in that time.

And, most probably, I will receive a lot of flak now, as I did then, when I said, ''FF or dead''.
Pentax executies in the past said they would go mirrorless when the technology was right. They never said "never". If they can get a sensor and it meets the specs they are aiming for, they will come out with a mirrorless model. With Pentax it's always about being able to provide better value per dollar with the best IQ. When Pentax goes mirrorless it will be like the K-1. Late to the party, not as many bells and whistles, but a good solid functional camera with the best IQ for the dollar. The last word on mirrorless was they couldn't get a sensor.

As a small company, Pentax has always been held back by component availability. What they do with the components when they get them has always been top shelf.

08-23-2018, 09:02 AM - 2 Likes   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by BarryE Quote
I don't use vinyl, but I see Linn Sondek are still doing well ;-) There are places in markets for alternative approaches, and a race by all the big guns to mirrorless may leave Pentax in a healthier position ...
Linn designs and markets more than just turntables, including streaming network players. Pentax needs to do more than produce DSLRs unless they want to be relegated to serving only hobbyists. The real issue, unfortunately, is that Ricoh can't or won't, fund the Pentax brand to bring products to market on a timely basis and provide marketing and technical support they deserve.
08-23-2018, 09:04 AM - 1 Like   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by mille19 Quote
It looks like Pentax and the rest are going to have to up their game.

Nikon Z7 review: hands on first look - Amateur Photographer
Different product than Pentax - Pentax isn't even in that market (MILC).

Also, quite a different price point than Pentax products.

I don't see how this even affects the Pentax market at all.

Did someone start a thread over at DPR saying "let's all go in and create threads to troll Pentax forums"? Because that is what all these new threads about Pentax doom are sounding like. Except they are not very well thought of, and some have false (may I say unintelligent?) arguments - like this one. As proven above, this release doesn't affect Pentax at all, Pentax is in a different photography market.

But I thank you for helping the forum's post count objective for the month
08-23-2018, 09:14 AM - 1 Like   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by JimmyDranox Quote
Everyone here seems to think that Pentax will be happy to be left alone, as the only one manufacturer without a competitive mirrorless camera. I think that your are wrong. Maybe I am wrong, but I think that Pentax is already working in that field. And the fact that they didn't realise no new DSLR in the last period is a sign. And those statements made by Pentax representatives reminds me about other statements, about FF camera, before the release of K1. More, even this discution is similar with those about the necessity, or not, of a FF camera in Pentax line, in that time.

And, most probably, I will receive a lot of flak now, as I did then, when I said, ''FF or dead''.
Most likely they have several research projects, including large sensor mirrorless. But that doesn't mean they plan to launch a mirrorless system in the near future.
While I'm not privy to internal information, I don't think they'd be doing it - they'd first want to complete the DFA lens line, and likely update the APS-C a bit. And... they said they're concentrating on DSLRs, for now.

I received a lot of flak when I said, "they're not planning any FF, for now", then, "they're preparing a FF".
Now I'm saying: "they're not planning any mirrorless, for now".


Last edited by Kunzite; 08-23-2018 at 09:46 AM. Reason: wrong word
08-23-2018, 10:29 AM   #35
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And the price. Wow.
08-23-2018, 10:58 AM - 1 Like   #36
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I guess the question is one of what you need. These two cameras feel like they fit the bill of "mirrorless," whatever that means. What they aren't is tiny (slightly smaller than a D750), super fast (same frame rate as D850), cheap (3000 dollar price tag), or professional (one card slot). Auto focus is probably better than the D850s with regard to tracking in good light, but the D850 should do better in low light, at least with regard to specs.

If you are salivating for an EVF and don't care what it costs, then either of these cameras should fit the bill. On the other hand, if you are a landscape or portrait photographer, you may save considerable funds by going with a little older sensor, like those found in the D810 or K-1 and skipping mirrorless for the moment.
08-23-2018, 11:09 AM - 2 Likes   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by mille19 Quote
It looks like Pentax and the rest are going to have to up their game.

Nikon Z7 review: hands on first look - Amateur Photographer
Why????
08-23-2018, 11:23 AM   #38
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If Toyota releases their hydrogen car, does Pentax have to up their game? If Apple releases a new iPhone does Pentax have to up their game? Where is this magic line where Pentax has to up their game, And why is mirrorless on the pentad side of the line. Anyone who wants mirrorless, including many forum members already has it. Especially if there's a new mount involved when the camera is released, it will be to steal sales from the others, like the K-1 did. But Pentax doesn't have to up their game to grow. They are growing in any case.

For most of us, MILC cameras are the other side of the line. It doesn't matter how good they get, they aren't what we want. The only marketing factor Pentax should be looking at with mirrorless is "How many customers can we steal from other manufacturers with this product?"

They definitely can't sell me, and a lot of others one.

I kind of admire the guys still shooting 4x5. It's nice to see some folks who won't compromise image quality for modern convenience. The guys who think they have to have every bell and whistle in the book, not so much.

08-23-2018, 11:40 AM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
I was thinking... this new Nikon Z isn't quite the game changer.
It doesn't look bad, but then it doesn't put Pentax in a much more difficult position, compared with the previous Nikon products (especially the D850).
Its frame rate when you want a live view stream is of just 5.5fps, and the buffer is of 18 14-bit RAWs. Yes, it should empty its buffer considerably faster, but...

IMO Pentax is no more "left behind" than it was yesterday.
But Nikon is in a stronger position - their users are less likely to wander off.
08-23-2018, 11:48 AM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
But Nikon is in a stronger position - their users are less likely to wander off.
And Nikon wasn't in a stronger position yesterday? And users wandering in the search of a mirrorless didn't had good options yesterday?

I'm curious about the effect, there will likely be some (visible on the CIPA data) but I bet it won't be anything dramatic.
08-23-2018, 12:12 PM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
And Nikon wasn't in a stronger position yesterday? And users wandering in the search of a mirrorless didn't had good options yesterday?

I'm curious about the effect, there will likely be some (visible on the CIPA data) but I bet it won't be anything dramatic.
Nikon users looking for FF MILC yesterday had only one option - to leave Nikon; that would make Nikon 1 customer weaker. Exactly as I and Pentax are today; if I were determined to get an APS-C MILC with EVF my only choice is to leave Pentax. I might use Canon or Sony, but I would never purchase another Pentax. If Pentax amazed shocked all of us tonight and announced what I call a K-07 {K-70 mechanism in a MILC case plus EVF} then my choices would change over-night ... Pentax would gain one sale right away and retain the potential for other sales to me in the future.
08-23-2018, 12:15 PM   #42
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Pentax is in a good position to start a ML production very quickly, compared with Nikon. Long experience with IBIS, for both APS-C and FF, experience with adaptor from K mount lenses to ML camera, and even the Q camera experience.

There was a problem with sensors, but now Pentax can take sensors from Towerjazz, like Nikon did it, with good results.

About the slow pace of lenses realise in the late one year or two, I had seen some discution on this forum. A good reason would be that the efort was directed to ML lenses.

So, I would not be surprised if we will see some new Pentax ML cameras next year, both FF and APS-C.

Lets remember that Pentax was the 3rd camera manufacturer some years ago. Next, the 4th, and now, Fuji, Olympus and Panasonic, all have more modern cameras than Pentax. And if somebody is not bothered if Pentax will compete with Lomo, I am not with him.

I think and hope that Pentax can do much better than today.
08-23-2018, 12:28 PM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Most likely they have several research projects, including large sensor mirrorless. But that doesn't mean they plan to launch a mirrorless system in the near future.
Clearly they wouldn't have been able to say there were no appropriate sensors available to them, if thy hadn't looked into mirrorless.
08-23-2018, 12:38 PM   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by JimmyDranox Quote
About the slow pace of lenses realise in the late one year or two, I had seen some discution on this forum. A good reason would be that the efort was directed to ML lenses.
This is a good, logical (even if optimistic) supposition - except they said they're not doing it (for now).
08-23-2018, 01:02 PM   #45
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With the high price, size and weight of the 35, 50, 24-70 and manual 58 I doubt they will sell many Z lenses. I believe the FTZ adapter will be very popular. Actually I believe it would not make much difference if they bundled and welded the FTZ adapter to the camera. That said, I cant stop dreaming of what the Pentax K-01 should have been (the lack of VF being the most serious issue). I hope Pentax understands the obvious benefits of not needing to develop another mount. Pentax should make at least one K-01 successor with EVF, maby even two. APS-C + FF.
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